What "tickets" must I carry?

[trainophile]

Arising from a current thread on the D&P section of this forum, someone did not have available certain parts of his ticket purchase that he assumed were receipts. Discussion ensues as to whether the parts in question were actually travel tickets or possibly Advance seat reservations.

However it has got me wondering whether there is any obligation to retain for inspection the final TVM-issued receipt that simply details the card purchase made?

As a second part to this query, if there is more than one reserved leg on a journey, is it obligatory to retain a seat reservation coupon once that part is completed?

 

[Flamingo]

As a rule, and to avoid confusion, I always tell people bring everything, and don't throw anything away until they get back home.

Keep it simples!

 

[Yew]

As a rule, and to avoid confusion, I always tell people bring everything, and don't throw anything away until they get back home.

Keep it simples!

Got to agree there, keep everything. You might think its a card receipt at a glance, but it could be a compulsory reservation. Now that you do not want to throw away (Seriously, they need to just print it all on one ticket, the amount of hassle it would save)

You need to keep a Compulsory reservation from an advance ticket until your journey is finished. Not how it says 'Not valid without reservations' on the top. If you think of a situation where both legs are reserve able, how does the guard know the reservation is not for their leg?

 

[trainophile]

The guard would know because the reservation coupon would show the departure time and journey start/end stations for the train you were on.

I've never kept the payment receipt thingy, thought it was just for my own records, or if someone needs to claim expenses.

It just makes such a lot of stuff to keep track of, but if you say so... .

(I believe I have already discarded certain "payment receipt thingies" for Advance journeys I have yet to make. Hope this doesn't cause a problem - it hasn't in the last four years since I commenced regular rail travel).

 

[island]

You do not need the collection receipt or credit card receipt.

 

[bb21]

Indeed, and actually information contained on the collection receipt can be misleading anyway, as some count the collection receipt in the number of coupons issued, whereas others don't.

 

[34D]

The guard would know because the reservation coupon would show the departure time and journey start/end stations for the train you were on.

I've never kept the payment receipt thingy, thought it was just for my own records, or if someone needs to claim expenses.

It just makes such a lot of stuff to keep track of, but if you say so... .

(I believe I have already discarded certain "payment receipt thingies" for Advance journeys I have yet to make. Hope this doesn't cause a problem - it hasn't in the last four years since I commenced regular rail travel).

We've had a few threads where people may have had the task of proving that they didn't show intent to travel without a ticket made easier by having possession of a receipt or similar.

Not sure what bb21 thinks, but I would suggest that the position of the forum ought to be that all coupons (inc collection and/or credit card receipt) must be retained until all journeys (inc return portions) have been completed and railway property fully exited.

 

[trainophile]

I have no objection in principle to keeping everything that the TVM spits out, but it will probably slow down the guard's ticket checking progress, as everyone shuffles their pack to find the appropriate things!

 

[yorkie]

As a second part to this query, if there is more than one reserved leg on a journey, is it obligatory to retain a seat reservation coupon once that part is completed?

Technically yes. But the chances of being asked to produce it are virtually nil, when travelling on a un-reserved train. I've never known it happen!

 

[island]

I recently changed an advance ticket at a station, so I have the original ticket and its reservation (dated for last Monday), a supplement ticket for the change of journey fee, and a reservation for the new train. Which of these four tickets do I use?

 

[sheff1]

Technically yes. But the chances of being asked to produce it are virtually nil, when travelling on a un-reserved train. I've never known it happen!

I was asked once on a Northern train from Doncaster to Sheffield, having 'connected' from Edinburgh, although what he actually asked for was 'the chit which shows which train you are booked on'. The train from Edinburgh was late and as there was an hour between the (missed) penultimate and the last train from Doncaster I was not in the best of moods to start with. When he proclaimed that my reservation meant I should not be on his train but the previous one and hence was not valid my response was probably not as polite as it could have been - it did though result in him disappearing back into his cab never to be seen again !

 

[bb21]

Not sure what bb21 thinks, but I would suggest that the position of the forum ought to be that all coupons (inc collection and/or credit card receipt) must be retained until all journeys (inc return portions) have been completed and railway property fully exited.

Retain all coupons. I was only pointing out that certain information is confusing however I am not suggesting that one should throw anything away until the journey is finished. This is the only foolproof way to ensure that one has all the necessary coupons when travelling.

I recently changed an advance ticket at a station, so I have the original ticket and its reservation (dated for last Monday), a supplement ticket for the change of journey fee, and a reservation for the new train. Which of these four tickets do I use?

I would imagine the original ticket, the supplement and the new reservation. I don't think the old reservation is required however it is good practice to keep it, as it is easy to discard the new reservation by mistake otherwise.

 

[Deerfold]

I would imagine the original ticket, the supplement and the new reservation. I don't think the old reservation is required however it is good practice to keep it, as it is easy to discard the new reservation by mistake otherwise.

As the original ticket will say on it "only valid with..." and the reference of the original reservation I'd say definitely keep it - and I have shown all four in this situation.

 

[barrykas]

There is a rumour that a forthcoming revision of the Atos/Shere FAST software will suppress receipt printing unless it's explicitly requested, ostensibly for PCI DSS compliance reasons. So that'll be one less bit of card to carry...

 

[maniacmartin]

I thought VISA/Mastercard/whatever-banking rules state that you must always be issued with a receipt? Or is it only if you specifically request it? Perhaps island could comment on this.

 

[sheff1]

I thought VISA/Mastercard/whatever-banking rules state that you must always be issued with a receipt? Or is it only if you specifically request it? Perhaps island could comment on this.

I don't know if there are UK-specific rules, but using my VISA in small shops or restaurants in Sweden often results in no receipt being issued.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

At work (non rail industry) some departments just tell you verbally over the phone the receipt number whereas mine sends it out via the post as a A4 sheet

 

[island]

I thought VISA/Mastercard/whatever-banking rules state that you must always be issued with a receipt? Or is it only if you specifically request it? Perhaps island could comment on this.

My memory is that when contactless payments were rolling out the industry glossies advertised that there was no need to issue a receipt for one unless the customer requests it. This would tend to suggest that for chip & PIN, one is supposed to issue a receipt all the time.

My merchant agreement, on the other hand, allows me to issue emailed receipts (including for face to face transactions) but I have to issue a paper one if the customer asks. So it could possibly be something they are transitioning away from.

 

[thelongestroad]

I envy the day when all reservations are printed together (preferably on the ticket too) so that not one customer can leave his or her reservations in the ticket vending machine before walking away.

I cannot emphasise how much aggravation, hassle and upset that would resolve.

 

[island]

Or, perhaps customers could take responsibility for finding out what they must carry and do when travelling by rail? You don't find many people not wearing their seatbelts when they drive or (in France) not having a hi-vis and a breathalyser in the car. That's because people take the time to find out what they are supposed to be doing. Why is the railway different?

 

[thelongestroad]

I agree wholeheartedly.

But that doesn't stop the ticket left in machine incidents happening numerous times a day all year round... Always has occurred and always will!

I'm not calling for divine intervention or anything. Just a preventative way of making people's lives (including customers, my own and my colleagues) easier when it comes to having so many coupons/ tickets.

 

[jon0844]

Or, perhaps customers could take responsibility for finding out what they must carry and do when travelling by rail? You don't find many people not wearing their seatbelts when they drive or (in France) not having a hi-vis and a breathalyser in the car. That's because people take the time to find out what they are supposed to be doing. Why is the railway different?

To be fair, it can be confusing for even the most hardened traveller with loads of tickets/coupons. It's not that you don't know what you need in many cases, but finding things and keeping them in the correct order (which I find I often mix up by pulling them out of my ticket wallet and then putting them back).

It would certainly be easier to print a reservation on the back of a ticket or in some other position - doing away with the need for two. This probably isn't a thread to start talking about how this might be done, or how smart ticketing will possibly solve the problem one day.

As for travelling abroad. I guess when we go to France, it's made quite clear what the laws are but I bet some people do fall foul if stopped by the police. And when I travel through Europe, I'm in a similar situation of having to carry loads of bits of paper for the tunnel, hotels along the way etc.

I am sure I end up carrying loads more paper than I need to as often it's just a reservation number needed and that's it. So, I could use Word to put them all on one document - but then I'd worry about making a mistake or being asked for the original receipt etc!

The best advice is therefore what has already been said; just take the lot!! Far easier to have someone say to you 'it's okay, I don't need to see that' than the opposite.

 

[snail]

I thought VISA/Mastercard/whatever-banking rules state that you must always be issued with a receipt? Or is it only if you specifically request it? Perhaps island could comment on this.

IIRC the FastTicket machines will issue an additional receipt if you press the button on the screen.

 

[Flamingo]

I was just thinking about this yesterday refueling the car at Sainsburys, "pay at pump" always asks do you want a receipt, it does not automatically give one.

 

[Deerfold]

Or, perhaps customers could take responsibility for finding out what they must carry and do when travelling by rail? You don't find many people not wearing their seatbelts when they drive or (in France) not having a hi-vis and a breathalyser in the car.

I see plenty of people driving without seatbelts. Or cycling on the pavement/through red lights.

It's not a rail-specific thing. Many people don't feel the rules apply to them.

(I realise there are also those who have accidently left things behind in the machine - I know I'm always very careful to check from one wall to the oher of the hopper and some tickets fall very awkwardly).

 

[island]

It would certainly be easier to print a reservation on the back of a ticket or in some other position - doing away with the need for two.

I don't think a solution involving replacing every TVM and ticket office machine on the network (to allow for double-sided printing) could be described as "easier"

However, as previously mentioned, Irish Rail prints the equivalent of a return advance ticket on one coupon (rather than four here). So it's not impossible.

 

[Ediswan]

(I realise there are also those who have accidently left things behind in the machine - I know I'm always very careful to check from one wall to the oher of the hopper and some tickets fall very awkwardly).

I have only used the "order online, collect from machine" system once. Three people from Euston to the NEC. Outbound was open, with seat reservations for the planned service. Return was advance, with compulsory reservations. I had no idea how many coupons to expect. I was well aware of the risk of leaving some behind. The machine might have said how many were being printed, but not in a memorable way. So I needed to check there and then.

There was not enough light at the machine to read the fine print. So I took all eleven coupons into the travel office to find decent light and a flat surface to sort them out on.

What I actually had was:
* Three individual outbound tickets, with three seat reservations on one coupon (4)
* Three individual return tickets, with three individual seat reservations (6)
* One receipt (1)

Somebody in a hurry is likely to grab all the coupons they can see and maybe check later. Not hard to miss one. The older system of everything on one piece of paper was a lot simpler for the passenger.

 

[jon0844]

I am not suggesting changing every printer - but merely stating that it would be easier (for the public)!

 

[Panda]

Or ticketless travel. Wouldn't that be great.

That's how it's done on the airport train in Stockholm - my ticket is simply linked to my credit card and when they came to check my ticket, I just handed over my card, which they swiped and all was well.

Also had the pleasure of paperless flying when I did my last long-haul flight. All I had was a barcode on my smartphone and it was accepted everywhere without the annoyance of having to have ticket stubs.

And I've also had a ticket to an event which was also held on my smartphone - it was also a barcode which was scanned at the door of the event and after scanning my phone, I got access to the event.

If airlines and event ticketing companies can do it, the railways can too.

 

[island]

And they do. Several TOCs issue print at home or mobile tickets. However, some members of the forum are very critical of them.