When can you sit in First class ?

[Flamingo]

On the occasion in question, apart from it being crammed (with football supporters) even if the guard/ticket collector had managed to fight his way through the train it would not have been very prudent for him to have asked for tickets.
Incidentally the police directed people to just get on the train wherever wanting to just clear the platform (hence the train being sardine-like). If the police do order people in a situation similar to that to board a first class carriage do they have that right to declassify it in an attempt to prevent any possibility of public order offences arising ?

It's a bit case by case, but the majority of trains are just a case of commuters can't be bothered to walk further down the platform.

For example, I had a guy a few weeks ago who said he couldn't get through, I said any muppet could get through and walked down to check tickets in STD, the guy managed to follow in my footsteps for a carriage and a half demanding to know what I called him and what my name was. When I eventually stopped, I pointed out to him that he had managed to walk unhindered through two carriages, and I think that proved my point. I don't know if a complaint ever did come in.

After kicking all the standees out of First, I usually walk to coach A doing a headcount and airing the uniform a bit. I might find anything up to 80-90 empty seats on board. I usually announce it.

 

[infobleep]

Hi there

Out of interest are are the 7.39 and 8.39 trains from Clapham Junction to Milton Keynes declassified for first class. Are trains ever declassified for parts of journeys, similar to how penalty fares only exist for parts of journeys, e.g. Gatwick Express trains starting and finishing in Brighton.

If the services are not declassified, are there any estimates as to how many people, assuming they are, might be travelling illegally in first class each week day morning? Also what are Southern doing to stamp it out, such as fining people. I'm referring in particular to the part of the journey between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush, where it is packed to the point of people not being able to board the train. It would also be possible to list equivalent return services in the evening, such as the 17.59 from Harrow and Wealdstone, that is packed from Shepherds Bush.

 

[AlterEgo]

Out of interest are are the 7.39 and 8.39 trains from Clapham Junction to Milton Keynes declassified for first class.

A check of the timetable says no.

Also what are Southern doing to stamp it out, such as fining people.

A TOC cannot fine someone. That's the job of a court of Law.

I'm referring in particular to the part of the journey between Clapham Junction and Shepherds Bush

A check of the timetable suggests trains which start at Clapham and terminate at Shepherd's Bush are declassified. Through trains are not declassified.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for your reply AlterEgo.

I wouldn't be surprised if some passengers were travelling in first class when their tickets are not valid for it, either sitting or even standing. Perhaps Southern should get some revenue protection staff on the train to check, although how they would actually get on the train to check and issues any potential penalty fare notices is another matter!

I guess it's a bit like asking what are train companies doing to stop people smoking at unmanned train stations. I.e. it's that easy for them to do anything, given it's unmanned. I once saw someone smoking at one but it was late so I wasn't going to say anything.

 

[yorkie]

If the train is so busy that people are struggling to board, I would expect First Class to be declassified. It shouldn't ever be the case that people are prevented from boarding while there is space in 1st class. I see this on TPE a lot; it becomes declassified on some busy tries by default as people are unable to move anywhere else! When the train empties a bit the guard may inform people 1st class is being enforced after that point.