What "tickets" must I carry?

[BillyBoy]

Back to the original question but on a different theme to accompanying reservations:

Must you always carry the return portion of the outward ticket you are using?

I can think of a few, what I think are, valid reasons why I might not have the return part with me.

Reason I ask is I was using the outward part of a SOR dated the day before and the guard asked to see the return ticket. I did have it with me so there was no problem but I've since wondered if it is an actual requirement to be able to present it if asked?

 

[John @ home]

Must you always carry the return portion of the outward ticket you are using?

Yes. You need to do this to be able to demonstrate that you are complying with Condition 17 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

17. Using a return ticket

A return ticket (including a two-part return ticket) is only valid for the outward journey shown on that ticket if the ticket is completely unused. You may not use the outward part of a return ticket after you have used the return part.

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/nrcc/NRCOC.pdf

 

[island]

And this is generally done to limit the potential to use an anytime return as a five-day season ticket in the out direction.

 

[BillyBoy]

I see, thanks both. That couldn't be any clearer.

 

[34D]

IIRC the FastTicket machines will issue an additional receipt if you press the button on the screen.

Yes.

I _believe_ that the machines print out a credit card receipt automatically, but that if the 'receipt' button is printed then a 'vat receipt' will be printed (I believe on transactions where you are buying there and then this is an option, but when tickets were bought online the email serves as the formal tax document.

I believe that just about everything that a railway TVM can issue is zero rated (the only thing that springs to mind that is standard rated is parking).

 

[John @ home]

I believe that just about everything that a railway TVM can issue is zero rated (the only thing that springs to mind that is standard rated is parking).

Also East Coast £5-for-£4 buffet vouchers.

 

[island]

I think vouchers are outside the scope of VAT. And some of the things in the buffet are zero-rated so surely they can't know what VAT to account for until you spend the voucher.

 

[maniacmartin]

I think vouchers are outside the scope of VAT. And some of the things in the buffet are zero-rated so surely they can't know what VAT to account for until you spend the voucher.

If that is the case, then it looks like a big VAT loophole...

 

[bb21]

If that is the case, then it looks like a big VAT loophole...

Why? VAT is applied at the point of sale anyway.

 

[island]

The VAT treatment of a voucher for, say, Sainsbury's is that there is no VAT charged when the voucher is purchased (as it is impossible to know at that point in time what VAT rate will apply to what is eventually purchased with the card). When the voucher is redeemed, the retailer accounts for VAT as though it had received cash, so if someone spent the voucher on bananas there would be no VAT, and if they spent it on bars of chocolate it would be 20%.

 

[maxiboy]

And they do. Several TOCs issue print at home or mobile tickets. However, some members of the forum are very critical of them.

And rightly so.

I have not tried out print at home tickets in Britain yet, but I have in Germany (as Deutsche Bahn only offers ToD for tickets booked by phone, which is not an option). However the system shifts a burden on passengers, as I have witnessed several train guards issuing UFNs in "my mum bought the tickets for me with her credit card, now it has her name on it" and "I have lost my ID card yesterday" cases.

It's just a lot less foolproof than collecting tickets from the station even though everything's on one page… :roll:

 

[DaveNewcastle]

island is correct, though we could just as easily say that the conversion of cash into Vouchers isn't a transaction. It's when the vouchers are used in lieu of money that there is a VAT transaction.

But this is not to say that there are not gaping holes in the UK tax legislation and practice. None of which we will be discussing on here, will we?

 

[maddeningcrowds]

There is a difference between a receipt and a credit card slip.

A receipt lists the products/services purchased, VAT number and tax paid. It is evidence of the products/services you bought, and can be used for expenses claims or tax returns.

The credit card slip identifies the basics of the payment card used and is evidence for the cardholder of what is being charged to their card by what company. You can't use this to claim expenses or use in your tax return because it does not specify what you purchased.

Sometimes these two are combined. E.g. Sainsburys print the receipt on one side and the credit card slip on the other.

The collection receipt issued by the TVM when collecting tickets is neither of these. I cannot really see a purpose for it. The receipt and credit card slip are combined in the confirmation email.

 

[Muzer]

TVM receipts for tickets purchased on-the-spot are useless, in SWT-land at least, not just collection ones. They don't tell you where the ticket goes to or what type it is - just the purchase location and the price.