Where should XC serve?

[Anvil1984]

When the Pennines are electrified there will be a load of 185s sat doing nothing as First Transpennine Express would have no need for them.
Cross Country could take about 35-40 of them and make about 3/4 of them 4 car. Then they could run the Nottingham-Cardiff trains as 4 car and the Stanstead Airport-Birmingham New Street 4 car. Also XC could buy a lot of DMUs like 180s but more modern to replace the class 220s and 221s so they can go to Booths. That way XC could order about 10 5 car ones and about 50 6 car ones.
It would really improve the amount of passengers who would like to travel as it would have much more room and less noise.

Now you are suggesting send less than 20 year old trains for scrap...... REALLY don't you wonder why people don't take your ideas seriously. Quite a lot of passengers don't mind the Voyagers hence the loadings they have already XC is for commuter travel not enthusiast travel

The 185s will find new homes easily. There are parts of TPE network which aren't being wired for a start and certain Northern route could use the upgrade too but that's for another thread

 

[Qwerty133]

When the Pennines are electrified there will be a load of 185s sat doing nothing as First Transpennine Express would have no need for them.
Cross Country could take about 35-40 of them and make about 3/4 of them 4 car. Then they could run the Nottingham-Cardiff trains as 4 car and the Stanstead Airport-Birmingham New Street 4 car. Also XC could buy a lot of DMUs like 180s but more modern to replace the class 220s and 221s so they can go to Booths. That way XC could order about 10 5 car ones and about 50 6 car ones.
It would really improve the amount of passengers who would like to travel as it would have much more room and less noise.

Voyagers are good trains, there are a number of trains I'd like to see go to Booths (the 153s), but I understand it's not yet possible and I hope voyagers are in service for at least another 20 or 30 years.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but when the Heathrow west curve has been finished could we see an extension of the Reading terminators?

 

[Class 170101]

I think most of us can assume that bringing loco hauled MK2's and MK3's back into use on XC services is highly unlikely. I suppose it's possible that XC could gain a few HST's from GW when the London-Bristol line electrification is complete in 2017, but the HST's will be 40 years old by then! Some of them are starting to show their age as it is and as they age further, they are only going to require more maintenance.

As I have said elsewhere on this board, I reckon they will last until the mid 2020s when HS2 begins operation after that I consider them unlikely to remain in regular service (charters maybe). Even before then leasing charges will need to reflect the lower availability that is likely to occur due to their age, maybe a 75 to 80% availability from a fleet of HSTs.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If there was a list of train classes for for going to Booths, all the classes of Pacer imho would have to go at the top of the list!

 

[luke1420]

I would like to see XC run along the North Wales line maybe Nottingham-Llandudno instead of Liverpool. which would then give a free path for another TPE to run to Liverpool maybe if the Nottingham service where not running the route.

 

[fowler9]

I would like to see XC run along the North Wales line maybe Nottingham-Llandudno instead of Liverpool. which would then give a free path for another TPE to run to Liverpool maybe if the Nottingham service where not running the route.

I can see where you are coming from but it leaves Liverpool with even less destinations than it has now. It is still a pretty big city..

 

[luke1420]

i have to say i do feel that Liverpool should have some more direct connections to places. maybe train's to the southwest, Wales and Scotland? currently you have to change at Birmingham, Warrington or Preston to get to these places.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Voyagers are good trains, there are a number of trains I'd like to see go to Booths (the 153s), but I understand it's not yet possible and I hope voyagers are in service for at least another 20 or 30 years.

Realistically the 4 car voyagers are a capacity constraint. If XC could displace some of them it would allow a degree of doubling up to 8. There are some locations admittedly where that would require SDO, but small price to pay. I personally think the 153s have a place still, but only on lightly used branches. The sooner they are gone from the Derby - Crewe service (and it gets extended to Nottingham) the better.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Add Hull back to the XC network. South west services split/join at Sheff for Hull and North East. Fairly easy with Voyagers.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Realistically the 4 car voyagers are a capacity constraint. If XC could displace some of them it would allow a degree of doubling up to 8. There are some locations admittedly where that would require SDO, but small price to pay. I personally think the 153s have a place still, but only on lightly used branches. The sooner they are gone from the Derby - Crewe service (and it gets extended to Nottingham) the better.

Are Merdian intermediate coaches in anyway compatible with Voyagers? If they are could extra coaches be ordered to strengthen all 4 car voyagers to 5 car?

 

[Rich McLean]

Are Merdian intermediate coaches in anyway compatible with Voyagers? If they are could extra coaches be ordered to strengthen all 4 car voyagers to 5 car?

Not currently. The 220/221s use Alstom software, while the 222s use Bombardier Software

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Not currently. The 220/221s use Alstom software, while the 222s use Bombardier Software

If that's the only thing stopping them from being compatible could new software be written that would work with all 3 classes?

 

[Rich McLean]

If that's the only thing stopping them from being compatible could new software be written that would work with all 3 classes?

That would be up to the TOCs and Bombardier. Remember, this just can't be changed willy nilly. You would have to change the software for the whole 22x fleet, to something more up to date, and that would cost lots of £££ and someone would have to pick up the bill. Once you change that software, 221s etc would no longer be able to couple up with a 390 for a rescue

 

[Rapidash]

How about Plymouth/Paignton to Cardiff direct? There are huge numbers of Welsh expats and tourists in Devon, and the one from Paignton is very well used from what I've seen of it. One of the few IC services where everyone doesn't jump off at Exeter!

Infact, there's very few places in the South/South East I can get to without a couple of changes. Plymouth - Brighton/Bournemouth/Norwich etc? Whats about the'Exeter to Eastbourne that National Express Coaches has?

Fantasy land is goooooo.

 

[adrock1976]

How about reinstating the calls at Didcot Parkway?

It is a crazy idea that the ICXC services pass through here without stopping, and would provide better connectivity with another intercity route i.e the ICGW services to Wales, Bristol, and Devon & Cornwall.

In peace

Adam

 

[FQ]

How about reinstating the calls at Didcot Parkway?

It is a crazy idea that the ICXC services pass through here without stopping, and would provide better connectivity with another intercity route i.e the ICGW services to Wales, Bristol, and Devon & Cornwall.

In peace

Adam

I have been thinking exactly the same thing.

It would definitely improve it as currently you either need to change at Oxford for a Great Western 'cart' or go straight through to Reading.

Although it is Arriva so...

 

[CC 72100]

How about Plymouth/Paignton to Cardiff direct? There are huge numbers of Welsh expats and tourists in Devon, and the one from Paignton is very well used from what I've seen of it. One of the few IC services where everyone doesn't jump off at Exeter!

Nice idea, but it's not exactly a difficult journey - It can be done every hour with at most two changes - one same platform change at Newton Abbot, one simple change at either Temple Meads or Bristol. Apart from change times, no direct service could really offer much advantage in journey time.

There is also the Paignton - Cardiff direct service... it's a good idea for one, but not exactly a high priority, as despite the direct link, they are very well connected.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Whats about the'Exeter to Eastbourne that National Express Coaches has?

I think that only runs once a day in each direction (maybe twice a day in the summer).

What about for the summer (if paths exist)

Exeter-Bristol-Weymouth-Southampton-Brighton-Eastbourne

Have my doubts as to whether there would be any free paths for the Southampton-Eastbourne section. On a semi-related note, if SWT could somehow source the stock needed, could they take over the Weymouth-Bristol route?

 

[Searle]

I would consider it crazy if they ran straight through the station, but because they run round the curve, I would imagine it adds on quite a long time to stop. Although it would be useful, jumping on a train to either Reading or Oxford isn't that much hassle.

 

[yorksrob]

The South Coast and South West via Oxford, Banbury, Rugby Central, Leicester Central, Nottingham Victoria, Mansfield to the North East and Hull via Tuxford (my little fantasy )

On a slightly more realistic note, I still feel that Brighton should be on the XC route in some form, although the current service pattern seems to preclude this

 

[Hyphen]

The South Coast and South West via Oxford, Banbury, Rugby Central, Leicester Central, Nottingham Victoria, Mansfield to the North East and Hull via Tuxford (my little fantasy )

Unfortunately, I think someone put an art gallery in the way fairly recently... :cry:

 

[87019Chris]

Should XC not practically offer services that form a form of X over England Scotland and South Wales, e.g. Penance to Aberdeen and Norwich to Glasgow Via Carlisle and then some ones that run up the sides for example Norwich to Aberdeen Not via Leeds and Cardiff to Glasgow Via Preston and Carlisle, meaning a Nationwide service. I know this would mean it needing more units but it should be a cross country service not a Birmingham to south west or north east?
And Maintaining all current routes of course minus all its 170's and them given to EMT and LM where applies

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately, I think someone put an art gallery in the way fairly recently... :cry:

I just hope they've got a picture of a train in there somewhere !

 

[DarloRich]

This entire thread is classic fantasy land wibble!

Pointless one off services to favoured locations, the Brighton obsession, madcap service suggestions, crazy routings simply to avoid Birmingham (the major nexus of the route!), lack of acknowledgement of stock/ human resource issues and an inability to understand that the term “Cross Country” doesn’t mean countrywide!

There are issues with the current XC service but realistically to suggest they stretch their fleet further to service new locations is crazy. Their trains can not adequately service demand on the existing route let alone offer further services.

The franchise currently absorbs a good level of subsidy in serving their core route. How much more will they need in service far flung destinations once or twice (at most) a day?

Some of these proposed services would essentially remove a train from service for most of the day simply to serve a dead end location somewhere. How many other trips could that train make on the core route in that time?

To me XC need to be able to strengthen existing core route services and offer a better journey experience to the customer before they think about any new destinations.

 

[davetheguard]

Voyagers are good trains, there are a number of trains I'd like to see go to Booths (the 153s), but I understand it's not yet possible and I hope voyagers are in service for at least another 20 or 30 years.

I'm glad you like them; I just wish I did. As it is I avoid them like the plague.

 

[FQ]

I'm glad you like them; I just wish I did. As it is I avoid them like the plague.

Same, but I will NEVER travel on one.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This entire thread is classic fantasy land wibble!

Pointless one off services to favoured locations, the Brighton obsession, madcap service suggestions, crazy routings simply to avoid Birmingham (the major nexus of the route!), lack of acknowledgement of stock/ human resource issues and an inability to understand that the term “Cross Country” doesn’t mean countrywide!

There are issues with the current XC service but realistically to suggest they stretch their fleet further to service new locations is crazy. Their trains can not adequately service demand on the existing route let alone offer further services.

The franchise currently absorbs a good level of subsidy in serving their core route. How much more will they need in service far flung destinations once or twice (at most) a day?

Some of these proposed services would essentially remove a train from service for most of the day simply to serve a dead end location somewhere. How many other trips could that train make on the core route in that time?

To me XC need to be able to strengthen existing core route services and offer a better journey experience to the customer before they think about any new destinations.

Agree fully. For me the more pressing issues with CrossCountry lie in matters like diverting one of the Manchester services via Crewe, sending the Bournemouth services via Coventry and deciding whether to cut Doncaster to send everything via Leeds. It is only when you act on those and ensure that the Reading / Bristol / York / Manchester and inwards core is at realistically ideal provision that we can go 'OMG let's get Swansea / Ramsgate / Liverpool back on the map'.

 

[yorksrob]

Agree fully. For me the more pressing issues with CrossCountry lie in matters like diverting one of the Manchester services via Crewe, sending the Bournemouth services via Coventry and deciding whether to cut Doncaster to send everything via Leeds. It is only when you act on those and ensure that the Reading / Bristol / York / Manchester and inwards core is at realistically ideal provision that we can go 'OMG let's get Swansea / Ramsgate / Liverpool back on the map'.

I suppose it comes down to what one thinks is the purpose of the XC network. Is it a long distance InterCity service which is there to link up distant regions of the country rather than a Birmingham based commuter service.

Perhaps the stock issue might be eased when some HST's become released from other duties.

 

[The Planner]

Not unless the HSTs become more economical for them otherwise it will be the same as now and has been done to death on here.