When can you sit in First class ?

[TonyStevens]

Hi All

I have been told it is possible to sometimes sit in first class without the first class ticket?

Is this true, and if so how do you know when it is ok to do so?


I have seen people do this before where they have produced a orange ticket and the gaurd checks it and moves on.

Other times I have seen chavs sit in first class who obviously dont have a job let alone a first class rail fare and get checked and nothing is said.

 

[yorkie]

If you are asking if some Standard Class tickets are valid in 1st class, the answer is yes: Anytime Single & Returns are valid in 1st class on Virgin Trains services at weekends. Those are the only ones I am aware of for single & return tickets, however I believe some operators allow Standard Class Season ticket holders to use 1st class at weekends (e.g. TPE)

(Note: Anytime Day Single & Returns are not officially included, however some guards will honour them anyway as the ruling is unclear on this. Note that a forum member is challenging this, and as a result it is possible - though unlikely - that Day tickets may be included in the future. It is also possible - and rather more likely IMO - that the concession will be withdrawn as a result of this complaint)

 

[Temple Meads]

Some trains have First Class compartments, but the TOC running the train have declassified it to Standard, however you don't always know when this is the case.
You can buy a weekend First Class upgrade on some TOC's services, this is generally very good value.

 

[AlterEgo]

1. Using a Std Anytime ticket at the weekend with Virgin

2. If the First Class section has been "declassified" by the guard

 

[Minilad]

If you are asking if some Standard Class tickets are valid in 1st class, the answer is yes: Anytime Single & Returns are valid in 1st class on Virgin Trains services at weekends. Those are the only ones I am aware of for single & return tickets, however I believe some operators allow Standard Class Season ticket holders to use 1st class at weekends (TPE might do that?)

(Note: Anytime Day Single & Returns are not officially included, however some guards will honour them anyway as the ruling is unclear on this. Note that a forum member is challenging this, and as a result it is possible - though unlikely - that Day tickets may be included in the future. It is also possible - and rather more likely IMO - that the concession will be withdrawn as a result of this complaint)

Seeing as a PRIV ticket is essentially an Anytime ticket are they included in this

 

[yorkie]

2. If the First Class section has been "declassified" by the guard

True, but then it's not 1st class accommodation technically!
(Though try telling NXEA that....:roll

 

[First class]

Seeing as a PRIV ticket is essentially an Anytime ticket are they included in this

A Priv rate Anytime Single or Return is valid in 1st on a weekend. Free boxes, no.

I think everybody is supposed to ask the Train Manager first though, at least, you used to anyway.

 

[AlterEgo]

Seeing as a PRIV ticket is essentially an Anytime ticket are they included in this

Yes. Definitely. A Priv Anytime ticket does not cease to be an Anytime ticket simply because it's discounted.

Expect to be at the 'back of the queue' if space is limited in First though.

 

[Minilad]

Thats good to know. Not that I use Vermin regularly but you never know !!

 

[Liam]

If a unit with a first class compartment is used on a service advertised as no first class.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If a unit with a first class compartment is used on a service advertised as no first class.

Unless the service in question is run by NXEA

 

[AlterEgo]

I think everybody is supposed to ask the Train Manager first though, at least, you used to anyway.

There is a specific easement relating to STD Anytimes in First at the weekend. Permission is not required per se, but it would be considered polite to ask if you had a Priv ticket, as it's heavily discounted, and other customers who might have paid more (or be willing to buy an upgrade!) may be denied the opportunity if there is limited space.

 

[RJ]

If a unit with a first class compartment is used on a service advertised as no first class.

I think this is the answer the OP was looking for. For example, most Southern metro services are advertised as standard class only, but use Class 377s which have First Class compartments. CIS screens on stations clearly advertise that the First Class accomodation may be used by standard class ticket holders.

 

[First class]

There is a specific easement relating to STD Anytimes in First at the weekend. Permission is not required per se, but it would be considered polite to ask if you had a Priv ticket, as it's heavily discounted, and other customers who might have paid more (or be willing to buy an upgrade!) may be denied the opportunity if there is limited space.

PRIV fares may be heavily discounted, but unfortunately remain quite unaffordable.

£65.25 Liverpool to London is £20 more expensive than what a YP Railcard holder would pay for the same train.

Either way, I like the SAT DAY TCD product.

 

[Liam]

I think this is the answer the OP was looking for. For example, most Southern metro services are advertised as standard class only, but use Class 377s which have First Class compartments. CIS screens on stations clearly advertise that the First Class accomodation may be used by standard class ticket holders.

Also some of the 158's used on the Kyle and Far North Lines.

 

[RJ]

PRIV fares may be heavily discounted, but unfortunately remain quite unaffordable.

£65.25 Liverpool to London is £20 more expensive than what a YP Railcard holder would pay for the same train.

Either way, I like the SAT DAY TCD product.

Where long distance PRIV is involved, spilt ticketing is definitely your friend . Splitting at Runcorn and Stafford shaves just over 10% off that. Just had a very brief look on Avantix and I can legitimately get that down to £36.

 

[AlterEgo]

Either way, I like the SAT DAY TCD product.

It's a good product - provided you get a clerk who knows how to sell it!

 

[anthony263]

What about SWT's class 158/159's that are used on Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton Central- Chandlers Ford & Salisbury - Portsmouth Hbr services?

 

[RJ]

What about SWT's class 158/159's that are used on Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton Central- Chandlers Ford & Salisbury - Portsmouth Hbr services?

You have to check the timetable to see if the trains are shown as conveying First Class accomodation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a good product - provided you get a clerk who knows how to sell it!

Easy peasy

 

[Firestarter]

Where long distance PRIV is involved, spilt ticketing is definitely your friend . Splitting at Runcorn and Stafford shaves just over 10% off that. Just had a very brief look on Avantix and I can legitimately get that down to £36.

London-Liverpool with a PRIV, do I ask at the ticket office for a London-Runcorn/Stafford return and a Stafford/Runcorn-Liverpool return?
Sorry never done split ticketing before.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Also when the train is too crowded - although technically I believe you could be excessed for standing in the vestibule of a 1st class carriage I was once herded on to one where it was physically impossible to move to the next carriage.

 

[Flamingo]

Also when the train is too crowded - although technically I believe you could be excessed for standing in the vestibule of a 1st class carriage I was once herded on to one where it was physically impossible to move to the next carriage.

Technically nothing, I threaten people with it every day . They usually find somewhere else to move to. I work on the principle that if I can get through, they can. The odd one decides they want to take it up with RPI's at Pad or Reading, at which point they learn that Penalty Fares apply.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

So when walking through to the front of the train on the approach to Paddington had best go no further than the buffet car in future.
(depending which way round the set is of course)

...was watching an old re-run of The Saint where he was supposed to be on a train somewhere on France (more likely a backlot in Elstree with some sporadic train film thrown in) where he had to clamber round the outside of the train to avoid some goons. If one was outside clinging to a 1st class carriage could you still be excessed for the full 1st fare?

 

[tony_mac]

you can't remain in first class, there is nothing to stop you passing through.

you just have to time it so that you arrive at the front as the train stops!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

you can't remain in first class, there is nothing to stop you passing through.

you just have to time it so that you arrive at the front as the train stops!

So clambering along the outside would be better then as it would take longer.

 

[Bungle73]

Also when the train is too crowded - although technically I believe you could be excessed for standing in the vestibule of a 1st class carriage I was once herded on to one where it was physically impossible to move to the next carriage.

I noticed they have signs to that effect in the vestibules of EC FC carriages.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Technically nothing, I threaten people with it every day :They usually find somewhere else to move to. I work .

On the occasion in question, apart from it being crammed (with football supporters) even if the guard/ticket collector had managed to fight his way through the train it would not have been very prudent for him to have asked for tickets.
Incidentally the police directed people to just get on the train wherever wanting to just clear the platform (hence the train being sardine-like). If the police do order people in a situation similar to that to board a first class carriage do they have that right to declassify it in an attempt to prevent any possibility of public order offences arising ?

 

[Oswyntail]

.....

Other times I have seen chavs sit in first class who obviously dont have a job let alone a first class rail fare and get checked and nothing is said.

The little blighters were not wearing a jacket and tie!
If they were checked and nothing was said, I suspect they had the correct ticket.

 

[TEW]

What about SWT's class 158/159's that are used on Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton Central- Chandlers Ford & Salisbury - Portsmouth Hbr services?

They all have First Class, not that I've ever seen anyone using it.

 

[jon0844]

Other times I have seen chavs sit in first class who obviously dont have a job let alone a first class rail fare and get checked and nothing is said.

I am not sure revenue inspectors or guards actually check whether someone has a job or not. I've never been asked to show a payslip or my union membership card!

In these circumstances, as long as they have a valid ticket then that's fine with me. I can judge them on how scruffy/rude/arrogant they are another time!

I think this is the answer the OP was looking for. For example, most Southern metro services are advertised as standard class only, but use Class 377s which have First Class compartments. CIS screens on stations clearly advertise that the First Class accomodation may be used by standard class ticket holders.

Damn shame for those who could keep this little secret to themselves! FCC still don't advertise the declassified services, but as they now have 321s almost exclusively on the peak services once used occasionally by 313s, I am sure that in the next timetable change (or the one after), this little benefit on many morning and afternoon trains will disappear.