Wheelchair space on train

[edwin_m]

Generally speaking, a wheelchair space is for one wheelchair as the chair faces backwards and the back of the chair needs to be next to a support in case of heavy braking, so he won't go flying if his chair brakes aren't the best.

This is true on buses, but trains go in both directions and their maximum braking is much less. I don't believe the wheelchair positioning depends at all on the direction the train is running, and there is normally no restraint for the wheelchair. So this ought to mean that it is safe to park a wheelchair anywhere on a train, as long as other people can get past it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is true on buses, but trains go in both directions and their maximum braking is much less. I don't believe the wheelchair positioning depends at all on the direction the train is running, and there is normally no restraint for the wheelchair. So this ought to mean that it is safe to park a wheelchair anywhere on a train, as long as other people can get past it.

Agreed. If we started now I don't think standing would be allowed on buses, and seat-belts would be required. Whereas I would expect it would still be allowed on regional trains.
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But if an able bodied passenger injures themselves getting off a train because the train is carrying more bicycles than it is allowed by the rules, who is to blame?

Possibly a bit of both; the additional bicycles should not have been present, but because they were the passenger should not have taken a dangerous action to pass them but should instead have requested they be moved, and if this were not the case have contacted staff, if necessary (I'm aware this is somewhat debatable on here, but I would, and have done in not dissimilar circumstances, and was not told off for it) used the red handle to ensure the train did not depart while staff were contacted to resolve the problem.

Is it OK, therefore, that the second wheelchair user was blocking the way? No. Should the first wheelchair user have taken a dangerous action to attempt to pass, particularly where a member of staff was on hand who could have resolved the situation, and would not have let the train go? No, and so they must take the blame for most of the injury which was caused primarily by their own negligence.

If on the other hand the member of staff was not willing to resolve the situation, and was for example hurrying wheelchair user 1 on, or would not ask wheelchair user 2 to move, a formal complaint needs to be made. But this seems unlikely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is plenty of room for two wheelchairs on 156s, the issue is that the vestibule is very narrow. Northern have taken seats out at that end of the carriage to provide a little bit more room, although Scotrail haven't. I have to say that if the OP's friend tried to barge past the other wheelchair user then really it's their own fault, they should have waited for the other person to move.

There is no limit to the amount of wheelchairs that can be carried on a train AFAIK, the issue is whether there is room for them to be carried safely.

The main problem with the 156 is that the bit with all the room is at the opposite end of the train to the toilet and the ramp.

 

[LowLevel]

All trains are rated for a certain number of wheelchairs. On unmodified class 153/6/8 units it's one.

 

[Tetchytyke]

All trains are rated for a certain number of wheelchairs. On unmodified class 153/6/8 units it's one.

Is that a maximum or minimum number?

I always thought it was a minimum number, but I'm quite happy to be corrected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wheelchair2 and conductor were aware friend was trying to get off train, as conductor had the ramp placed. wheelchair2 however didn't really want to move that much and wouldn't get off the train to allow friend off.

As this isn't a normal nor a visible condition, did your friend make the conductor aware of this, and tell him that he had to provide a solution, such as requiring the other passenger to alight to let him off and that the train would not be moving until such time as he did?

If the conductor was made aware of it and did not act appropriately to resolve the situation, I think you may have a good case for at least a formal complaint, possibly more, though you would have to consult a legal professional to determine that.

Someone with an uncommon medical condition making them more vulnerable to injury cannot assume that others know this.

(Please ignore the smiley at the top, I have no idea how that got there and I can't get rid of it!)
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I know the OP says his friend was getting off, but what would have happened if Wheelchair User 2 had boarded and was not in a wheelchair space and an accident occurred resulting in death of Wheelchair 2- would the TOC be liable for damages and charges or the guard?

An interesting question. However I can't think of many cases where a collision would cause death of a wheelchair user in the vestibule when it wouldn't cause death of a standing able-bodied person in an otherwise identical medical condition, so the wheelchair would be irrelevant. A wheelchair user may, for instance, not be able to exit a train unaided in the event of a serious fire, but then that applies whether they are in the wheelchair space or not.

The wheelchair could itself cause injury, but then so could luggage placed in the same location, or a bicycle. Restraints are not always provided for the latter.

So I would conclude there is nothing special surrounding a wheelchair that would lead that way.

 

[LowLevel]

Is that a maximum or minimum number?

I always thought it was a minimum number, but I'm quite happy to be corrected.

It's meant to be the maximum taking into account the design of the units for things like safe refuge in an emergency (wheelchair users are only to be detrained if there's an immediate risk to their safety) and egress past the wheelchair user.

That's why PRM TSI specifies an increased number (at least two spaces?).

Having more than one wheelchair user on a 156 starts to make things difficult squeezing between them and the toilet door.

Each unit is rated accordingly and the number of wheelchairs that can be conveyed etc should be in the TOC's Disabled Persons Protection Policy (certainly the EMT one as an example contains a breakdown of each unit's capabilities).