When will it go all wrong for the SNP?

[geoffk]

Much as I disagree with their very raison d'etre, given that yesterday was designated one of the SNP's 'Opposition Days' they have every right to feel aggrieved that the Speaker overruled convention in favour of Labour. As do the Tories, assuming that they are annoyed by the breach of protocol rather than playing party politics.....

My understanding is that the Speaker selects which tabled amendments are selected for a vote. It appears that the issue of MPs' safety was used by the current Speaker to justify his handling of the debate on the Gaza war but the debate descended into political points scoring. The problem is that procedures developed at a time when the HoC had only two main parties don't work when there are three, but this is the way Parliament has worked since the 19th century. Time for a written constitution.

 

[Gloster]

Nobody comes out of this well. Labour wanted to push the amendment in order to hold the party together, the SNP is raising the roof in order to try to gain leverage, and the Conservatives sabotaged things because they were worried that quite a few of their MPs would rebel and vote for Labour’s amendment. The Speaker’s explanation has some validity (I say ‘some’), but could just be retrospective justification. I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

 

[Busaholic]

Nobody comes out of this well. Labour wanted to push the amendment in order to hold the party together, the SNP is raising the roof in order to try to gain leverage, and the Conservatives sabotaged things because they were worried that quite a few of their MPs would rebel and vote for Labour’s amendment. The Speaker’s explanation has some validity (I say ‘some’), but could just be retrospective justification. I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

Well said. I'd just add that Hoyle probably made an error of judgment, but as a basically decent man his apology was heartfelt. I think calls for his removal are entirely politically vindictive and should be ignored.

 

[DelW]

I am sure that all those dying in Gaza are more than happy to let Westminster play its little games while they starve and die. Not that anything that Westminster does will make a ha’porth of difference.

That was my thought too. If Netanyahu won't even listen to the Americans who supply much of his aid money and armaments, as well as vetoing anything critical of Israel at the UN, he's hardly likely to take any notice of anything said here.

It reminded me of Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That was my thought too. If Netanyahu won't even listen to the Americans who supply much of his aid money and armaments, as well as vetoing anything critical of Israel at the UN, he's hardly likely to take any notice of anything said here.

It reminded me of Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

I think one problem is, while we're voicing unhappiness at Israel's actions, we're doing basically nothing to incentivise Israel to take heed of our concerns. As one obvious example, I believe we still sell weapons to Israel. For all the horror that various of our representatives are expressing about Israel's actions, I haven't noticed anyone in Parliament suggest that we should suspend those sales.

 

[najaB]

I think one problem is, while we're voicing unhappiness at Israel's actions, we're doing basically nothing to incentivise Israel to take heed of our concerns. As one obvious example, I believe we still sell weapons to Israel.

What do we sell to them?

 

[JamesT]

What do we sell to them?

F35 components.

 

[najaB]

F35 components.

Do we sell to Israel, or do we sell to Lockheed Martin?

 

[Ediswan]

According to this, over £442 million worth between May 2015 and August 2022.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CDP-2023-0223/CDP-2023-0223.pdf

The UK has licenced arms worth over £442 million to Israel between May 2015
and August 2022, according to analysis of Government export data by the
Campaign Against Arms Trade (CAAT), a UK based pressure group that seeks
an end to the global arms trade

https://caat.org.uk/news/caat-calls...t-for-israeli-forces-following-gaza-killings/

including:

• £183 million worth of ML22 licences (military technology)
• £117 million worth of ML10 licences (aircraft, helicopters, drones)
• £22 million worth of ML4 licences (grenades, bombs, missiles, countermeasures)
• £4.6 million worth of ML6 licences (armoured vehicles, tanks)
• £1.9 million with of ML3 licences (ammunition)
• £1.1 million worth of ML1 licences (small arms)

 

[najaB]

According to this, over £442 million worth between May 2015 and August 2022.

While approximately £450 million is a lot of money to you or me, it's worth noting that US military assistance to Israel dwarfs that - £50 million a year vs $3 billion a year.

 

[YorkRailFan]

BREAKING: Nicola Sturgeon’s husband Peter Murrell has been re-arrested in connection with the investigation into the SNP’s finances

https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1780991013307211920?t=ZADNrrrkDb8XwgctmQeF-g&s=19

Things only seem to be going further downhill for the SNP.

 

[YorkRailFan]

BREAKING: Nicola Sturgeon’s husband Peter Murrell has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the SNP

https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1781026908869693638?t=_B7LoXY3D-21jjWLYIgRvQ&s=19

Deja Vu to early 2023 after Sturgeon resigned as First Minister.

 

[brad465]

I can't link an article due to being on phone, but Sturgeon's husband has been charged with embezzlement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Apr 2024 ==

EDIT: Link now here:

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement in SNP finance probe

The husband of Nicola Sturgeon had been re-arrested in connection with the SNP finances investigation.

www.bbc.co.uk

The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party.
Peter Murrell, 59, was taken into custody at 09:13 on Thursday and was questioned by Police Scotland detectives.
He was previously arrested as a suspect on 5 April 2023 before being released without charge.
Mr Murrell resigned as the party's chief executive in March 2023.
He was charged at 18:35 after further questioning by Police Scotland officers investigating the funding and finances of the party as part of Operation Branchform.
Mr Murrell has since been released from police custody at Falkirk Police Station.

• Peter Murrell: One half of Scotland's power couple

Police Scotland launched a formal investigation into the SNP's finances in July 2021 after receiving complaints about how donations were used.
Questions had been raised about more than £660,000 in donations given to the party for use in a fresh independence referendum campaign.
When Mr Murrell was arrested last year, police searched the house he shares with Ms Sturgeon in Glasgow and the SNP headquarters in Edinburgh.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @brad465 or @Purple Train to update

 

[brad465]

Murrell has now pleaded guilty:

Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell’s £400,000 embezzlement was ‘betrayal’, Swinney says

Murrell used the money to buy luxury goods, jewellery, cosmetics, cars and a motorhome over a 12-year period.

www.bbc.co.uk

Murrell admits embezzling £400,000 from the SNP
​

Paul O'Hare
BBC Scotland reporter at the High Court in Edinburgh

Advocate Depute Alan Cameron KC read out a series of deletions to the original indictment faced by Murrell.

It emerged earlier this year that he had been charged with embezzling £459,046.49 between 12 August 2010 and 13 January 2023.

The total sum has now fallen to £400,310.65.

The offences were carried out between 12 August 2010 and 19 October 2022.

 

[Meole]

Did Sturgeon participate in this lavish lifestyle ?

 

[Stathern Jc]

Can anyone remind me why this case was deferred from a date prior to the Scottish Parliament Election a couple of weeks ago?

I do try not to be cynical.
Honest!

 

[oldman]

Did Sturgeon participate in this lavish lifestyle ?

She has made the position very clear - 'these were not my crimes. I was misled just as others were' and it would be wrong for anyone to suggest otherwise.

He seems to have had a thing about coffee machines - 3 in four years (BBC live page)

The schedule of items includes a Miele CM 6300 machine on 24 November 2014, which cost £1,299.
Then on 1 February 2017 he used £1,865.75 of party money to buy a Jura bean-to-coffee machine.
And on 10 October 2018 he invested in a Jura 28 fully automatic bean-to-cup coffee machine, which cost £2,595.
The schedule shows Murrell bought Portuguese coffee beans on a number of occasions.
In May 2017 he spent £84.95 on five packs of gourmet beans and £123.91 on five packs of roasted beans.
Murrell also bought traditional instant coffee with SNP cash.
This included 2kg of Nescafe Gold Blend in May 2018 for £81.16.

 

[43096]

She has made the position very clear - 'these were not my crimes. I was misled just as others were' and it would be wrong for anyone to suggest otherwise.

He seems to have had a thing about coffee machines - 3 in four years (BBC live page)

So she wasn't in the least bit suspicious about where he was getting the money for all this stuff from? Do me a favour...

 

[Falcon1200]

Did Sturgeon participate in this lavish lifestyle ?

She clearly knew nothing, absolutely nothing, about her husband and senior SNP colleague's behaviour, just as she knew nothing, absolutely nothing, about the alleged behaviour of her former mentor/party leader to her deputy. And she did say, according to the BBC News report;

The questions raised by the Peter Murrell embezzlement controversy

Thecase has been hanging over the SNP like a toxic cloud since the police investigation began five years ago.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another question that arises. How was Nicola Sturgeon able to give private and public assurances about the SNP's financial health?
"There are no reasons for people to be concerned about the party's finances" she told a meeting of the SNP's ruling body in March 2021, warning its members against suggesting otherwise.
In a TV interview a few months later, she insisted that "money hasn't gone missing".
It is not clear on what basis she made these comments, what efforts she made as SNP leader to satisfy herself that all was well and to what extent she was relying on her husband's word.

Fair enough, easy not to realise that £400,000 has gone missing.

One does have to feel for those nationalists who thought they were giving money towards independence and a free unicorn for every child, whereas it was actually buying useful things....But at least it is £400,000 less for the SNP's never ending road to nowhere.

(edited to correct the amount stolen)

 

[brad465]

Can anyone remind me why this case was deferred from a date prior to the Scottish Parliament Election a couple of weeks ago?

I do try not to be cynical.
Honest!

I wouldn't be surprised if purdah stops cases like this ever taking place in the run-up to an election. However, I would not be surprised if he delayed the plea as long as possible, given how long ago he was charged I'm guessing he could have pleaded guilty much earlier.

 

[Gloster]

I am sure that Sturgeon is busy doing the, “Peter Murrell? No, I don’t know anyone of that name.”

”The Peter Murrell you were married to for fifteen years.”

”Was I? Well as a busy leader and champion of Scotland’s independence I can’t be expected to remember everyone I meet.”

I just wonder whom the jewellery and women’s cosmetics he is reported to have bought were for.

 

[Richard S]

It wasn't £40,000 it's £400,000 that was embezzled.

 

[Broucek]

Did she not notice the coffee machines?

 

[Stathern Jc]

Did she not notice the coffee machines?

Or smell the coffee?
Or anything else that didn't smell right???

 

[Purple Train]

Murrell has now pleaded guilty:

Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell’s £400,000 embezzlement was ‘betrayal’, Swinney says

Murrell used the money to buy luxury goods, jewellery, cosmetics, cars and a motorhome over a 12-year period.

www.bbc.co.uk

Just to add that as per the write-up here, Peter Murrell will be sentenced on 23 June.

Murrell, who served as SNP chief executive for more than 20 years, now faces a potentially lengthy prison sentence. He is to be sentenced on 23 June.

Murrell was handcuffed before a hushed courtroom and led from the dock.

Judge Lord Young said the ex-political heavyweight was responsible for a "gross breach of trust".

When details of the charge emerged earlier this year, Murrell was accused of embezzling £459,046.49 between 12 August 2010 and 13 January 2023.

However, it was confirmed at the High Court hearing that the total sum had been cut to £400,310.65, with the period of offending also reduced by three months.

 

[317 forever]

Just to add that as per the write-up here, Peter Murrell will be sentenced on 23 June.

Reform might crow that this is happening on the 10th anniversary of the Brexit referendum.

 

[yorkie]

The idea that Mrs Murrell had no idea what he was up to is absurd

 

[weeklycommuter]

Reform might crow that this is happening on the 10th anniversary of the Brexit referendum.

In view of the disaster that was the consequence of the referendum on leaving the EU those politicians who supported leaving may consider this sentencing of Peter Murrell to be a useful distraction that ensures mention of that anniversary is kept out of the news.

 

[AlterEgo]

The nub of the issue is whether it you would notice £33000 a year of extra money being spent in a household which earns £250,000 a year legitimately. I doubt I would.