Wheelchair space on train

[mbreckers]

Hi folks,

Got a question regarding the wheelchair space on trains.

It's in relation to a journey I took on a ScotRail Class 156 last week.

As it was a single set, there was only one wheelchair space on the train.

There was already a wheelchair user on the train and he had booked assistance in advance.

Another wheelchair user rocked up and boarded the train.

The conductor allowed the second wheelchair on the train. Second wheelchair user was getting off at a later station to me and my friend.

Anyway, in the process of getting off the train, my friend (the first wheelchair user) was injured because the vestibule was blocked by the second wheelchair user, and ended up needing to attend A&E.

Anybody know what the policy is regarding the number of wheelchairs on trains if there are not enough wheelchair spaces?

TIA

 

[Johncleesefan]

So how many wheelchair users were there on the train? And how did your friend get injured?

 

[mbreckers]

So how many wheelchair users were there on the train? And how did your friend get injured?

Well there was two, and he was injured because the second wheelchair user was partially blocking the exit of the train

 

[Johncleesefan]

Did he disembark himself from the train to the platform or was there assistance?

 

[mbreckers]

There was assistance (the conductor brought the ramp)

 

[route:oxford]

Well there was two, and he was injured because the second wheelchair user was partially blocking the exit of the train

Did the other wheelchair user attack him?

Or was it carelessness of the user?

 

[mbreckers]

It wasn't carelessness, it was the fact the second user was blocking the vestibule area, and my friend struggled to get past him to get off in his wheelchair. The vestibule area on 156's ain't exactly big

 

[Quakkerillo]

If it was impossible for him to get off easily, and seeing that the guard/conductor was there to help, so the train wouldn't immediately drive off, could neither the conductor, nor your friend have asked the other wheelchair user to leave the train using the ramp, so your friend could leave?
If that wasn't asked, and it wasn't clear to the other people involved that issues were had with leaving the train, then I think it's mostly going to come down to your friend.

 

[Surreytraveller]

It would be unlawful to deny anyone access to the train because they are a wheelchair user, regardless of how many wheelchair spaces there are or aren't.

 

[Johncleesefan]

No, it would be the law to only allow one wheelchair user on board at a time should there only be one wheelchair space

 

[Antman]

It would be unlawful to deny anyone access to the train because they are a wheelchair user, regardless of how many wheelchair spaces there are or aren't.

That is simply absurd, no bus or train can accommodate an unlimited number of wheelchairs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, it would be the law to only allow one wheelchair user on board at a time should there only be one wheelchair space

It's the same on buses, I hope the conductor doesn't get into trouble over this, he probably just bent the rules to avoid leaving a wheelchair user behind

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was impossible for him to get off easily, and seeing that the guard/conductor was there to help, so the train wouldn't immediately drive off, could neither the conductor, nor your friend have asked the other wheelchair user to leave the train using the ramp, so your friend could leave?
If that wasn't asked, and it wasn't clear to the other people involved that issues were had with leaving the train, then I think it's mostly going to come down to your friend.

This. Why did your friend not tell the guard that there was insufficient space to fit past, and insist that the other user alighted to let him past then re-boarded?

That's no different to the situation of a full-and-standing train where able-bodied people have to disembark to let other people off then re-board, really, particularly as assistance was available in the form of the guard.

It strikes me that the OP's friend deliberately took a dangerous action, which resulted in their injury. A bit of co-operation between both wheelchair users and the guard would have resulted in both passengers being able to travel with neither injury nor inconvenience.

 

[yorkie]

If there was insufficient space this would need to be brought to someone's attention, if you just plough through regardless, or misjudge the space, it's your own fault, surely?

Did he know there was insufficient space?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Perhaps this guard had had trouble concerning a wheelchair user and therefore didn't want more?

 

[Jonfun]

Has the seemingly quite serious injury been reported through the proper channels to the train company itself before you posted on here?

 

[TUC]

If an able bodied passenger has to squeeze past another passenger and gets injured, is it automatically the responsibility of the train staff or the other passenger? Of course not. There are circumstances where it could be, but it does not automatically follow. The same is true of two wheelchair based passengers. Frankly, disabled passengers need people to be flexible and helpful, such as accomodating two wheelchairs, rather than having someone leaping to make a fuss the moment an issue arises.

 

[Kite159]

*Delete*

Misread original post

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was the station local door only?

As the last time I checked a 156 has 4 available doors (on each side), so if one was blocked by the 2nd wheelchair, couldn't your friend use another door to depart the train?

The aisle and corridor connection of a Class 156 are too narrow for a wheelchair to pass through. The injured party was in a wheelchair. I'm guessing they perhaps, while going past the other wheelchair, caught on it and ended up falling out of their chair or similar.

The Class 156 has the wheelchair end vestibule door at one side of the train, rather than in the middle, due to the positioning of the toilet. I guess therefore that wheelchair 2 was by the door, and wheelchair 1 needed to pass in order to alight through the door on the other side, that's the only permutation I can think of where there would be only just (or only just not) enough space to pass. I can see the problem. I can think of only 2 ways to solve it - wheelchair user 2 alights and reboards, or wheelchair user 2 moves into the saloon, enters the accessible bog, wheelchair user 1 passes, wheelchair user 2 moves to the wheelchair space. If a busy train this might require a few able bodied people to move, of course.

 

[40129]

That might be a bit difficult as the center aisle in a Cl-156 is likely to be too narrow for a wheelchair to fit. Especially if anyone is standing in it

 

[Kite159]

The aisle and corridor connection of a Class 156 are too narrow for a wheelchair to pass through. The injured party was in a wheelchair. I'm guessing they perhaps, while going past the other wheelchair, caught on it and ended up falling out of their chair or similar.

My bad, I misread the original post

(Thinking the person who got injured was an able bodied person trying to get pass the 2nd wheelchair rather than being the 1st wheelchair user)

 

[Bletchleyite]

My bad, I misread the original post

(Thinking the person who got injured was an able bodied person trying to get pass the 2nd wheelchair rather than being the 1st wheelchair user)

Yes, I read it that way first as well, but deleted my post, so it was quite a reasonable reading I guess

 

[Llanigraham]

Lots of guesses on here.
We need a lot more details from the OP before we can make a reasoned response.

 

[mbreckers]

The aisle and corridor connection of a Class 156 are too narrow for a wheelchair to pass through. The injured party was in a wheelchair. I'm guessing they perhaps, while going past the other wheelchair, caught on it and ended up falling out of their chair or similar.

The Class 156 has the wheelchair end vestibule door at one side of the train, rather than in the middle, due to the positioning of the toilet. I guess therefore that wheelchair 2 was by the door, and wheelchair 1 needed to pass in order to alight through the door on the other side, that's the only permutation I can think of where there would be only just (or only just not) enough space to pass. I can see the problem. I can think of only 2 ways to solve it - wheelchair user 2 alights and reboards, or wheelchair user 2 moves into the saloon, enters the accessible bog, wheelchair user 1 passes, wheelchair user 2 moves to the wheelchair space. If a busy train this might require a few able bodied people to move, of course.

Basically this.

I should have explained better in my OP, friend has EDS which basically means his joints dislocate more easily that normal (similar to Hypermobility Syndrome). In the process of trying to get off the train, he's basically been knocked because of the limited space trying to get past wheelchair2, both knees have dislocated, requiring trip to A&E.

Wheelchair2 and conductor were aware friend was trying to get off train, as conductor had the ramp placed. wheelchair2 however didn't really want to move that much and wouldn't get off the train to allow friend off.

 

[Llanigraham]

Basically this.

I should have explained better in my OP, friend has EDS which basically means his joints dislocate more easily that normal (similar to Hypermobility Syndrome). In the process of trying to get off the train, he's basically been knocked because of the limited space trying to get past wheelchair2, both knees have dislocated, requiring trip to A&E.

Wheelchair2 and conductor were aware friend was trying to get off train, as conductor had the ramp placed. wheelchair2 however didn't really want to move that much and wouldn't get off the train to allow friend off.

Have you reported this to the train company?
Who do you think is at fault? The guard, the other wheelchair user, or the train operator?

 

[455driver]

It would be unlawful to deny anyone access to the train because they are a wheelchair user, regardless of how many wheelchair spaces there are or aren't.

No it wouldn't, the same rules apply as for every other passenger, if the train is full then the train is full!

 

[miami]

If an able bodied person can't easily exit a train due to overcrowding and inconsiderate passengers, shoves past someone, and then injures themselves, who is to blame?

 

[Jonfun]

But if an able bodied passenger injures themselves getting off a train because the train is carrying more bicycles than it is allowed by the rules, who is to blame?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Have you reported this to the train company?
Who do you think is at fault? The guard, the other wheelchair user, or the train operator?

I'd say the guard because he/she is supposed to ensure the safety of the train

No, it would be the law to only allow one wheelchair user on board at a time should there only be one wheelchair space

I know the OP says his friend was getting off, but what would have happened if Wheelchair User 2 had boarded and was not in a wheelchair space and an accident occurred resulting in death of Wheelchair 2- would the TOC be liable for damages and charges or the guard?

 

[Anvil1984]

There is nothing on a Scotrail 156 which prohibits the second wheelchair from being carried. I'm on one now and there's a stick on the narrower side saying "this space is reserved for wheelchair users" it may mean for the first wheelchairs movement but does not specifically say that. It just needed more cooperation from the two wheelchair users from sounds of it

 

[Johncleesefan]

There is nothing on a Scotrail 156 which prohibits the second wheelchair from being carried. I'm on one now and there's a stick on the narrower side saying "this space is reserved for wheelchair users" it may mean for the first wheelchairs movement but does not specifically say that. It just needed more cooperation from the two wheelchair users from sounds of it

Generally speaking, a wheelchair space is for one wheelchair as the chair faces backwards and the back of the chair needs to be next to a support in case of heavy braking, so he won't go flying if his chair brakes aren't the best. I don't know 156s but on sprinters I do know its one chair only.

Sounds like a communication brakedown certainly tho and the OPs statement sounds a little hazy and hard to follow