What happened to Request stops?

[DelW]

I think the Heart of Wales line timetable would have problems if all stops became compulsory, and it would make very little sense.

As an extreme example, I've been through Sugar Loaf on a train probably forty or fifty times, and stopped there exactly twice - one of which was because I'd requested it.

At Cynghordy, I've probably been on trains that stopped on no more than ten occasions at most. The platform is on a rising gradient (1 in 50 iirc) and the track is tree-lined, meaning adhesion is often poor. Northbound (up-hill) trains can struggle to re-start, and stopping every train there would mean that difficult start would usually be pointless.

Other stations further north like Llanbister Road and Llangynllo have similar levels of usage. Stopping every train would further slow an already long journey time, for the benefit of whom? The few people likely to use these remote stations are unlikely to have any difficulty in signalling to the driver.

Their situation is completely different from examples like Conwy, which I agree was a very strange choice to be a request stop.

 

[High Dyke]

Well, this has proved an interesting discussion so far. Someone mentioned about the cost of stopping trains for these request stops. Perhaps the solution is to close many intermediate stations. Let's now have stations at A and D, but close B and C. Yeah, that's a brilliant way to discourage passengers.

The system adopted in Switzerland is shown on This video. Is it that difficult to provide and maintain such equipment?

In the past I've seen stations that were request stops become compulsory stops. However, then the service was reduced to specific trains, whereas a request stop option applied to all services that passed through there.

 

[Eoch]

That didn’t stop Rogart (a passing loop on the Far North) being timetabled as a request stop.

Rogart loop is also a Intermediate Token Exchange Point.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think the Heart of Wales line timetable would have problems if all stops became compulsory, and it would make very little sense.

As an extreme example, I've been through Sugar Loaf on a train probably forty or fifty times, and stopped there exactly twice - one of which was because I'd requested it.

At Cynghordy, I've probably been on trains that stopped on no more than ten occasions at most. The platform is on a rising gradient (1 in 50 iirc) and the track is tree-lined, meaning adhesion is often poor. Northbound (up-hill) trains can struggle to re-start, and stopping every train there would mean that difficult start would usually be pointless.

Other stations further north like Llanbister Road and Llangynllo have similar levels of usage. Stopping every train would further slow an already long journey time, for the benefit of whom? The few people likely to use these remote stations are unlikely to have any difficulty in signalling to the driver.

Their situation is completely different from examples like Conwy, which I agree was a very strange choice to be a request stop.

Interesting that you should mention the HoWL - as I was thinking of writing that of late, it seems many (most?) trains appear to be stopping as a matter of course at some request stops, particularly Bynea, Llangenech and Pontardulais. Often, according to RTT, they stop for just 15 seconds (I'm not sure how accurate this is) which I would have thought indicates there isn't enough time to open and close doors.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Often, according to RTT, they stop for just 15 seconds (I'm not sure how accurate this is) which I would have thought indicates there isn't enough time to open and close doors.

I think 15 seconds probably would be enough for someone to be let out the local door.
Of course that could mean no stop, I'm not familiar with that area or the usual reporting.

 

[warwickshire]

First North Western had a few on the Manchester Piccadilly to Chester line.
Between 2000 to around the time of the Northern Franchise Change.

Ashley, Mobberly, Plumley, Lostock Grahalam was as well.

Pacers was the best train to see how this worked out,

1. If anyone wanted to get off at the stations, the guard would give the driver one on the bell buzzer, to stop, as the train, approached the station,
Via the guard to driver communication system. train would stop. However at the stations, sometimes someone would board after dropping of someone who wanted that station, sometimes no one would get on.

2. No one wanted to get off, Guard would give two bells to the Driver, on the bell buzzer, ready to Start. Provided No one was at the station, waiting to catch the train, the Driver would give two bells back to the Guard, on the bell buzzer Via the Guard to Driver Communication System.
Train proceeds straight through.

However someone at the station, driver would respond back to the guard with one bell on the Guard to Driver Communication System and train would stop to pick up.

25 years ago this happened, on that line the pacers have gone, along with the request stops, for the time being the Sprinters remain though.

 

[deltic]

By chance just travelled from Gorlitz to Cottbus in eastern Germany a route that has a number of request stops and use of onboard bell to notify the driver to stop. All seem to work very smoothly and helped get the train back on time to meet a tight onward connection.

 

[The exile]

By chance just travelled from Gorlitz to Cottbus in eastern Germany a route that has a number of request stops and use of onboard bell to notify the driver to stop. All seem to work very smoothly and helped get the train back on time to meet a tight onward connection.

I suspect German rural lines wouldn’t have much of an issue coping with an overshoot if someone pressed the stop button slightly too close to the station on a day where there was low adhesion. (Open the doors and retrain to trackside?) Imagine it happening here!

 

[Djgr]

Have to say that given all the problems on the railway, this is not one of them.

 

[thenorthern]

To answer the question, request stops don't save much time as trains have to reduce their speed massively in order to be prepared to stop. I know for example, at Nethertown the linespeed is 50 and at Braystones the linespeed changed from 60 to 50 halfway along the platform. If a train was to suddenly decelerate from 50 to 0 in such a short time I don't need to tell you that it would feel like an emergency stop. On the East Lancs line the linespeed through Hapton and Pleasington is 90, although I am aware that the trains operating on the line have a top speed of 75.

 

[JohnRegular]

Not sure what happens if anyone wants to take a bike there - perhaps they get a free ride to Bradford or Freshford and are expected to cycle back (a long way round in the case of Freshford).

I asked a guard once what would happen if boarding/alighting at Dilton Marsh with a bike; the response was that they would 'make it work'. Which is a nice attitude, but I think I'd just use Westbury (or Bradford in the case of Avoncliff).

 

[Moritzplatz]

By chance just travelled from Gorlitz to Cottbus in eastern Germany a route that has a number of request stops and use of onboard bell to notify the driver to stop. All seem to work very smoothly and helped get the train back on time to meet a tight onward connection.

Yes, if anything there are more Bedarfshaltestellen (request stops) now, especially in the east of Germany, as the trains save energy by not having to start and stop unnecessarily. As you say, this also helps punctuality and reliability of connections. The City-Bahn Chemnitz introduced quite a few request stops on the C11 Chemnitz-Stollberg route in 2023, for example, and having a request stop button (Haltewunschtaste) on the trains works well.

There's even a YouTube channel called 'Pointless Adventures' where Enya and Tom randomly choose a German request stop and then explore the places where they end up.

 

[dk1]

Back in the day all local stations were ‘request’ late at night if we were running late. Buzz buzz on the approach from the guard meant nobody was to get off then after a cursory look and if nobody to get on it was buzz buzz back and another 60-90 seconds clawed back. Unfortunately now that would be seen as a failure to call.

 

[thenorthern]

Something I have always wondered is has there ever been a staffed station which is a request stop since privatisation? When I was younger Danzey was listed as a staffed station in the 2002 (I think) National Rail timetable book but in reality that was a misprint as to my knowledge Danzey has been unstaffed for many decades before 2002.

 

[Falcon1200]

Someone mentioned about the cost of stopping trains for these request stops. Perhaps the solution is to close many intermediate stations. Let's now have stations at A and D, but close B and C.

If you are referring to the point I made in Post #112 (which I'm sure has been made before) I also opined that having request stops might be a way of keeping open stations which could otherwise close due to lack of use!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Back in the day all local stations were ‘request’ late at night if we were running late. Buzz buzz on the approach from the guard meant nobody was to get off then after a cursory look and if nobody to get on it was buzz buzz back and another 60-90 seconds clawed back. Unfortunately now that would be seen as a failure to call.

I had that on the Newquay branch once. I was track bashing the Cornish branches, and it was getting quite late in the day. The connecting train from the Plymouth direction was quite late so we departed from Par a good 15 minutes late. This was a concern for me, as I was palnning to come straight back to Par and catch the last train to London. The driver treated all stops as request stops and a quick turn round at Newqauy got us back to par just as the London train rolled in.

As I recall there was only one stop needed, on the return journey, although the driver did have to pause at that station on the outward journey as there were already people waiting for him to come back.

 

[dk1]

I had that on the Newquay branch once. I was track bashing the Cornish branches, and it was getting quite late in the day. The connecting train from the Plymouth direction was quite late so we departed from Par a good 15 minutes late. This was a concern for me, as I was palnning to come straight back to Par and catch the last train to London. The driver treated all stops as request stops and a quick turn round at Newqauy got us back to par just as the London train rolled in.

As I recall there was only one stop needed, on the return journey, although the driver did have to pause at that station on the outward journey as there were already people waiting for him to come back.

So true mate and as you’ve explained, it worked. We have shot ourselves in the foot over the years. The East Suffolk line was our best for recovering time.

 

[nw1]

Have Northern now made all their request stops mandatory stops? I know they used to have a few such as Entwistle, Braystones, Nethertown, and I think a few between Preston and Colne - they all look to be mandatory stops now.

I remember using Entwistle one early evening in Dec 1997 to return to Manchester, having wandered over the moors from Blackrod. I'm fairly sure it was non-request at that point, and was a crossing-point on the line which during the peak made stops mandatory in any case as there would be 2tph.

I seem to remember my southbound train being late, some issue related to the single-line working IIRC.