When will excessive announcements cease?

[markymark2000]

Cardiff Central is the other one that I forgot to mention. What a horrible station to be at for announcements.

It announces the next train to arrive around twice I think. Plus it announces when the train is in the platform if there is a bit of a delay between actual arriving and departing time. (Just 1 announcement when the train is approaching and then 3 mins before departure would suffice)
God forbid it's a Great Western Railway IET as the announcements go even longer staying "first class can be found in zones [zones]. Standard Class in zones [zones]. Cycle Spaces in zones [zones] and wheelchair facilities in zones [zones]. Cardiff isn't split into zones. It actually means the carriage letter (so endless amounts of extra information and refers to zones that no one knows exists so it confuses people as well). I timed one of them and a GWR IET to Paddington, the announcement takes 1 minute 50 seconds in all (including saying it in welsh)
Announcing terminating train arriving. A real bugbear for me. By the time they have gone through the announcement, you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a departing train. It's not the normal "the next train at platform x terminates here, please do not board this train", it's "the next train to arrive at platform x is the [time] [operator] service from [origin]. This train will terminate here". It announces far more than it needs to and so has to end the announcement stating the train terminates so that someone doesn't then go to get on the train.
That's all on top of the normal announcements.
Then you've got announcements in both English and Welsh (Despite the vast majority of Wales residents not speaking Welsh but that's another topic).



All of these announcements, and they still don't manage to acknowledge that the 4 main platforms are split into A and B and that trains stop in the A or B parts of the platform and so people go to wait on platform 2 to catch their train and it flies past them and they have to walk to the other end of the platform to catch the train. Platform 3 and 4 are probably the worst as trains stop the furthest points away from the stairs but no one knows that's where trains stop unless you follow the crowd who knows what they are doing or you wait for the train to fly past you and you have to chase after it like a kid chasing a balloon.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Cardiff Central is the other one that I forgot to mention. What a horrible station to be at for announcements.

I live in Cardiff and the announcements aren't that regular, nor are they especially loud. It certainly doesn't feel like noise pollution to me.

Euston has stupid ones that Anne has personalised for that station, ending in "here at Euston station" which are stupid.

There was a horrendous steely deep Scottish voice that used to go "If you are concerned for someone's weeeeelfare," at Kings Cross every five minutes until mid this year.

Liverpool Street continues to have that awful booming "CUSTOMERS are reminded that train doors will be looked shut ..." with the most strange up and down tone reminiscent of a primary school student learning to read. Scrap it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2022 ==

A hugely unnecessary announcement is platform alterations for terminating services. Who cares if it's terminating? And for the minority meeting people off trains, there's a huge chance they didn't have a clue what the original platform was anyway, and could simply wait by the station entrance.

I know I've just said Cardiff Central isn't too bad for noise pollution, but hearing that the terminating service from Ebbw Vale will now arrive on Platform 3 vice 4 is one I do hear regularly.

 

[markymark2000]

A hugely unnecessary announcement is platform alterations for terminating services. Who cares if it's terminating? And for the minority meeting people off trains, there's a huge chance they didn't have a clue what the original platform was anyway, and could simply wait by the station entrance.

I know I've just said Cardiff Central isn't too bad for noise pollution, but hearing that the terminating service from Ebbw Vale will now arrive on Platform 3 vice 4 is one I do hear regularly.

Announcements for terminating trains, beyond 'The next train at platform x terminates here. Please do not board this service' is just excessive. As for meeting people off trains, I think you've got to be looking at less than 10 per day in Cardiff Central. The parking situation doesn't lend itself to people waiting too long and there are barriers to stop people entering without a ticket.

Thankfully, most stations do not announce terminating trains at all. I just wish Cardiff was the same.

 

[TUC]

The vast majority of people can look at the departure boards and note the stations marked with (X).

Then, for the tiny minority that are visually impaired and cannot read the board, those who have assistance will be told by the person giving assistance, and then as I said, announcements can be made on the train as well.

Not every visually impaired person needs assistance to board, but they may still not be able to read a destination board. Announcements of this kind are important.

 

[robert thomas]

Cardiff Central is the other one that I forgot to mention. What a horrible station to be at for announcements.

It announces the next train to arrive around twice I think. Plus it announces when the train is in the platform if there is a bit of a delay between actual arriving and departing time. (Just 1 announcement when the train is approaching and then 3 mins before departure would suffice)
God forbid it's a Great Western Railway IET as the announcements go even longer staying "first class can be found in zones [zones]. Standard Class in zones [zones]. Cycle Spaces in zones [zones] and wheelchair facilities in zones [zones]. Cardiff isn't split into zones. It actually means the carriage letter (so endless amounts of extra information and refers to zones that no one knows exists so it confuses people as well). I timed one of them and a GWR IET to Paddington, the announcement takes 1 minute 50 seconds in all (including saying it in welsh)
Announcing terminating train arriving. A real bugbear for me. By the time they have gone through the announcement, you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a departing train. It's not the normal "the next train at platform x terminates here, please do not board this train", it's "the next train to arrive at platform x is the [time] [operator] service from [origin]. This train will terminate here". It announces far more than it needs to and so has to end the announcement stating the train terminates so that someone doesn't then go to get on the train.
That's all on top of the normal announcements.
Then you've got announcements in both English and Welsh (Despite the vast majority of Wales residents not speaking Welsh but that's another topic).



All of these announcements, and they still don't manage to acknowledge that the 4 main platforms are split into A and B and that trains stop in the A or B parts of the platform and so people go to wait on platform 2 to catch their train and it flies past them and they have to walk to the other end of the platform to catch the train. Platform 3 and 4 are probably the worst as trains stop the furthest points away from the stairs but no one knows that's where trains stop unless you follow the crowd who knows what they are doing or you wait for the train to fly past you and you have to chase after it like a kid chasing a balloon.

Cardiff has zones 1 to 9 clearly marked on the platform surface as do the other stations on the Great Western main lines.The announcements also distinguish between the A and B ends of platforms when appropriate.

 

[py_megapixel]

A hugely unnecessary announcement is platform alterations for terminating services. Who cares if it's terminating? And for the minority meeting people off trains, there's a huge chance they didn't have a clue what the original platform was anyway, and could simply wait by the station entrance.

At Manchester Piccadilly, you often get:
"This is a platform alteration! The 10:43 Northern service from Crewe will now arrive at platform 5!" [pause] "This is a platform alteration! The 11:01 Northern service to Crewe will now depart from platform 5!".

Always seems a bit redundant announcing both (as they're both the same train!), though I suppose it's useful if you're waiting to meet someone.

 

[markymark2000]

Cardiff has zones 1 to 9 clearly marked on the platform surface as do the other stations on the Great Western main lines.The announcements also distinguish between the A and B ends of platforms when appropriate.

In my experience, the zones weren't there or weren't labelled very well. Even if they do exist, in my experience people watching, people tend to ignore the zonal stuff anyway and wait for the train to come in to then go their correct carriage. Therefore, if you are going to announce where facilities are, just give the coach letter.

As for the A and B platforms, they may distinguish occasionally but it's far from as regular as it could be. The amount of trains which show 'Platform 3' but because of how Cardiff works operationally on P1/2/3/4 (all trains go to the extreme end of the platform so another train can call on behind), it will be known around 5 mins in advance if it will be the A or B end of the platform and this can be announced. All too often the A and B isn't announced or it is done on manual announcement during disruption. A and B tend not to be announced though or shown on the screens despite the fact it's clear which platform the train will go into.

 

[TescoHamSalad]

Then you've got announcements in both English and Welsh (Despite the vast majority of Wales residents not speaking Welsh but that's another topic).

Cymraeg has the same legal footing as English in Wales. Given the annual rise in speakers and intrest in it, I think it would be wise to move away from such outdated viewpoints on the Uk's oldest language.

All the stations from Swansea to Newport have the zones for GWR trains clearly labeled on the platform, you can only give the information - passengers can makeup their own mind as to what they do with it.

 

[DoubleLemon]

."

Here's a better version, as seen on the A-Z departure sheet at Exeter Central - "Please tell the on-train staff if you wish to get off the train here".

(I'm not singling out Exeter or GWR, just that I live here now.)

As a content designer that sentence is an affront to the idea of an announcement.

"Pease be aware x is a request stop. If you wish to leave (possibly add "the train" ) at x, please let a member of staff know."

The please is because most people don't hear the first few words. The station name is repeated as you may have missed it the first time.

There is a lot of research done in my field on wording. (I currently work in a software industry that's not transport related)

We do a lot of peer reviews on these types of notices and will get refined a number of times. This was off the top of my head.

 

[mike57]

The problem with incessant massages has been aired before.

If like me you have hearing problems it gets worse, you strain to hear what is said in case its important, and it generally isnt. You then miss an important announcement

https://www.audiology.org/consumers-and-patients/hearing-and-balance/fatigue/ Read this for the impact on concentration/fatigue.

I would argue that having announcements about things beyond the next stop, final desination and possibly intermediate stops and any important changes/information on the current journey should be binned. People just switch off, it becomes information overload. Maybe have a dedicated screen for safety message if you must.

I use noise cancelling earphones when travelling to deal with the fatigue issue, I dont want to spend the whole journey trying to follow the PA annoucements.

All the human factors studies in other industries support the 'information overload' concept, and the current level of 'noise' is probably conterproductive

I would also add that important messages should be prefixed with a 'bing bong' or similar, so that those of us who are hard of hearing can concentrate. (SNCF have got this right)

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

"Headcorn. This is Headcorn. Alight here for bus services to Tenterden. The train now standing at..."

I used to love a good old "X. This is X", but I think their time went with slam-door trains, it seems a lot more difficult to hear platform announcements from inside the train now. And there were stations that were badly configured and the announcement would play before the train had stopped or was even there at all!

did TfL end up keeping "Please hold on while the bus is moving?"

It didn't last long, thankfully. There are a lot more announcements in the system than you regularly hear, including ones for "bus stopping" and other irritations. It's good that in the end things were kept short and sweet following the Paris practice of just saying the name of the stop

Cymraeg has the same legal footing as English in Wales. Given the annual rise in speakers and intrest in it, I think it would be wise to move away from such outdated viewpoints on the Uk's oldest language.

Apart from its legal and cultural importance - and I don't mean this to sound too patronising - I like to hear these Welsh announcements as it helps me learn some new words and place names. Much nicer on the ears than the extra "balls in a vice" messages available across the border

 

[TescoHamSalad]

Apart from its legal and cultural importance - and I don't mean this to sound too patronising - I like to hear these Welsh announcements as it helps me learn some new words and place names. Much nicer on the ears than the extra "balls in a vice" messages available across the border

You're not, don't worry! I'm glad you find it useful, kinda that whole point of announcements eh?

 

[Horizon22]

To answer the OP - they won't so long as the DfT continue to mandate certain announcements to operators such as tactile paving, security (See It, Say It Sorted) announcements at set intervals, and CCTV recording to name a few.

Then there's the general trend from different parts of a company that the answer of wider publicity should be "let's get an announcement out about X or Y" and this adds to the clutter. People then complain if they are removed/not playing and that they didn't know about X or Y so you can't win. In addition there can be litigation issues such as "why wasn't a wet weather announcement playing when this person slipped and it was wet?" and such nonsense.

This is another issue whereby the DfT likes to blame operators for carrying out instructions they have themselves imposed or it was a glib comment from a politician.

 

[londonmidland]

Then you have the complete opposite at Birmingham New Street where they silenced their auto P.A a few years ago, only to replace it with manual announcements which are of questionable quality to say the least.

 

[zwk500]

Then you have the complete opposite at Birmingham New Street where they silenced their auto P.A a few years ago, only to replace it with manual announcements which are of questionable quality to say the least.

To be fair, New Street is so busy and has the two worst possible acoustic environments (Massive space with flat, hard floors on the main concourse, low long boxy tubes at the platforms usually with a diesel unit chugging away) that it's pretty much impossible to have audible and informative announcements anyway.

 

[Purple Train]

For through trains (under normal circumstances), one announcement a couple of minutes before the train arrives (with wording A) and one when the train is approaching (with wording B) will suffice.
For originating trains (under normal circumstances), one announcement around three minutes before departure (with wording C) would probably suffice.
For terminating trains, one announcement as the train arrives (with wording D) would be quite enough, although wording B would probably be better if it forms another working.
As for "See It, Say It, Sorted"-type announcements, perhaps each could be placed on a 15-minute cycle?

Personally, I think that cutting down on announcements for the sake of cutting down on announcements isn't sensible - the majority of it is useful information. I also like a fairly active tannoy as a station in complete silence feels desolate - though not always in a bad way. I don't see any real solution to cutting down announcements involving request stops - you can't really not announce which stations are on request. Out of interest, how long is the announcement at Swansea for a Heart of Wales line train?

One related thing that should be cut down on is the adverts on GA Class 745 PIS systems (do 755s have the same system?) It's really annoying having to watch streams of GA adverts in order to see the due arrival time at Colchester.

Wording A: The next train to arrive at platform 4 will be the 13.21 Avanti West Coast service to London Euston. Calling at: Coventry, Milton Keynes Central, and London Euston. This service is formed of 10 coaches. First class is towards the front and middle of the train.
Wording B: Platform 7 for the 14.15 London Northwestern Railway service to London Euston. Calling at: London Euston only. This service is formed of 8 coaches. Platform 7 for the 14.15 London Northwestern Railway service to London Euston.
Wording C: The train at platform 1 is the 10.21 Great Western Railway service to Exeter St Davids. Calling at: Lympstone Village, Lympstone Commando, Exton, Topsham, Newcourt, Digby & Sowton, Polsloe Bridge, St James's Park, Exeter Central, and Exeter St Davids. This service is formed of 4 coaches. Please note that Lympstone Commando and and Exton are request stops. You must inform the conductor if you wish to alight. Platform 1 for the 10.21 Great Western Railway service to Exeter St Davids.
Wording D: The train now approaching platform 2 terminates here. Please do not attempt to board this train.

However, ultimately, people are a bit more likely to listen to a live human voice than a pre-recorded one, provided the sound quality is decent.

 

[Starmill]

Barmouth was quite funny. During the Cambrian blocks, the station endlessly announces 'due to engineering works this weekend, some times may be changed'. There are no block anywhere near the Cambrian other than the ongoing block. It's a useless announcement.

That announcement is quite annoying when it gets played everywhere, all the time, including at the weekend, because it says: "Due to essential engineering work, many trains are revised for the coming weekend, and passengers are advised to check their journey." - it doesn't even tell you how to check your journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2022 ==

you can only give the information - passengers can makeup their own mind as to what they do with it.

The problem is that the information is read out far too quickly for people to actually be able to take it in, and there is far too much of it all in one go.

 

[Scott1]

That announcement is quite annoying when it gets played everywhere, all the time, including at the weekend, because it says: "Due to essential engineering work, many trains are revised for the coming weekend, and passengers are advised to check their journey." - it doesn't even tell you how to check your journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2022 ==


The problem is that the information is read out far too quickly for people to actually be able to take it in, and there is far too much of it all in one go.

Isn't this an example of the challenge? You have complained that the first announcement doesn't give you enough information (how to check your journey), then complained there is too much information too quickly. It hard to see how the balance will ever be what everyone wants.

 

[crablab]

NS don't have regular platform announcements - only for changes, delays or cancellations.

On train announcements are generally manual and limited to the next stop and perhaps information about connections, or likewise if there is a change/delay/cancellation. Automated announcements are similarly brief.

Overall it contributes to a much more relaxing and pleasant journey.

People do not need to be told to hold the handrail or watch out because it has rained. The cacophony is often unintelligible anyway and "see it say it sorted" has turned into a meme, so I don't know what it achieves.

I found the announcements on the Elizabeth Line platforms particularly annoying recently - they were manual, frequent and loud, letting us know the train would be arriving in a decreasing number of minutes. In the nicest possible way: please shut up and let us get on with our day!

 

[Starmill]

Isn't this an example of the challenge? You have complained that the first announcement doesn't give you enough information (how to check your journey), then complained there is too much information too quickly. It hard to see how the balance will ever be what everyone wants.

I disagree. The first announcement is something which shouldn't really be in an announcement at all. A combination of posters, email and web pages is accessible enough and noticeable enough. A general announcement about engineering work is useless, as the customer still needs to make further enquiries and it plays at silly times, but takes up people's limited attention.

It's possible that if an announcement about forthcoming engineering work is both succinct and specific, and is either only played in the days immediately leading up to the work, or as part of an advance notice campaign for a large block where the announcement changes depending on how long it is until the work starts, then that will catch people's attention and be genuinely useful. A good example of this is SWT for the London Waterloo closures in 2017.

 

[Dr_Paul]

As for "See It, Say It, Sorted"-type announcements, perhaps each could be placed on a 15-minute cycle?

I'd have it scrapped altogether. These days I travel only occasionally on the train, once in a while up to London and the odd local journey, and hearing it after each stop en route is very irritating. What it must be like for regular commuters I'd hate to think. Does it actually serve any useful purpose?

 

[bramling]

I disagree. The first announcement is something which shouldn't really be in an announcement at all. A combination of posters, email and web pages is accessible enough and noticeable enough. A general announcement about engineering work is useless, as the customer still needs to make further enquiries and it plays at silly times, but takes up people's limited attention.

It's possible that if an announcement about forthcoming engineering work is both succinct and specific, and is either only played in the days immediately leading up to the work, or as part of an advance notice campaign for a large block where the announcement changes depending on how long it is until the work starts, then that will catch people's attention and be genuinely useful. A good example of this is SWT for the London Waterloo closures in 2017.

With smart phones now being pretty much universal, and it even being possible to tap into elements of station CIS systems (for example the Worldline information screens), it does seem to be approaching the point where we can reasonable ask the question as to whether routine station announcements are necessary *at all*.

I’m not sure I would actually go quite that far, however one announcement per train in a John Elgar or Phil Sayer type voice seems reasonable to me.

The industry‘s obsession with announcements is but another symptom of weak leadership - and that includes from the DFT downwards.

 

[43066]

it does seem to be approaching the point where we can reasonable ask the question as to whether routine station announcements are necessary *at all*.

You’d like to think so, but smartphones seem to have dumbed people down to the stage where they struggle to interpret any external source of information and lack the ability to work things out for themselves. Then again that demonstrably also includes audio announcements, so QED to your suggestion that they serve little useful purpose!

 

[bramling]

You’d like to think so, but smartphones seem to have dumbed people down to the stage where they struggle to interpret any external source of information and lack the ability to work things out for themselves. Then again that demonstrably also includes audio announcements, so QED to your point!

Perhaps people might have to learn to seek out and interpret information. Is this not what schools should be teaching people as part of life preparation?

Of course, having people seek out information isn’t what politicians want, as it makes it rather harder to feed people a manipulative agenda. Funny that all this seems to have started under New Labour, probably the most manipulative government ever.

 

[43066]

Is this not what schools should be teaching people as part of life preparation?

Is used to be. I’m not so sure these days. Of course exactly the same could be said of universities.

Of course, having people seek out information isn’t what politicians want, as it makes it rather harder to feed people a manipulative agenda. Funny that all this seems to have started under New Labour, probably the most manipulative government ever.

Agreed. People being treated like mushrooms (ie kept in the dark and fed you know what) started with them and hasn’t really let up since they left office. I suppose keeping the population fearful and paranoid is attractive to politicians of all hues, as Covid has shown…

“See it. Say it. Sorted”.

 

[crablab]

it does seem to be approaching the point where we can reasonable ask the question as to whether routine station announcements are necessary *at all*.

There may be an accessibility need for some announcements, but I think those would be more useful in the very minimal form.

Announcing the destination, arrival time, all the stops, the "zones" etc... It's not useful and harms accessibility in some cases (information overload, competing announcements).

 

[Pit_buzzer]

My last few visits to Doncaster, one of the last stations with fully live announcements have revealed a worrying new trend. Very long and complex announcements listing which coach letters align with which numbered zones on the platform. So, you get a time, a platform, a destination, the calling points, then a list of coach letters and zone numbers, it's way to much information to take in and is even worse when a 9 car substitutes for a 10 or vice versa and they try to get across all the changes to coaches and zones. They go on forever, very often garbled as quickly as possible and I can't imagine anyone listens to pick out the bit that applies to them

 

[bramling]

Is used to be. I’m not so sure these days. Of course exactly the same could be said of universities.



Agreed. People being treated like mushrooms (ie kept in the dark and fed you know what) started with them and hasn’t really let up since they left office. I suppose keeping the population fearful and paranoid is attractive to politicians of all hues, as Covid has shown…

“See it. Say it. Sorted”.

Yes it only took the population 3 elections to see through Blair, when he showed his true colours by becoming complacent and slipping up over the “sexed up dossier”. Fortunately some of us have long memories. I am proud to say my household never voted New Labour, indeed the period is a salient lesson of unintended consequences when people vote en-masse in protest.

As to more recent governments, I suppose activities like using train services are a bit too “plebby” for them to worry about. Indeed the government of the last couple of years seems to be attempting everything possible to discourage people from using rail.

It’s pretty discouraging that our tax has been spent on the DFT preparing and sending out wave files to railway operators, specifically the security message, and specifying when and where it needs to be played. Great use of our tax revenue that really is. It’s always very pleasing seeing some drivers hit the PA button at the right moment to inhibit the announcement.

 

[londonmidland]

With smart phones now being pretty much universal, and it even being possible to tap into elements of station CIS systems (for example the Worldline information screens)

How is this done, out of Interest? I know this website exists, if you're referring to that?

 

[bramling]

How is this done, out of Interest? I know this website exists, if you're referring to that?

Yes that’s what I was referring to. I’ve no idea how it came to be, however it’s extremely useful.