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When will excessive announcements cease?

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zwk500

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Depressingly predictable that DfT’s answer to missing tactile paving is “play an announcement about missing tactile paving” rather than “install tactile paving,” but oh well.
It takes time to get round every station, and some platform surfaces are harder to install tactile paving in than others. The announcement can be set up overnight.
I agree and also it is the worst of tokenism to give a generic announcement about some platforms not having tactile paving without saying which thry are. It is the art being able to pretend one is doing something about an issue by making n announcement when actually nothing is being done at all.
I do agree with this though. For the first few weeks maybe it's acceptable, but surely it's got to be possible to put a specific announcement on at each station telling you which platforms don't have it.
 
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I’m guessing context may well be needed here.

Was this by any chance in the afternoon when there was massive disruption on all but the Harrogate route due to the fatality at Copmanthorpe?

I think during this sort of disruption it’s reasonable to have constant announcements telling people what’s happening as there are people arriving at a station like York for trains all the time.

If it was happening at Church Fenton which was affected by the same disruption at the same time it would be overkill as it’s much quieter there with a much lower amount of passengers arriving at the station.
It was in the evening, a good few hours after lines had reopened.
 

Phil R

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GWR have got rid of a few announcements. Their stations no longer play the unattended luggage announcements, and at the start of the journey they no longer reel off every safety message known to man via the TrainFX system. Unfortunately the annoying tactile paving announcement I believe was mandated by the DfT. SWR play it every half an hour at their stations, whereas GWR, GN etc play it after every train announcement, which is definitely excessive imo.
That explains why it seems to be played at exactly the same time each morning, just before I fall down the stairs.
Off topic but I wonder if in their tactile paving considerations they thought about whether people were more likely to walk close to the platform edge to avoid the discomfort. I do and from observation I am not alone.
 

leytongabriel

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I notice there’s been an increase of announcements regarding the lack of tactile pacing at said (this) stations.

Never used to be any announcements regarding this.
Including at Gloucester on the platforms ( 1 and 2 ) which DO have tactile paving.
 

Route115?

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Going a bit off topic, I understand that it is important to put gaps between sentences to make announcements intelligible. Some automated announcents (South West Railway comes to mind) seem to have forgotten this.
 

skyhigh

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I always stop the infuriating "See it, Say it Etc..." if Digital Doris pipes up with it and I am within reach of a PA set, Well overdue for the chop that one.
You need to be careful with that. Regardless of personal opinions on that announcement, it's a DfT requirement that it's played and they do carry out unannounced monitoring. It could also be seen as misconduct - and especially when crew are in dispute it's not worth giving management ammunition over silly things like stopping required auto announcements.
 

busestrains

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What annoys me is that the train companies seem to be reducing the useful announcements telling you about the next train and where it is calling but at the same time they are increasing all of the safety announcements like the See It Say It Sort It one and various others.

For example on the Southern network the Amey system up until a few years ago had three announcements per train. This was excellent as these were very useful announcements telling you where the train was going and where it was calling at and having three of them meant that people did not miss the announcement if they were not on the platform at the right time. Then when Southern switched to Worldline they reduced it to one announcement per train. So it is very easy to miss. But at the same time they seem to have increased the various safety announcements. So they are doing it all wrong.

The three announcements per train (example below) under the Amey system that Southern and Southeastern used was by far the best format in my opinion:

CALLING TRAINS:

1. "Platform four for the 18:24 Southern service to London Victoria. Calling at, East Croydon, Clapham Junction, and London Victoria. This train is formed of twelve coaches. Platform four for the 18:24 Southern service to London Victoria."

2. "The train now approaching platform four is the 18:24 Southern service to London Victoria. This train is the service from Brighton."

3. "Gatwick Airport. This is Gatwick Airport. The train now standing at platform four is the 18:24 Southern service to London Victoria. Calling at, East Croydon, Clapham Junction, and London Victoria."

TERMINATING TRAINS:

1. "The next train at platform six terminates here. This train is the service from London Victoria. This train will terminate here."

2. "The train now approaching platform six terminates here. This train is the service from London Victoria. This train will terminate here."

3. "Gatwick Airport. This is Gatwick Airport. The train now standing at platform six terminates here. This train is the service from London Victoria. All change please. All change. This train terminates here."

FAST TRAINS:

1. Stand well away from the edge of platform four. The approaching train is not scheduled to stop at this station. Fast train approaching."

This tells you what you need to know about the train without any added nonsense.

We do not need announcements about tactile paving or the number to text the police or letting us know that the CCTV is in operation or that we should not leave our bags unattended or not to board and alight when the doors are closing or anything like that.

What i would be interested to know is if there is actually any evidence that safety announcements actually have any impact? Is someone less likely to leave a bag unattended because they hear an announcement telling them not too? Is someone less likely to commit a crime because they hear an announcement telling them that CCTV is in operation? Is someone more likely to take extra care when boarding because they hear an announcement telling them that there is no tactile paving? Is someone not going to board or alight when the doors are closing because they hear an announcement telling them not to do so? Are these announcements just to cover the train companies legally? Personally i highly doubt that such announcements make any difference or reduce any risks but i would be interested to know what others think?
 

HantsExile

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The sound of that woman's awful fake-sympathetic voice instructing you to say "HI!" in the face of some random grumpy looking person is like nails down a chalkboard.

Also annoying are the on board guards that literally shout repeatedly regarding which tickets are and are NOT valid on this service. I repeat if you have a ticket for another train operating company it is NOT valid on this service and you WILL be required to purchase a new ticket and you WILL be shouted at repeatedly telling you this.

Say it once, fine. But otherwise it's chippy, un-necessary and generally sets the tone for the journey!

Yesterday at Waterloo I boarded a SWR train about 15 minutes before departure. During those 15 minutes the guard made at least 3 long announcements focusing on the rules for Advance tickets, that Advance tickets not specifying this train were not valid and that customers holding an invalid ticket would need to buy a new one. All useful information I suppose, although one would question the number of repetitions. But each time he added an element new to my ears: that if customers holding an Advance ticket for another train had been advised by gateline staff that their ticket was valid, the gateline staff were wrong. Slightly surprising, and again to hear this announcement 3 or 4 times within a space of 15 minutes did not make for a relaxing wait for departure!

(To be fair, the number of announcements when underway was not excessive, and when the guard came through the train checking tickets, he seemed a professional and customer-friendly guy. I wonder if these repeated pre-departure announcements were his choice or an edict from on high?)
 

Deepgreen

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To answer the title question - probably never as long as society remains so litigious, and while taking more and more responsibility away from the individual. GWR has always been worst, and they also (as far as I know) are the only TOC to use 40 seconds as their 'doors will be locked' time, rather than 30. While the issue of whatever margin is used is for another place, a standard time would surely have been within the capabilites of the TOCs to agree on. Seemingly not, and I can't see much changing despite promises from GBR or whomever. This is the group of railway and/or police management that spawned "see it, say it, sorted", remember, so the outlook is surely grim.
 

swt_passenger

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The three announcements per train (example below) under the Amey system that Southern and Southeastern used was by far the best format in my opinion:

[see earlier posted text]

This tells you what you need to know about the train without any added nonsense.
I think the third examples in each case should be simplified to just provide the message needed for someone who is waiting on the platform, because unless it can be timed with accuracy, to only start once the doors have opened, the aspects of the announcement that apply to incoming passengers will be missed by them.

Besides, the terminating train‘s PA, (or guard if provided), will have also already played all that stuff about “this is <station>“, “all change, all change” etc.

On platform announcements like this were only needed because they weren’t provided on board, and if they were a bit early they’d probably be heard anyway, through the open windows and opening doors on the slam door stock.
 

busestrains

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I think the third examples in each case should be simplified to just provide the message needed for someone who is waiting on the platform, because unless it can be timed with accuracy, to only start once the doors have opened, the aspects of the announcement that apply to incoming passengers will be missed by them.

Besides, the terminating train‘s PA, (or guard if provided), will have also already played all that stuff about “this is <station>“, “all change, all change” etc.

On platform announcements like this were only needed because they weren’t provided on board, and if they were a bit early they’d probably be heard anyway, through the open windows and opening doors on the slam door stock.
Personally i really liked the "[station]. This is [station]." announcements. They were very reassuring to hear especially on late night trains when it was difficult to know where you were. It was very disappointing when the Amey systems were removed and as such these "[station]. This is [station]." announcements have all disappeared. I remember on so many occasions when i was travelling late at night on unfamiliar lines and found these announcements so helpful and reassuring at knowing where i was as it could be difficult to see the station signs.

As you say i suppose it is less of an issue now that most trains have automated announcements onboard. But up until just a couple of years ago there were still 319s running around without announcements. Plus you often get trains with broken announcements (or ones that are out of sequence especially if the train uses the TrainFX system) so it can still be useful.

The timing was indeed an issue though. Some would play too early before the train stopped. Some would play too late after the train had already left. But sometimes it was just right and played right when the doors were released which was perfect. I wonder if there would have been any way to link these announcements to the door release so it plays when the Driver or Guard presses the door release buttons. It would probably be possible but require some expensive technology.
 

Sonik

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You need to be careful with that. Regardless of personal opinions on that announcement, it's a DfT requirement that it's played and they do carry out unannounced monitoring. It could also be seen as misconduct
Nothing Orwellian at all going on there then...
 

trainophile

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I wish they would expand a bit on what they mean by "if you see anything that doesn't look right". It's subjective to most people. Just by adding "unattended luggage"; "person acting suspiciously", it would be much more meaningful, although I appreciate this would make an already intensely annoying announcement even longer. They could also drop the "see it say it sorted" as it's superfluous and not even slightly clever now it's been done to death.
 

zwk500

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I wish they would expand a bit on what they mean by "if you see anything that doesn't look right". It's subjective to most people. Just by adding "unattended luggage"; "person acting suspiciously", it would be much more meaningful, although I appreciate this would make an already intensely annoying announcement even longer. They could also drop the "see it say it sorted" as it's superfluous and not even slightly clever now it's been done to death.
The idea is that you never know what the next threat will be, so by keeping the warning general people will be looking for anything, rather than specifically unattended bags or whatever.
 

43096

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The idea is that you never know what the next threat will be, so by keeping the warning general people will be looking for anything, rather than specifically unattended bags or whatever.
Which is all rendered utterly irrelevant as it is played so often that no-one is listening. They need to get rid of it, as it has zero effect. As for the "See it. Say it. Sorted" end, that should never, ever have been allowed to make it onto the announcements - it is easily interpreted as "Sort it"* in other words the person should take matters into their own hands.

* It's in the same league as the East Coast operator calling its buffet service "Food bar", which sounds like "FUBAR" on the PA.
 

Dr_Paul

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I wish they would expand a bit on what they mean by "if you see anything that doesn't look right".
Not so long ago I saw a couple of 455s on a Reading service. Now that certainly didn't look right...
 

zwk500

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Not so long ago I saw a couple of 455s on a Reading service. Now that certainly didn't look right...
The joke in GTR's area when the See it, say it, sorted message started was 'Yes, I'd like to report a train that ran on time!'
 

sheff1

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I wish they would expand a bit on what they mean by "if you see anything that doesn't look right".
On the Northern train I was on earlier the message was "if somethig makes you feel uncomfortable contact British Transport Police". So I now know what to do if the heating isn't working on a train this winter.
 

Sonik

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The idea is that you never know what the next threat will be, so by keeping the warning general people will be looking for anything, rather than specifically unattended bags or whatever.
Ironically though, I don't remember any of this nonsense in the 80s, when there actually was an imminent threat. Nobody asked why there weren't any bins on the tube, we all just got on with it.

It does therefore rather smack of scaremongering, which is doing the terrorists job for them if you think about it. Whatever happened to stiff upper lip?
 

zwk500

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Ironically though, I don't remember any of this nonsense in the 80s, when there actually was an imminent threat. Nobody asked why there weren't any bins on the tube, we all just got on with it.

It does therefore rather smack of scaremongering, which is doing the terrorists job for them if you think about it. Whatever happened to stiff upper lip?
The IRA by and large played by different rules. They generally telephoned warnings and often targeted economic infrastructure rather than lives. In addition, the population has grown so each threat poses a greater risk.
I agree it is scaremongering, but there are threats to be concerned about.
 

AM9

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To answer the title question - probably never as long as society remains so litigious, and while taking more and more responsibility away from the individual. GWR has always been worst, and they also (as far as I know) are the only TOC to use 40 seconds as their 'doors will be locked' time, rather than 30. While the issue of whatever margin is used is for another place, a standard time would surely have been within the capabilites of the TOCs to agree on. Seemingly not, and I can't see much changing despite promises from GBR or whomever. This is the group of railway and/or police management that spawned "see it, say it, sorted", remember, so the outlook is surely grim.
At last, in post #162, somebody has actually answered the question asked by the OP in the title of the thread, instead of trotting out their long standing whinges about pa announcements.
Harping on about what happened years/decades ago isn't addressing the subject at all, - it's 2022 now and we live in an environment of self-entitlement, blame and litigation by public and private entities alike. I can't see that changing any time soon, so neither will those likely to be entrapped in such legal actions reduce their dependence of warning announcements.
 

bramling

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At last, in post #162, somebody has actually answered the question asked by the OP in the title of the thread, instead of trotting out their long standing whinges about pa announcements.
Harping on about what happened years/decades ago isn't addressing the subject at all, - it's 2022 now and we live in an environment of self-entitlement, blame and litigation by public and private entities alike. I can't see that changing any time soon, so neither will those likely to be entrapped in such legal actions reduce their dependence of warning announcements.

Whilst I agree with the above, this doesn’t make it any less depressing.

In terms of the security stuff, we’ve had this for two decades now, and - like you say - there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it going away any time soon, such that we’re all probably stuck with this for the rest of our respective lifetimes. Changing ways of life is what terrorists want, and we seem to have done exactly that if it’s now the case that we all live in a state of needing to be told to be eternally vigilant.
 

AM9

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Whilst I agree with the above, this doesn’t make it any less depressing.

In terms of the security stuff, we’ve had this for two decades now, and - like you say - there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it going away any time soon, such that we’re all probably stuck with this for the rest of our respective lifetimes. Changing ways of life is what terrorists want, and we seem to have done exactly that if it’s now the case that we all live in a state of needing to be told to be eternally vigilant.
Even though I have never been anywhere near terrorist 'events' and rarely affected by measures taken to deal with the aftermath, I think increased audible (and visual) messaging about them and other hazards is a minor irritation that pales into insignificance compared to the dreadful and often life-changing impact of what they aretrying to prevent. It's a matter of opinion whether the messaging achieves its aim, but much of the debate in this thread is focused on specific personal irritations rather than wholesale assaults on the population's mental health.
 

zwk500

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Whilst I agree with the above, this doesn’t make it any less depressing.

In terms of the security stuff, we’ve had this for two decades now, and - like you say - there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it going away any time soon, such that we’re all probably stuck with this for the rest of our respective lifetimes. Changing ways of life is what terrorists want, and we seem to have done exactly that if it’s now the case that we all live in a state of needing to be told to be eternally vigilant.
Important point - 'the terrorists' all want different things, (different forms of Islam, political agendas, environmental actions, personal vendettas etc) and not all of them want us to change our way of life (some just want to die in a certain way). However the ways we have changed our life satisfy no terrorist at all (we're still the decadent, wasteful, society we always were, just now we have to keep any eye out for lost bags).
 
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