What is an "Open Return"?

[Krokodil]

There's a thread in Disputes at the moment where the OP has been sold a combination of day returns labelled by TrainPal as an "Open Return". Trainline similarly lists day return tickets when you select "Open Return" and this causes a lot of grief in my experience. By contrast, TfW's app will only list period returns if the "Open Return" option is ticked. Clearly the industry has differing views on what the term means, so I wanted to canvas opinion on what forum members took "Open Return" to mean.

 

[saismee]

I see people call Day Return tickets "Open Return" all the time and so I always use the term "Period Return" which is what the TVMs call it (at least on GA). I see it as any period return ticket as the outbound is fixed and the return isn't, hence "open".

 

[trainJam]

South Western Railway (SWR) sell a ticket with the name Open Return: Anytime Open Return (OR2) which lacks the full 5 day outward validity.

Example: Southampton Central to Weymouth £71.20

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Selecting 'Open Return' on the forum's site (and deselecting split tickets) gives an option to return same day and an option to return within a month. (Note: 30th September selected)

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I usually take open to mean period, and I try to ignore the term open (unless I have a very specific need to buy a SWR open return, which is unlikely).

 

[trainswitheddy]

Huh? I thought open return meant set outbound but flexible return...What?

 

[Hadders]

There is no ticket called Open Return.

Historically open return referred to the Standard Open Return (code SOR) which had a validity of a month on the return portion. The SOR is what today we know as the Anytime Return.

In recent years many retailers refer to open return as any ticket offering flexibility on the return portion, even if the ticket is only valid for a day.

The term really needs binning off.

 

[OscarH]

While historically it did have that link to one month validity, nowadays a good proportion of passengers are used to it meaning selected-out-flexible-in and want to be able to use these features to buy day tickets - the meaning has very much changed over time.

The important thing is that the websites make the validity very very clear when you're selecting tickets

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've always thought of an open return as how the retailers use it.
Just any return ticket not tied to any specific train on the way back.

 

[jfollows]

I've always thought of an open return as how the retailers use it.
Just any return ticket not tied to any specific train on the way back.

Or on the way out, such as breaking your journey.

 

[sheff1]

There is no ticket called Open Return.

Historically open return referred to the Standard Open Return (code SOR) which had a validity of a month on the return portion. The SOR is what today we know as the Anytime Return.

In recent years many retailers refer to open return as any ticket offering flexibility on the return portion, even if the ticket is only valid for a day.

The term really needs binning off.

Agree with this. Retailers need to make clear what exactly they are offering. 'Open Return' can mean an Anytime Day, Off Peak Day, Off Peak or Anytime (maybe more) depending on who is using the term.

The EMR ticket machines at Sheffield give the choice of Day or Period returns. Whilst 'Period' is no longer an official name for a ticket type it at least indicates it is something different to a Day Return and being sold a day ticket when they are returning later seems to be the main issue in the Disputes threads.

 

[Sleepy]

Trainline are a pain in the arse for this on day returns - surprised ASA haven't been involved with this one - they seem to regularly slap them down

 

[Haywain]

Trainline are a pain in the arse for this on day returns - surprised ASA haven't been involved with this one - they seem to regularly slap them down

What are they advertising that the ASA would get involved with?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Trainline are a pain in the arse for this on day returns - surprised ASA haven't been involved with this one - they seem to regularly slap them down

In my mind an open return is exactly as they treat it, and Trainline let make chose the ticket (trainsplit just gives you the cheapest one), a customer can hardly say they were given the wrong ticket when they tapped on the one saying "Off-Peak Day Return"

 

[AlterEgo]

Trainline are a pain in the arse for this on day returns - surprised ASA haven't been involved with this one - they seem to regularly slap them down

Most if not all retailers use this definition.

 

[OscarH]

Trainline are a pain in the arse for this on day returns - surprised ASA haven't been involved with this one - they seem to regularly slap them down

I'm afraid this is what the majority expect/want of "Open return" features.

That isn't to say it doesn't trip people up, there is a not-insignificant number of people with the 1 month understanding still even if they are a minority, and therefore retailers do have a duty to make it very clear whether it's a month, a day, or even 1 week out, 3 weeks return, but you must wait until a Wednesday has passed before you can come home. But provided the validity is made clear there's nothing fundamentally wrong with day returns being included, and the industry is not going to change to start hiding them.

 

[Krokodil]

I'm afraid this is what the majority expect/want of "Open return" features.

Is it? On what basis do you make that claim?

Only five posters of the 80 who have voted so far have selected the option that matches what Trainline use in their app. A clear majority have voted that their definition of "Open Return" is a period return. While this forum is not necessarily representative of the wider public, I've no reason to believe (following many years of working with passengers) that the public would have voted any differently.

 

[saismee]

Is it? On what basis do you make that claim?

Only five posters of the 80 who have voted so far have selected the option that matches what Trainline use in their app. A clear majority have voted that their definition of "Open Return" is a period return. While this forum is not necessarily representative of the wider public, I've no reason to believe (following many years of working with passengers) that the public would have voted any differently.

If "Open Return" just means any flexible return then the term is useless because every (common) return ticket is flexible anyway. Maybe the term and option should be scrapped entirely and replaced with "Flexible Return" which leads to separate day/period return options.

I think the term causes more confusion than it's worth.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The term "open return" means whatever the person using the term wants it to mean, essentially. Which helps nobody.

 

[Haywain]

Maybe the term and option should be scrapped entirely

How do you scrap a term that's in common usage by Joe Public?

 

[fandroid]

How do you scrap a term that's in common usage by Joe Public?

You just don't offer it as an option on your website! Then Joe P will have to pay a bit more attention to what they are buying. It's quite easy to use the terms "day" and "period" when offering return tickets.

 

[OscarH]

You just don't offer it as an option on your website! Then Joe P will have to pay a bit more attention to what they are buying. It's quite easy to use the terms "day" and "period" when offering return tickets.

What if you don't want to select an inbound journey?

 

[sheff1]

No need to select any journey with some retailers, but most people know whether they are coming back the same day or later and if not sure would most likely select the ‘period’ option.

 

[jfollows]

Most of the time I buy online I am forced to specify trains and times when I already know the ticket I want. My circumvention is to use a ticket office and ask a real person for the ticket. My last purchases were for a cheap day return, an open single and another cheap day return. I bought two of them using this forum’s site by specifying a train which I didn’t use but knew that my ticket was valid on the train I did use.
The system puts off people who feel compelled to buy advance tickets for specific trains. Not the fault of this forum’s site, just a general problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2025 ==

And, yes, I’m using the former names for the tickets, which still match their abbreviations on ticketing systems.

 

[styles]

What if you don't want to select an inbound journey?

When buying returns journey planners will default to making you select an inbound itinerary anyway, even if it's flexible. It is usually possible to 'trick' them into selling a return ticket without selecting an inbound itinerary by starting with a one-way ticket, then clicking some option like 'alternative tickets' or 'change ticket selection' to then select a return fare, but the number of people doing this will be vanishingly small. Even those clued up enough to do this will know that the itinerary isn't mandatory so making a best guess doesn't do any harm to the customer.

 

[OscarH]

When buying returns journey planners will default to making you select an inbound itinerary anyway, even if it's flexible. It is usually possible to 'trick' them into selling a return ticket without selecting an inbound itinerary by starting with a one-way ticket, then clicking some option like 'alternative tickets' or 'change ticket selection' to then select a return fare, but the number of people doing this will be vanishingly small. Even those clued up enough to do this will know that the itinerary isn't mandatory so making a best guess doesn't do any harm to the customer.

Indeed, and compared to simply selecting "open return" before doing their search the more customer-focused option is obvious

 

[yorkie]

There's a thread in Disputes at the moment where the OP has been sold a combination of day returns labelled by TrainPal as an "Open Return". Trainline similarly lists day return tickets when you select "Open Return" and this causes a lot of grief in my experience. By contrast, TfW's app will only list period returns if the "Open Return" option is ticked. Clearly the industry has differing views on what the term means, so I wanted to canvas opinion on what forum members took "Open Return" to mean.

I refer you to my post in the previous thread debating the meaning of the term:

Use/meaning of the term "Open return"

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trainline-ai-assistant-incorrect-advice.287560/ I've long defended Trainline from accusations from staff that it provides information different from other retailers - to now it couldn't and doesn't as it uses basically the same...

www.railforums.co.uk

There are three different interpretations for the term "open return" these days.

Firstly, the former Standard/First Open Return (SOR/FOR) ticket type, as used by British Rail and the early years of privatisation, has been called an "Anytime Return" since 2008, retaining the SOR/FOR codes to this day. However, these days, relatively few people us the term Open Return as exclusively referring to an SOR/FOR product.

Secondly, a significant proportion number of people refer to the term "Open return" colloquially to refer to any product (including one with time restrictions) that is valid for a calendar month on the return portion, i.e. the return portion has the same duration as the traditional Open Return product.

And finally, there is a third definition of the term "open return" which is that referred to by many websites, including Trainline from as far back as around 1999, which can be a time restricted ticket and doesn't even have to be valid for more than a day, but is not an "Advance"; colloquially this is more commonly known as a "walk-up" ticket, or occasionally as a "flexible" or "semi-flexible" ticket, and can be almost any type of ticket that isn't restricted to one specific service/itinerary.

Therefore, it might be a good idea to avoid using the term "open return", as the meaning can vary by context, as well as being subject to interpretation, as there is no commonly accepted definition, and it's no longer the name of a product.

 

[sheff1]

Indeed, and compared to simply selecting "open return" before doing their search the more customer-focused option is obvious

To me the most customer focused retailers are those few who do not insist on selection of services outward or return before selling a flexible ticket, instead offering service selection as an option. They have no need to make up a ticket type name.

 

[Krokodil]

I refer you to my post in the previous thread debating the meaning of the term:

Use/meaning of the term "Open return"

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trainline-ai-assistant-incorrect-advice.287560/ I've long defended Trainline from accusations from staff that it provides information different from other retailers - to now it couldn't and doesn't as it uses basically the same...

www.railforums.co.uk

Yes, I saw that and wanted to get an idea of the proportion of people who favoured each definition.

It would appear that the Trainline/TrainPal definition is shared only by a small minority.

 

[saismee]

How do you scrap a term that's in common usage by Joe Public?

More suggesting that retailers drop the term so it falls out of favour. No confusion to be had if an ambiguous term is replaced with a clearer term and interface.

 

[js517]

Yes, I saw that and wanted to get an idea of the proportion of people who favoured each definition.

It would appear that the Trainline/TrainPal definition is shared only by a small minority.

We can't tell whether that is the case or not from the poll here since it is not a representative sample of ticket purchasers.

 

[alxndr]

You just don't offer it as an option on your website! Then Joe P will have to pay a bit more attention to what they are buying. It's quite easy to use the terms "day" and "period" when offering return tickets.

Royal Mail hasn’t used the term “recorded delivery” for 25 years yet people still call it that rather than “signed for”.