When will there be more Wi-Fi on Trains?

[northernrail2009]

I know that National Express and Grand Central have free Wi-Fi on there trains bit thats about it and wanted to know when more services will be getting Wi-Fi??

Does it cost a lot to set up and maybe thats why no one really wants to set it up on there Trains??

 

[SqUaShIe P]

From what I know, It does cost a good bit to set up.
I think there were plans to put wifi on both NXEA intercity services, and C2C services. There was one C2C train that has been fitted with it, like as a pilot, Im not sure whats going on with that, and NXEA have had to put off their plans to install wifi on their trains for a little while for financial reasons, but i think they did still want to do it. Things might have changed since then, I heard the above a little while ago.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Virgin will be introducing it to their Pendos and Voyagers later this year. It'll be managed by T-Mobile, so free (or free for a limited period?) in first class and paid-for using T-Mobile's hotspot network in standard class.

Incidentally, was on an NXEC 225 today from Stevenage all the way up to Glasgow. En route I overheard two business passengers complaining to each other about the wifi cutting out. One called the support team (whose number is in the on board magazine and on notices about the train) and within about fifteen minutes it had been fixed - the helpdesk staffer had been able to remotely reboot the troublesome router.

 

[First ScotRail]

Virgin will fit Wireless Internet next month to the pendolinos. Super Voyagers later in the year. As said will be free in first class and chargable at hourly rate in standard, provides by T-Mobile 'Hot Spot'

 

[northernrail2009]

Virgin will fit Wireless Internet next month to the pendolinos. Super Voyagers later in the year. As said will be free in first class and chargable at hourly rate in standard, provides by T-Mobile 'Hot Spot'

I take it you would need a Credit or Debit to buy Broadband time??

 

[First ScotRail]

I think so.

 

[paul1609]

T mobile hotspot is the system offered by Southern on the Brighton Express;
http://www.southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=333

 

[Failed Unit]

T mobile hotspot is the system offered by Southern on the Brighton Express;
http://www.southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=333

I saw rumours in the press (definately in the Scotsman) that Scotrail were going to us the same system with Edinburgh - Glasgow service. I understand that the this requires less equipment on the trains. However this was over 1 year ago and nothing has been offically mentioned by Scotrail (other than they were looking into it - but I am sure they look into a lot of things over the year and decide they are not viable). One of the reasons mentioned was because the competing city link coaches offer it.

To be honest from my experience of the line, it is a nice to have but it is busy enough as it is so maybe they don't want to attract more passengers to it.

 

[jon0844]

The GNER/NXEC system requires no major rollout of infrastructure, but is slower. Routers can be rebooted by on train staff or remotely, and it's the same system that I used in Sweden on the X2000. When you log in, you can even see on the 'home page' a map showing where the train is. It's satellite based, using mobile as an uplink I believe, and is relatively slow for what people might expect these days (watching BBC iPlayer, YouTube etc).

The other system uses a range of WiMAX base stations and 3G/2G coverage, and can be VERY fast. However, it is more expensive to roll out and has so far been used on Southern trains and Heathrow Express (where it works very well).

You can pay by credit/debit card, use a scratch card (presumably sold onboard) or bill it to your T-Mobile account by sending a text to a shortcode and getting a login. The latter is very easy if you're a T-Mobile subscriber (and some tariffs even include Wi-Fi for free).

Personally, with the roll out of 3G with HSDPA and HSUPA (high speed uploading and downloading), I think a laptop with an embedded 3G modem is probably better than sharing a Wi-Fi connection. The problem is that many trains have poor coverage, although that can be rectified with repeaters/leaky feeders onboard.

 

[First ScotRail]

ScotRail is looking at Wireless Internet and its an option in the franchise extension to have it between Edinburgh and Glasgow. I think it would prove very popular.

 

[don24]

Virgin will fit Wireless Internet next month to the pendolinos. Super Voyagers later in the year. As said will be free in first class and chargable at hourly rate in standard, provides by T-Mobile 'Hot Spot'

That explains why I kept getting a wifi signal on certain pendolinos. The SSID's were named tests, so I am assuming that the roll out is imminent.

 

[me123]

ScotRail is looking at Wireless Internet and its an option in the franchise extension to have it between Edinburgh and Glasgow. I think it would prove very popular.

I would have thought so as well. Lots of businessmen use the route throughout the day, and I'm sure being able to send and receive e-mail on the go would help them a lot!

Probably also be profitable to Aberdeen and (to a lesser extent) Inverness services.

I'm not sure how the wifi works but, out of curiosity, if Scotrail went for wifi, would they theoretically be able to use NXEC's connection where it's already in place?

 

[GNERman]

GC to put them on adelantes...

 

[90019]

I'm not sure how the wifi works but, out of curiosity, if Scotrail went for wifi, would they theoretically be able to use NXEC's connection where it's already in place?

I would think so, but I dont think NXEC would be very happy

 

[northernrail2009]

Is there Deff Wi-Fi on GC Trains??

If so is it free or is there a cost?

 

[MCR247]

Is there Deff Wi-Fi on GC Trains??

If so is it free or is there a cost?

No

 

[me123]

I would think so, but I dont think NXEC would be very happy

Presumably if FSR paid NXEC, it would be cheaper than setting up another network over an existing one. At least in the short term; long term it would probably yield only a loss.

 

[First ScotRail]

As previously said, the Hot-Spot T-Mobile opinion is prefered by many operators as it is relatively easy, I would presume ScotRail may use this opinion if they introduce Wireless. However I cant see it at the minute, cost cutting is taking hold and the opening of Airdrie-Bathgate next year (if i remember correctly?) may be an ideal opportunity for ScotRail to introduce wireless. I know the rebrand is concentrating at first on the airdrie-bathgate line with mostly all stations etc to be done by the opening.

 

[jon0844]

To clarify, the T-Mobile system (actually it isn't built by them) requires ground stations. The GNER system was a satellite system, with a mobile link, so there's no ground stations and thus it's very cheap. However, it's slow and there's no system around the tracks for other people to 'use'.

I used it when I last travelled and it was okay, but it did cut out quite a lot and I ended up using my own mobile data connection. That was fine, except for when you went into a tunnel. With the Wi-Fi system, the data stops but you still maintain the connection to the router - the phone/dongle can sometimes drop if it loses signal long enough.

 

[paul1609]

The Tmobile system actually uses the mobile phone network with extra in fill transmitters and on the Brighton Line at least leaky feeder cables through the tunnels.
When 377/3s are on coastway services I can get am almost perfect signal all the way from Littlehampton to Portsmouth Harbour. Ive been able to send video via Skype to other posters on here. Its a lot better than the nxec system in my experience as a user.

 

[jon0844]

I went to both launch days for Southern and Heathrow Express (I expect I'll be invited when Virgin Trains launches) and I am sure I was told they use both WiMax and 3G, with the priority on the former. The mobile connection is a backup, but the handoff is seamless because you're only (obviously) connected to the router on the train.

It works very well on Heathrow Express, especially at Paddington where you get very high speeds as you're still in the platform.

The speeds will be faster than the National Express system, but for normal web browsing both would be fine. The problem is that now we want video and music streaming (or VoIP) and since NXEC made their service free, it must be a lot slower than it already was.

 

[northernrail2009]

No

Is that there is no WI-FI on GC trains?

if not it says on there website that they have it.

 

[MCR247]

Is that there is no WI-FI on GC trains?

if not it says on there website that they have it.

I didnt think that they did, but I'm sure someone who knows more about GC will know.

 

[Failed Unit]

The Tmobile system actually uses the mobile phone network with extra in fill transmitters and on the Brighton Line at least leaky feeder cables through the tunnels.
When 377/3s are on coastway services I can get am almost perfect signal all the way from Littlehampton to Portsmouth Harbour. Ive been able to send video via Skype to other posters on here. Its a lot better than the nxec system in my experience as a user.

What equipment is on the trains. Is it just a reciever for the mobile base stations to convert to the wi-fi standard? I understand the equipment used by GNER was fairly large and is in the buffet / DVT for that reason. The don't have that much space on units.

On the Scotrail example they have 40 units that normally go on Edinburgh - Glasgow route in normal service. (170401 - 434 & 450-455) That is a lot of units to equip. I guess that people using Aberdeen and Inverness services may benefit until they leave the mainline. I know they could also maybe fit 20 and keep them diagramed on Edinburgh - Glasgow.

To me the t-mobile system is very good on highly used lines such as the brighton mainline, but GNER made the right choice when you think of the cost of doing say Newcastle - Edinburgh. I think GNER is both 3G and Satelite using 3G when it can and satelite only when no signal is on offer - probably everywhere north of Edinburgh.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I didnt think that they did, but I'm sure someone who knows more about GC will know.

GC do have Wifi on their trains, free of charge, and when I've used it the download speed and reliability have been excellent.

 

[jon0844]

The system bought by GNER was the only system at the time. The system installed in conjunction with T-Mobile is a more modern, faster, approach but with a higher infrastructure cost.

As 3G coverage improves, including rural areas, a system could become as cheap as having a Wi-Fi router in each car with an embedded 3G SIM and an external antenna. Then, you have a 7.2 or 14.4Mbps data connection shared over Wi-Fi. You also have increased capacity if each car has its own connection (although you have to consider the capacity on the actual transmitter that each one is 'talking' to).

As long as NXEC trains don't have fancy window coatings/coverings that block the signal, I'm quite happy to use a 3G modem/phone on my own. There's even software out there for Symbian S60 devices to share that data connection over Wi-Fi - so in effect, I could provide everyone around me with a data connection!

 

[Pumbaa]

VT have just launched wi-fi. The official launch date is 1st April, but it is already in use now. Coverage is full London - Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool/Lancaster then a bit patchy between Lancaster and outer Glasgow, before getting better again.

 

[northernbored]

When HT's 180s come out of refurb (sometime now) they will have free wifi to all.

 

[Snapper]

VT have just launched wi-fi. The official launch date is 1st April, but it is already in use now. Coverage is full London - Birmingham/Manchester/Liverpool/Lancaster then a bit patchy between Lancaster and outer Glasgow, before getting better again.

The Virgin wifi is very good. I'm sending this now from the 1740 Euston - Manchester! I've just been emailing pictures to RAIL and they went through without a hitch. I doubt I'd have been able to do that from NXEC. Virgin's will be free in 1st but there will be charge in Standard.

Grand Central also have wifi which is free in 1st and Standard - that's also very fast and reliable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You also have increased capacity if each car has its own connection (although you have to consider the capacity on the actual transmitter that each one is 'talking' to).

I've been told that the Virgin system is fitted to each car.

 

[devon_metro]

About time FGW followed suit...