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When will someone do something about CrossCountry

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JonathanH

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Should XC in the future replace all Voyagers with a fleet of tri-mode Class 800 style units, that are fitted with Pantograph, Diesel Engines and 3rd Rail pickup shoes so that at least when on electrified routes their not wasting use of the infrastructure?

I would order maybe 5-car units and 9-car units as well as looking at maybe expanding the network long term.

Oh dear. Get the existing service right first. There should be no consideration of expansion of the network at all until the basic issues are sorted out.

The topic of replacing Voyagers with class 800 units has been discussed before.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...dered-for-the-cross-country-franchise.162455/

Except that I can't think of any routes where the third-rail capability is needed, unless we are imagining that they will be going back to Brighton?

Basingstoke to Bournemouth?

I agree that there is no chance of Cross Country going to Brighton.
 
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Whistler40145

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Except that I can't think of any routes where the third-rail capability is needed, unless we are imagining that they will be going back to Brighton?
Mind you, I agree it makes sense to have the diesel and electric bits working through a DC-compatible base, just in case...
Well Basingstoke to Bournemouth is third rail
 

AndrewE

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Basingstoke to Bournemouth?

I agree that there is no chance of Cross Country going to Brighton.

Well Basingstoke to Bournemouth is third rail
Sorry, I overlooked that service, I don't get down there much (and I didn't bother to look at the timetable - clearly I should have...)
When we are let out again maybe I should have a run out to the south coast!
 

The Ham

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Sorry, I overlooked that service, I don't get down there much (and I didn't bother to look at the timetable - clearly I should have...)
When we are let out again maybe I should have a run out to the south coast!

There's also the every two hour Basingstoke to Southampton service as well as the one a day Reading to Guildford which runs over sections of Third rail line.
 

Stephen Lee

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Why would you lengthen them? There are some workings which are scheduled for four car trains - that wouldn't be possible if all 170s were three cars long.

Isn’t it better to make it a 5/6-coach train? But i have to consider if there are stations that the XC regional routes served can hold such long train
 

The Ham

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I would order maybe 5-car units and 9-car units as well as looking at maybe expanding the network long term.

Indeed, as not all 5 coach trains are created equal:
- XC Voyager - 262 seats
- GWR 802 - 326 seats
- TPE 802 - 342 seats

That puts the 804's at a similar capacity to a 6 coach voyager (slightly higher or lower depending on the configuration).

Whilst currently there's a need for extra capacity across the core that could well reverse in the future with the opening of HS2 which would be much faster with a higher capacity for travel between Birmingham and Manchester, Leeds, York, etc.

As well as creating faster journey times and more frequent services, although not direct, from Reading and too a lesser extent from places South of Reading and travel to Birmingham.

If the Southern Approach to Heathrow is built and there's through trains between Basingstoke/Guildford and Paddington that would reduce the need for many to travel via Reading giving them a direct, or within one change, service to Old Oak Common.

That's going to change the need for as many long trains. However having said that, in time, it could well be that they are still needed as rail continues to grow. As although WFH would reduce the numbers traveling by rail every weekday, there's likely to be a similar impact (if not more) on car usage. This could lead to more leisure rail travel, which would lead to XC needing more capacity.
 
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devonexpress

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It's only going to get worse with XC taking on an additional 2 powercars, they are making the HST sets down to 6 coaches, but it will bring an additional set available. As other have said, there are plenty of ex LNER OR GWR HST sets available, they just need some maintenance to bring them back up to standard and approval from the DFT. At least until the 221 and 222 become available or the next franchise is forced to order IET's.
 

swt_passenger

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It's only going to get worse with XC taking on an additional 2 powercars, they are making the HST sets down to 6 coaches, but it will bring an additional set available. As other have said, there are plenty of ex LNER OR GWR HST sets available, they just need some maintenance to bring them back up to standard and approval from the DFT. At least until the 221 and 222 become available or the next franchise is forced to order IET's.
People have also explained quite a few times recently that XC are not assembling a 6th HST. The two power cars just being maintenance spares.
 

swt_passenger

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Seems sensible, we shall have to wait and see...
I think the main HST operators had always maintained the coaches and power cars on different calendar or hours run bases, hence usually having a larger number of power cars than just twice the number of coaching sets, so it seems to me that with XC only having 10 for 5 sets they’ve artificially limited the use of their coaches?
 

Stephen Lee

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Oh sorry but if i were you i would think of HSTs for Stopgap then 221/222s for long-term. Anyway 222s need modification so as to work in multiple with 220/221s


So just like what you guys think, 221/222s as long-term and extra HSTs as stopgap

Oh i have forgotten that the Avanti 221s need to switch the tilting function off when cascading to XC
 

JonathanH

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Oh i have forgotten that the Avanti 221s need to switch the tilting function off when cascading to XC

That isn't a very difficult problem to overcome. For a start, there aren't track ballaises on almost all of the routes XC work over.
 
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