Where is this station?

[Cowley]

Smooth looking front, but does appear to have the BIL / HAL raked roof shape otherwise I'd have thought it to be an EPB... Could it be an EPB with a shadow on the roof, I wonder?

View attachment 88038

That photo’s making my eyes go funny Peter...

 

[Journeyman]

Ref the "longer" emu...Very difficult to say from the blurred image. I initially thought 2 BILs. I remember them being coupled up together, as many as 4 sets. 2HALs are also a possibility, lots of them moved over from the SE division when EPB type stock became the norm there, l think in the mid 50s.

It could also be a pre-war suburban unit, the last of which ran in service in around 1960.

 

[Bungle158]

It could also be a pre-war suburban unit, the last of which ran in service in around 1960.

One of the older 4 SUBs? Yes certainly. I have an idea that they were called Queen Marys. The 405/1 SUBs of course had a flat front

 

[Inversnecky]

None of the EMUs have small yellow warning panels either, so it can't be later than about 1962.

Thanks all for your replies.

It’s from a 1962 film on signal engineering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

Here’s the link for it on YouTube:

 

[Cowley]

Thanks all for your replies.

It’s from a 1962 film on signal engineering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

Here’s the link for it on YouTube:

There’s some great footage on that film that shows the old hitting up against the new (relatively speaking).
I love all the shots that you get in those sort of films of a group of boffins staring at some plans and gazing wistfully into the middle distance imagining it all coming into life...
Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[Bungle158]

Having looked closely on my admittedly small phone screen, l now think that the unit, left side of grab, is a 405/1 4 SUB. It appears to be flat fronted. Opinion only and posted welcoming correction.

 

[contrex]

It's immediately recognisable as Waterloo. There was/is a tall block of flats that was a favourite spot for still and film photographers. Not much later than late 1963 as no yellow panel on the SUB. Certainly before late 1964 as there is a 4COR with white opal headcode box for stencils (all CORs & BUFs has roller blinds fitted by then)



Not sure what 'flat fronted' means in relation to the SUB; all the SUBs from the 1925 SR types, via the Shebas (4101-4110) to the Queen Mary (4111 onwards) were bay- or bow-fronted, although the Shebas had a domed roof over the cab. Having viewed the video in full screen, the EMU formation entering Waterloo to the right of the emerging steam loco is formed of a 1944 type Sheba 4SUB at the London end coupled to a 1946 type Queen Mary 4SUB.



Interestingly at 02:06 there is an unusual QM style SUB showing headcode 57 which looks like it has a Sheba-style canvas roof (see the gutter at cantrail position). Can't quite see the unit number. Could be 4111. I've been hunting for a picture of one of these.

 

[30907]

On "flat-fronted" - I take that to be anything without the domed cab roof, ie 4111 onwards.
I concur that the arriving EMU on the far right (Up Main Local) has one of 4101-10 leading (the screenshot made me think of a prewar unit, but incorrectly).
At 2:01 filmed trackside, just after the steam departure there is another Local arrival with a pre-war set including a 6-a-side "augmentation" trailer. A few of these lasted till 1962, so it's possible the sequence was taken not long before the film. The classic "Terminus" is also dated 1962 IIRC and I imagine the footage for both was shot around the same time.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks all for your replies.

It’s from a 1962 film on signal engineering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

Here’s the link for it on YouTube:

Great link - thanks - good thread too has emerged!
I'd not see that BTF film before - good to know it is on line and BFI DVD. as I don't think it is on the BFI commercially released BTF DVD film compilations. Didn't BTF have their offices at Waterloo in those days IIRC?

I see camera work by, amongst others, David 'Out of Africa Oscar winner' Watkin. No wonder it is good.

as @30907 remarks, Terminus is from similar date, and BTF often re-used spare footage, and if they were based at Waterloo then that would have been an easy location to take stock film for general use.

British Transport Films

 

[Inversnecky]

There’s some great footage on that film that shows the old hitting up against the new (relatively speaking).
I love all the shots that you get in those sort of films of a group of boffins staring at some plans and gazing wistfully into the middle distance imagining it all coming into life...
Welcome to the forum by the way.

Thanks for the welcome to the forum

Yes, it is a fascinating find. Besides the technology, it’s also an amazing glimpse into past times and different social attitudes, as well as approaches to health and safety (!) -

 

[John Webb]

Great link - thanks - good thread too has emerged!
I'd not see that BTF film before - good to know it is on line as I don't think it is on the BFI commercially released BTF DVD film compilations......

It's on Disc 1 of Volume Eight "Points and Aspects" of the DVD reissues by the BFI, published in 2008.

If I'd seen that film while still at school in 1962, I might have had a rather different career!

 

[WesternLancer]

It's on Disc 1 of Volume Eight "Points and Aspects" of the DVD reissues by the BFI, published in 2008.

If I'd seen that film while still at school in 1962, I might have had a rather different career!

Great - thanks - of course I'd not actually checked that before posting carefully, so appreciate the correction! I'll edit my post.

 

[Bevan Price]

It is not a Merchant Navy - their plates were round and mounted on the boiler. Judging by the style of the crest above the nameplate it is a rebuilt West Country so it is after June 1957 when the first was rebuilt...

Thanks for the correction; the photo is not very sharp on my screen,and I could not see enough detail.

 

[Wychwood93]

Looks like the link was removed in 1911 according to Kent Rail as well:

Waterloo East

The 5 chain link opened in July 1865. See: London Waterloo station - Wikipedia about 3 paras into the 'Expansion' section.

 

[alistairlees]

At 5’ 03” is that chislehurst junction, before more of the lines were added?

 

[marsker]

Just to add a little bit, the EMU behind the rebuilt Bullied looks to have the later white round British Railways badge rather than the old lion and wheel.
From the headcodes, the train departing is a Bournemouth line service and there is another rebuilt Bullied on a West of England line service in the station.

 

[CarltonA]

It is not a Merchant Navy - their plates were round and mounted on the boiler. Judging by the style of the crest above the nameplate it is a rebuilt West Country so it is after June 1957 when the first was rebuilt...

Looks like a Battle of Britain to me, the West Country had a red scroll under the crest with the name of the town. This one seems to be blue and have a different shape to the name part. Rather pedantic of course as they were the same class in reality.

 

[Peter C]

Right I’m going for 1st August 1959 10:12am and Fred was driving the Bulleid...

Fred Dibnah, I assume?

-Peter

 

[contrex]

At 2:01 filmed trackside, just after the steam departure there is another Local arrival with a pre-war set including a 6-a-side "augmentation" trailer. A few of these lasted till 1962

Yes! I didn't see that before. I think the last augmented 3-car sets were withdrawn 20 January 1962.



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

At 5’ 03” is that chislehurst junction, before more of the lines were added?

Yup. That's the Chislehurst Junction signal box you can see.

 

[MotCO]

Fred Dibnah, I assume?

-Peter

I suppose it shows my age by knowing who Fred Dibnah is, and remembering the tv series which propelled him to fame. An unlikely star, but a very watchable series, or number of series. (Apols for being off topic)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

Thanks all for your replies.

It’s from a 1962 film on signal engineering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2021 ==

Here’s the link for it on YouTube:

The absence of hi-vis and safety harnesses in the video is notable.

 

[Peter C]

I suppose it shows my age by knowing who Fred Dibnah is, and remembering the tv series which propelled him to fame. An unlikely star, but a very watchable series, or number of series. (Apols for being off topic)

I spent many an enjoyable hour watching his stuff during lockdown. He's long been someone I've been fond of - his attitude to his work, his love for all thing steam, and his projects. Maybe a thread to share peoples' favourite examples of his work would be a nice idea sometime...?

-Peter

 

[Inversnecky]

It's immediately recognisable as Waterloo. There was/is a tall block of flats that was a favourite spot for still and film photographers. Not much later than late 1963 as no yellow panel on the SUB. Certainly before late 1964 as there is a 4COR with white opal headcode box for stencils (all CORs & BUFs has roller blinds fitted by then)

View attachment 88062

Not sure what 'flat fronted' means in relation to the SUB; all the SUBs from the 1925 SR types, via the Shebas (4101-4110) to the Queen Mary (4111 onwards) were bay- or bow-fronted, although the Shebas had a domed roof over the cab. Having viewed the video in full screen, the EMU formation entering Waterloo to the right of the emerging steam loco is formed of a 1944 type Sheba 4SUB at the London end coupled to a 1946 type Queen Mary 4SUB.

View attachment 88060

Interestingly at 02:06 there is an unusual QM style SUB showing headcode 57 which looks like it has a Sheba-style canvas roof (see the gutter at cantrail position). Can't quite see the unit number. Could be 4111. I've been hunting for a picture of one of these.

View attachment 88061

I’m not as up on my MUs as I should be. What class did they become under TOPS?

 

[contrex]

@Inversnecky - the 4SUBs that survived to the TOPS era were given the Class 405 code.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I'd have thought it's earlier than that, from the extent of the bomb damage to the building on the left. Although there were still bomb sites around in the 1950s and maybe early 60s, I think that sort of damage would have been repaired, or the building demolished, before then.

There were significant bomb sites right in the middle of London up until at least the 1980s, before they were re-used for anything other than an area of gravel to park cars on. Bombed-out buildings obviously didn't last until then, but once they were pulled down, some of the the fenced-off sites lasted - pretty much untouched - until something was built on them in the 1980s.

 

[Capybara]

Anyway, the pub was the Red Lion. It was my local for several years until it closed in 2001. It reopened some time later as the Walrus and is also a hostel for travellers.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There were significant bomb sites right in the middle of London up until at least the 1980s, before they were re-used for anything other than an area of gravel to park cars on. Bombed-out buildings obviously didn't last until then, but once they were pulled down, some of the the fenced-off sites lasted - pretty much untouched - until something was built on them in the 1980s.

There was some publicity only about ten years ago about the last WW2 bombsite finally getting redeveloped, so around 2010...!!

 

[DelW]

There were significant bomb sites right in the middle of London up until at least the 1980s, before they were re-used for anything other than an area of gravel to park cars on. Bombed-out buildings obviously didn't last until then, but once they were pulled down, some of the the fenced-off sites lasted - pretty much untouched - until something was built on them in the 1980s.

I agree that cleared sites lasted much longer, but I'm still surprised that the building would have been left derelict but standing right alongside the railway for maybe fifteen to twenty years (since it's now been established that the film dates from 1962). However unless the damage was the result of a later fire, as another post speculated, it presumably must have been.
Either way, my original deduction that the shot dated from the 1950s was wrong!