What, precisely, is amusing or noteworthy about this? (Geneva Convention)

[All Line Rover]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40056693

An 11-year-old girl's assertion that her school was guilty of a war crime has gone viral.

...

She criticised the policy of punishing a whole class for one person's bad behaviour - by citing the Geneva Conventions.

...

Asked what her teacher could do better, Ava Bell wrote: "Not use collective punishment as it is not fair on the many people who did nothing and under the 1949 Genva [sic] Conventions it is a war crime."

...

Various fellow parents joked that young Miss Bell was precocious...

Other media outlets have variously described this behaviour as 'amusing' and 'hilarious'.

How so? The trivialisation of this subject matter is deeply insulting to, amongst others, victims of war crime and lawyers involved in framing this body of law.

The girl in question, at 11, can't even spell Geneva, which sounds nothing like Genva.

Now as for true legal comedy:

'Lawyer': "This is a blatant violation of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia, and when it comes to violations, they don't come any bigger."

Judge: "What section of the Constitution has been breached?"

'Lawyer': "Section? What... section? There is no one section. It's just the vibe... of the thing."

...

Litigant: "It's called a home, ye' d***head! And it's a bloody fine one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6f1EMn1lo&feature=youtu.be&t=1m07s​

 

[yorkie]

Other media outlets have variously described this behaviour as 'amusing' and 'hilarious'.

How so?

It has to be read in the context of an 11 year old writing it, rather than an adult.

The trivialisation of this subject matter is deeply insulting to, amongst others, victims of war crime and lawyers involved in framing this body of law.

I don't think it's fair to say these words of an 11 year old are trivialising victims of war crime, and many people seemed to approve of the message.

The girl in question, at 11, can't even spell Geneva, which sounds nothing like Genva.

Actually just one letter missing is not bad spelling for an 11 year old, e.g. today I saw someone of a year older type "nucula" instead of nuclear, "mishans" instead of missions, "agentst" instead of against.

Not many people agree with these sorts of punishments, which are deeply unpopular amongst students. A lot of people will be able to relate to her frustration.

Not many 11 year olds would come up with something like this, and I very much doubt she meant it to be taken seriously or meant to be trivialising anything.

 

[backontrack]

She's right about group punishments though. I could actually write my thesis on how stupid they are.

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps next time a thread is locked for veering wildly off topic, we can claim breach of the Geneva convention as it stops all the rest of us having fun.

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps next time a thread is locked for veering wildly off topic, we can claim breach of the Geneva convention as it stops all the rest of us having fun.

Sadly RailUK are not a signatory to the Geneva convention so you'll find that their rules have no power here!

 

[Cowley]

Perhaps next time a thread is locked for veering wildly off topic, we can claim breach of the Geneva convention as it stops all the rest of us having fun.

Yes and then Yorkie could group punish us all .
He can wait all day if he has to, it's our own time that we're wasting.

 

[Cowley]

Sadly RailUK are not a signatory to the Geneva convention so you'll find that their rules have no power here!

He did it not me and they make faces behind your back.

 

[DaleCooper]

Why did I waste my time reading the OP? Was it some kind of cruel and unusual punishment?

Incidentally, the girl's spelling is considerably better than that of some contributors to this forum.

 

[EM2]

Some chill pills required, I reckon

 

[HSTEd]

Sadly RailUK are not a signatory to the Geneva convention so you'll find that their rules have no power here!

Technically Nuremberg decided that the convention applies to everyone in all situations however. :P
Even though it originally only applied in conflicts between signatories.

 

[DaleCooper]

She's right about group punishments though. I could actually write my thesis on how stupid they are.

No doubt someone else could write an equally erudite thesis on how appropriate and effective they are.

 

[Darandio]

She's right about group punishments though. I could actually write my thesis on how stupid they are.

Bring back the cane only for the perpetrators, no more group punishments.

In fact, i'm wondering if the cane is actually preferable to having to read the opening post of this thread.

 

[ainsworth74]

Technically Nuremberg decided that the convention applies to everyone in all situations however. :P
Even though it originally only applied in conflicts between signatories.

There's always one trying to show off their knowledge of international law

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm struggling to tell if the opening post was in itself a joke.

 

[DaleCooper]

In fact, i'm wondering if the cane is actually preferable to having to read the opening post of this thread.

It is preferable and I speak from experience.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, collective punishment was extremely popular amongst the teaching staff in my 1980's primary school.

Does the convention have a view on making people eat everything on their plate until they vomit on the table I wonder

 

[backontrack]

Incidentally, the girl's spelling is considerably better than that of some contributors to this forum.

Wot ar yuou trieing to say, Dael?

 

[backontrack]

No doubt someone else could write an equally erudite thesis on how appropriate and effective they are.

It would be wrong, of course.

Group punishments rarely ever work. What are they designed to do? If someone misbehaves in a Games lesson, everyone has to do running. Everyone has to finish in a certain limit. If someone tries their absolute best and is a second late, we all have to do it again. It just turns the arrogant, annoying sporty ones against the person who's late and they turn on them. It turns students against students. Peer pressure. It's wrong. And it also turns the students against the teacher and make them resent them more.

(I feel I should add that I'm not that person who ends up behind.
I may have a physique a bit like a stick, but I can run well, and can certainly bowl a ball straight to boot. )

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, collective punishment was extremely popular amongst the teaching staff in my 1980's primary school.

Does the convention have a view on making people eat everything on their plate until they vomit on the table I wonder

Collective punishment is also very useful in the military. I was on the receiving end a few times as a cadet. It's also very effective, because invariably there is always someone who knows who it was that got the whole squadron into trouble, and "unofficial discipline" usually followed.

 

[HSTEd]

Collective punishment is also very useful in the military. I was on the receiving end a few times as a cadet. It's also very effective, because invariably there is always someone who knows who it was that got the whole squadron into trouble, and "unofficial discipline" usually followed.

It's effective until 'unofficial discipline' escalates to the point someone gets killed, or the person who was disciplined goes full blown Full Metal Jacket.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's effective until 'unofficial discipline' escalates to the point someone gets killed, or the person who was disciplined goes full blown Full Metal Jacket.

Thanks Captain Obvious (I think he was an army captain).

 

[backontrack]

Collective punishment is also very useful in the military. I was on the receiving end a few times as a cadet. It's also very effective, because invariably there is always someone who knows who it was that got the whole squadron into trouble, and "unofficial discipline" usually followed.

Schoolkids aren't cadets.

 

[HSTEd]

Schoolkids aren't cadets.

Technically schoolkids can be cadets.

I was one at school for example.

 

[DaleCooper]

Schoolkids aren't cadets.

I hope your thesis will employ arguments more rigorous than that.

 

[yorksrob]

It's effective until 'unofficial discipline' escalates to the point someone gets killed, or the person who was disciplined goes full blown Full Metal Jacket.

Now that is a good film. Apparently the drill sergeant was a real drill sergeant originally employed to advise. The battle scenes were also filmed near Croydon apparently!

 

[DaleCooper]

On a philosopical note:

Human existence is a form of collective punishment - on good days.

The battle scenes were also filmed near Croydon apparently!

That was just a typical Saturday night in Croydon.

 

[AlterEgo]

Schoolkids aren't cadets.

They're the same age. Collective punishment is effective; I have been on the receiving end, and dished it out. Whether it is ethically proper or not is another thing. I only said it was effective.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes, Mr Reynolds, I still remember the hour my class had to stay behind after school back in 1964 because of some alleged lack of respect for you, a young schoolmaster new to teaching and keen to impose some imagined authority. I loathed you then, and even more so when you subjected two of my classmates to your 'authority' a couple of years later on Brecon Beacons, which could so easily have led to their deaths, but at least you were given a dressing-down in front of us pupils by a more senior master, one who didn't need to exhibit a macho nature to earn our respect.

 

[backontrack]

Technically schoolkids can be cadets.

I was one at school for example.

I hope your thesis will employ arguments more rigorous than that.

The point stands that the vast majority of schoolkids aren't going to be cadets.

Quite simply, we shouldn't have this kind of 'unofficial discipline' in schools. That's the teacher's job, and other students shouldn't be taking these measures. For this reason, it's not ethically sound. If you're punishing a majority of kids who didn't do anything wrong, that's not fair. And don't give me that 'well life is unfair' rubbish, because the truth is that things can be fairer. We should argue for things to improve, because, well, they can.

And we shouldn't be running our schools like we do the military. It's a different kettle of fish. Soldiers have to be prepared to go into warzones. Pupils sit exams. Whatever a student intends on doing later on in life, it's not the school's responsibility to get them into the Royal Marines. It's the school's responsibility to get them through their GCSEs.

I have quite a few gripes with our exam system, though it'd be off-topic to voice them here.

They're the same age. Collective punishment is effective; I have been on the receiving end, and dished it out. Whether it is ethically proper or not is another thing. I only said it was effective.

I also disagree that it's effective. It's not. From my experiences, it doesn't actually dissuade people from doing things because people are still willing to do them. I've suffered enough group punishments to realise that. If group punishments were truly effective, then you wouldn't need many of them. Those implementing them want those being punished to have a bad time so that the perpetrator(s) stop doing whatever they're doing out of fear of it happening again. But often, the perpetrator(s) just don't care. They'd do it again.

It's definitely not ethically sound, and while I accept it is a futile endeavour to try to change the minds of people who are much older and grew up in an environment that is different in many respects, I've made my opinions clear that it's not actually effective, either. In my experiences, it's the preserve of lazy Games teachers who get hacked off when a couple of the foreign students start speaking in Chinese and can't be bothered to punish the right people. And then they'd still speak Chinese next lesson, too. If you disagree then fine, disagree all the hell you want. But I'm not willing to defend group punishments.

And yes, I know that's not a thesis. It was a joke, DaleCooper.

Yes, Mr Reynolds, I still remember the hour my class had to stay behind after school back in 1964 because of some alleged lack of respect for you, a young schoolmaster new to teaching and keen to impose some imagined authority. I loathed you then, and even more so when you subjected two of my classmates to your 'authority' a couple of years later on Brecon Beacons, which could so easily have led to their deaths, but at least you were given a dressing-down in front of us pupils by a more senior master, one who didn't need to exhibit a macho nature to earn our respect.

What a terrible teacher. And yes, I am thinking of a worse word than 'terrible'.

 

[WessexEclectic]

Now as for true legal comedy:

'Lawyer': "This is a blatant violation of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia, and when it comes to violations, they don't come any bigger."

Judge: "What section of the Constitution has been breached?"

'Lawyer': "Section? What... section? There is no one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6f1EMn1lo&feature=youtu.be&t=1m07s​

The girl in question, at 11, can't even spell Geneva, which sounds nothing like Genva.

Tell 'er she's dreamin'!..