Where should XC serve?

[Emyr]

1. Motherwell
2. Lockerbie
3. Carlisle
4. Settle
5. Skipton
6. Shipley (for Bradford)
7. Leeds City
8. Wakefield Westgate
9. Rotherham Cen
10. Sheffield
11. Chesterfield
12. Derby Midland
13. East Mids Pkwy
14. Loughborough
15. Leicester
16. Kettering
17. Wellingborough
18. Bedford Midland
19. Bletchley
20. Biecester Town
21. Oxford
22. Reading
23. Wokingham
24. Farnborough North
25. Guildford
26. Redhill
27. Gatwick Airport

That's a lot of stops for a long-distance express train.

Given a 500mile route, how much of that will be spent at 100mph+, and how many drivers are you expecting?

Try

1. Glasgow
2. Carlisle
3. Sheffield
4. Milton Keynes
5. Oxford
6. Gatwick

 

[LLivery]

Can I ask why?

Just because its a service like Nottingham to Cardiff or Birmingham to Stansted in my eyes, and because it does go across the country. I'm not saying it should be CrossCountry operated though, just that it could work. But then again I'd look at the former Central Citylink lines and Leeds to Nottingham route and maybe merge with TransPennine. A kind of Semi-fast franchise.
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That's a lot of stops for a long-distance express train.

Given a 500mile route, how much of that will be spent at 100mph+, and how many drivers are you expecting?

Try

1. Glasgow
2. Carlisle
3. Sheffield
4. Milton Keynes
5. Oxford
6. Gatwick

Well I did say not all stations for all services, and the Aberdeen to Penzance service has quite a few stops too. For me its about connecting regions, not about Virgins idea of only stopping in major cities and sod the rest unless we have to.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't know if its been said before but what about Galsgow Central - Gatwick Airport? Calling at Motherwell, Lockerbie, Carlisle, Settle, Skipton, Shipley (for Bradford), Leeds City, Wakefield Westgate, Rotherham Cen, Sheffield, Chesterfield, Derby Midland, East Mids Pkwy, Loughborough, Leicester, Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford Midland, Bletchley, Biecester Town, Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Farnborough North, Guildford, Redhill.

Not all stations all the time but you get the idea. With people wanting InterCity services on the Varsity, this might work well.

No. I don’t get the idea. It wont work either. Sorry. Can’t recall hearing much about intercity services on the varsity line either tbh.

You are just duplicating services that offer faster connections to the same places for no real reason. Also Why the S&C? It is lovely to look at but it is slow, serves no one and simply makes this pointless journey pointlessly longer! Your plan would simply tie up stock that could be used elsewhere on the XC route to more effect.

I give up.

 

[Emyr]

No-one wants to catch a long-distance stopper unless they have to.

A Skipton - Gatwick journey would be better as Skipton-Leeds, Leeds - London, [some kind of cross-london transfer], London - Gatwick.

This ignores the fact that a Skipton traveller would be more likely to fly from Manchester, Leeds/Bradford, East Mids, Teeside, John Lennon or Glasgow.

 

[DarloRich]

Well I did say not all stations for all services, and the Aberdeen to Penzance service has quite a few stops too. For me its about connecting regions, not about Virgins idea of only stopping in major cities and sod the rest unless we have to.

becuase that is where the money is!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aslo Virgin didnt set the franchise boundaries or stopping patterns. As i said people need to understand that Cross Country ISNT the same as Country wide

 

[FQ]

I'm someone who thinks Norwich to Liverpool would work with XC

I beg to differ for 1 reason. It would end up going from 2 158s (4 car) to a single 170 (2/3 car) probably.

 

[LLivery]

No. I don’t get the idea. It wont work either. Sorry. Can’t recall hearing much about intercity services on the varsity line either tbh.

You are just duplicating services that offer faster connections to the same places for no real reason. Also Why the S&C? It is lovely to look at but it is slow, serves no one and simply makes this pointless journey pointlessly longer! Your plan would simply tie up stock that could be used elsewhere on the XC route to more effect.

I give up.

It was just an idea, nothing more. Also NR are looking at 125mph for Varsity and the East West website also mentions InterCity. I wasn't expecting anyone to actually do the whole route more of lots of people doing parts of it. But I accept everyone point.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Turns out my prediction was correct!

I beg to differ for 1 reason. It would end up going from 2 158s (4 car) to a single 170 (2/3 car) probably.

How? It's not like XC have spare 170s lying around they could implement if they took over the route tomorrow. Surely it would end up with XC getting some of the 158s from EMT? Granted you could probably attempt some cascading to and fro but the only TOC I can think of who'd even possibly want take some 158s for 170s is ScotRail, who of course are some what infamous for their slack fleet as it is!

 

[FQ]

How? It's not like XC have spare 170s lying around they could implement if they took over the route tomorrow. Surely it would end up with XC getting some of the 158s from EMT? Granted you could probably attempt some cascading to and fro but the only TOC I can think of who'd even possibly want take some 158s for 170s is ScotRail, who of course are some what infamous for their slack fleet as it is!

Each time I pass Tysley depot on the train to Birmingham there are at least 6 170s in XC doing nothing, and that is including peak times. Agreed, if XC did get it they probably just hire EMT 158s.

 

[backontrack]

How about:
Inverness-Aviemore-Kingussie-Pitlochry-Perth-Stirling-Motherwell-Carlisle-Lancaster-Preston-Wigan North Western-Manchester Oxford Road-Manchester Piccadilly-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham?

Lancaster to serve Barrow, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[sprinterguy]

Each time I pass Tysley depot on the train to Birmingham there are at least 6 170s in XC doing nothing, and that is including peak times.

There really aren't that many sitting around on Tyseley during the peak, and I pass there twice a day at 8:30am and 5:30pm, barring anything that might be getting worked on out of sight in "the factory" at the time. During the evening peak there normally only seems to be one 2-car XC unit sitting in the stabling sidings.

 

[Manchester77]

Oxford Road instead of Piccadilly, yadda yadda yadda.

Why what's the advantages of MCO? Less onward destinations, no metrolink connection, no taxi area, most people would probably have to get off here and change for a train to go one stop to the main station.

 

[backontrack]

Why what's the advantages of MCO? Less onward destinations, no metrolink connection, no taxi area, most people would probably have to get off here and change for a train to go one stop to the main station.

I thought that it would help battle congestion. But you're right; I'll change it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How about:
Inverness-Aviemore-Kingussie-Pitlochry-Perth-Stirling-Motherwell-Carlisle-Lancaster-Wigan North Western-Manchester Oxford Road-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham?

Lancaster to serve Barrow, Oxford Road instead of Piccadilly, yadda yadda yadda.

Why what's the advantages of MCO? Less onward destinations, no metrolink connection, no taxi area, most people would probably have to get off here and change for a train to go one stop to the main station.

Further, why does it omit the second busiest intermediate station on the route, Preston? Offers connections to Blackpool, Blackburn, stations to Colne and Ormskirk, as well as over 4m passengers per annum in their own right.

 

[backontrack]

Further, why does it omit the second busiest intermediate station on the route, Preston? Offers connections to Blackpool, Blackburn, stations to Colne and Ormskirk, as well as over 4m passengers per annum in their own right.

I actually forgot Preston somehow.
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But other than that, is it a goer? You'll probably complain about avoiding Glasgow, but I think that works. Any less direct and it'd become Scotrail, only run by a Voyager and not calling at Gleneagles.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But other than that, is it a goer? You'll probably complain about avoiding Glasgow, but I think that works. Any less direct and it'd become Scotrail, only run by a Voyager and not calling at Gleneagles.

One of very few sane ideas to some from threads of this genus is the northern half of what you propose, I wholeheartedly think you could justify Stirling (perhaps Perth)-Cumbernauld-(Mossend)-Motherwell-Carlisle; however I'm not sure how far you could justify south thereof. Certainly better than the usual ideas like St Austell-Largs via Thetford however

 

[swt_passenger]

People seem to be completely ignoring that the XC franchise is basically defined as longer distance routes centred on, and passing through, Birmingham New St.

How the idea of a round the houses south coast all shacks stopper fits into that I have absolutely no idea... :roll:

Penzance > Bristol > Weymouth > Brighton > Dover is completely ridiculous.

 

[backontrack]

One of very few sane ideas to some from threads of this genus is the northern half of what you propose, I wholeheartedly think you could justify Stirling (perhaps Perth)-Cumbernauld-(Mossend)-Motherwell-Carlisle; however I'm not sure how far you could justify south thereof. Certainly better than the usual ideas like St Austell-Largs via Thetford however

I thought that Nottingham was the best place to go. Serves Manchester, Preston etc, then the Midlands. With one change, there's Brum, London (from Stoke), Sheffield (from Derby), Leeds, Lincoln (from Nottingham), and the North East (from Manchester, but takes a while). Anywhere further south in one go would be too much.

Maybe Alliance Rail Holdings started out in this thread.

 

[Tomnick]

People seem to be completely ignoring that the XC franchise is basically defined as longer distance routes centred on, and passing through, Birmingham New St.

How the idea of a round the houses south coast all shacks stopper fits into that I have absolutely no idea... :roll:

Penzance > Bristol > Weymouth > Brighton > Dover is completely ridiculous.

...and I'm equally at a loss to understand how Liverpool - Norwich would fit well with them either, being unavoidably centred around Nottingham (the only real option for traincrew relief, and the sensible place to attach/detach the strengthening portions) where XC don't have a traincrew presence of any sort!

 

[backontrack]

...and I'm equally at a loss to understand how Liverpool - Norwich would fit well with them either, being unavoidably centred around Nottingham (the only real option for traincrew relief, and the sensible place to attach/detach the strengthening portions) where XC don't have a traincrew presence of any sort!

Brum-Notts-Norwich?

 

[Tomnick]

Brum-Notts-Norwich?

A bit circuitous for through passengers, and does nothing to compensate for the loss of through journeys across Nottingham on the existing corridor. Still not sure it'd work from a traincrew point of view either, without an XC depot at Notts!

 

[Emyr]

Brum-Notts-Norwich?

Would this duplicate or replace part of the Liverpool - Norwich service? Would your suggestion reduce the total number of changes for passengers?

 

[backontrack]

Would this duplicate or replace part of the Liverpool - Norwich service? Would your suggestion reduce the total number of changes for passengers?

Hey, it wasn't a suggestion. Just asking if Tomnick would be OK with it being an XC route if it was Brum-Notts-Norwich, using his logic.

And it would probably replace part of it, from Nottingham to Norwich.

 

[FQ]

Hey, it wasn't a suggestion. Just asking if Tomnick would be OK with it being an XC route if it was Brum-Notts-Norwich, using his logic.

And it would probably replace part of it, from Nottingham to Norwich.

I guess it would be ok but, correct me if I am wrong but would going XC to Ely and then onto Norwich be quicker that that?

 

[backontrack]

I guess it would be ok but, correct me if I am wrong but would going XC to Ely and then onto Norwich be quicker that that?

It would be. So in the end, why bother?

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, and that's exactly my argument against transferring Liverpool - Norwich to XC: why bother? The possibility of a more efficient operation (and that only with a fair chunk of recruitment and training first) at the north-west end of the route would be far outweighed by the lack of traincrew at Nottingham.

 

[backontrack]

Indeed, and that's exactly my argument against transferring Liverpool - Norwich to XC: why bother? The possibility of a more efficient operation (and that only with a fair chunk of recruitment and training first) at the north-west end of the route would be far outweighed by the lack of traincrew at Nottingham.

I agree with this; it's certainly better than the argument that if it doesn't serve Birmingham, it's not CrossCountry. See my Inverness-Nottingham idea.

 

[FQ]

How about a Sheffield-London Paddington/Marylebone going Sheffield-Chesterfield-Derby-Burton-On-Trent-Tamworth-Birmingham New Street-Leamington Spa-Banbury-Bicester North-London Marylebone/Paddington.

If not that then maybe re-instate the XC services to London.

 

[Metobusfan]

Be nice to see xc going back to Brighton

 

[CheshireCrusty]

People seem to be completely ignoring that the XC franchise is basically defined as longer distance routes centred on, and passing through, Birmingham New St.

That is the problem with XC - it only effectively serves passengers who wish to travel to Birmingham. I now tend to use the car or route via Newport for Manchester-Bristol and route via London for Manchester - Reading (faster and cheaper).

My proposal would be to strengthen the Manchester to South West services with a routing via Crewe, Shrewsbury, [Ludlow], Hereford, Gloucester, Bristol, preferably calling at Manchester Airport and Wilmslow plus Bristol Parkway.