What can stop a train driver?

[TheEdge]

Stingers on the line! Call in the army, Chally 2 across the tracks! Have NASA crash a rocket into it!

CALL DOCTOR WHO!

 

[carriageline]

No no everyone knows the best way is too get another train to catch it up, try (and fail 6 times first) to couple up to it, slam on the brakes and stop metres before impending doom.




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[TheEdge]

Is there a trolley?

Only if you enjoy fruit juices made fresh from the mind of Dr Seuss.

 

[Emyr]

Some of us are old enough to remember this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5036530.stm

Low quality journalism.

It is believed the two youths arrived on BMX bikes and entered the yard next to Sheffield airport unnoticed.

Oh no they didn't.

The suspects were captured on CCTV as they entered the yard

Clearly not BMX bikes.

They might as well have used a photo of a Pacer :roll:

 

[muz379]

It all depends on what type of train we're talking about. On a loco hauled or HST, ie something with a brake pipe running the length of the train, any breach of this pipe would result in the brakes being applied. This could be passenger communication apparatus, Guards emergency valve, Emergency brake plunger in rear cab.
On a DMU with EBS/TPWS isolated the pass-comm and other systems will be by-passed, but it would still be possible to stop the train, albeit not as quickly as desired.
If I were in the situation (On say a 2 car 156) I would apply the Parking Brake IC which would apply the parking brake and start to retard the train speed, although it would take a long time to bring the train to a stand. My next step would be to trip the Local Control CB in the rear cab which would shut an engine down along with it's associated compressor. It may help to "toggle" the Low Main Air Governor in the cab, which would fool the system into thinking there was insufficient air in the Main Res and apply the brakes. I think that should work even if the EBS was raised, but have never actually tried it funnily enough!

I thought the engine stop button in the back cab of a 156 would shut down both engines it wouldnt bring about a quick stop like applying brakes would but
depending on the gradient it would eventually stop it .

That sounds even less useful than turning off the electricity!

Nobody said it had to be stopped quickly , decide stealing one that is about to go off to the MDD to get fueled up could actually mean it stops pretty quickly .

If we are talking about stopping quickly and all of the safety equipment has been isolated then obviously that job rests with the signaler diverting it to somewhere it can be derailed .

 

[GatwickDepress]

Stingers on the line! Call in the army, Chally 2 across the tracks! Have NASA crash a rocket into it!

CALL DOCTOR WHO!

It's just the Doctor actually.

/pedant mode

 

[Gathursty]

Some good answers. I'm not a 5 year old nor have I watched Runaway Train or anything similar recently. I should have said something more fitting than grievance but couldn't think of the appropriate word.

I just wanted to understand better the fail-safes that trains have. I didn't want to say if the driver has a medical emergency themselves as I'm sure that there is something called a 'dead-man's handle' that will stop the train instantly with no response but was curious instead about where a driver is not inhibited.

Some funny responses mind!

 

[Kneedown]

I thought the engine stop button in the back cab of a 156 would shut down both engines

It would indeed. Just goes to show how easy it is to overlook the obvious!

 

[455driver]

There was a picture... does this look like anyone we know from 2006? Actually, it looks like a lot of people I know from 2006

Blimey I had a lot of hair back then!

I mean they, yes they had a lot of hair!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Actually there are too many imponderables to consider. From the braking and signalling systems to how the trains and signal boxes are staffed, gradients, curves involved etc etc. There would be a different scenario for pretty much every different rolling stock, signalling operation, driver recruitment processes, location, railway operator and so on and so forth.

 

[455driver]

Whats to stop a lorry driver going on the rampage?
I bet that would make quite a mess!

 

[21C101]

I'm not sure this thread and some of the information provided on it is a very wise thing to do on a publically viewable forum in the current climate, and to be honest I'm a little uncomfortable that it is still here.

All I have to add is that, were I on a train, as soon as I was convinced that something was very wrong (eg not slowing down where it should be slowing down) I would have no hesitation in activating the communication cord and bringing it to an abrupt halt.

 

[carriageline]

Jesus Christ grow a pair!! And if you read this thread, you read the comm cord might not exactly work!


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[muz379]

Whats to stop a lorry driver going on the rampage?
I bet that would make quite a mess!

certainly the few incidents I have seen in the press of lorry drivers falling asleep at the wheel and ploughing into traffic have resulted in fatalities .

I could imagine in a targeted way that would cause some damage

 

[21C101]

Jesus Christ grow a pair!! And if you read this thread, you read the comm cord might not exactly work!


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The problem is that certain very unsavoury people might get ideas from reading this sort of thing. I just think it is unwise.

 

[najaB]

All I have to add is that, were I on a train, as soon as I was convinced that something was very wrong (eg not slowing down where it should be slowing down) I would have no hesitation in activating the communication cord and bringing it to an abrupt halt.

In many (most?) modern trains the communication cord (or passenger alarm) is in no way connected to the brakes. So all you would do is make the driver more angry.

 

[carriageline]

The problem is that certain very unsavoury people might get ideas from reading this sort of thing. I just think it is unwise.

Honestly, you think them reading to isolate the AWS, TPWS and whatever else will make sense? Saying what to do, and how to do it are too very different things. Plus, as history has shown, if people want to cause damage and harm, they will do it


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[3141]

The problem is that certain very unsavoury people might get ideas from reading this sort of thing. I just think it is unwise.

As an unsavoury person I'm now revising my plans so as not to hijack a class 156.

 

[muz379]

any driver that had plans to do this would already know what the relevant safety equipment is and be aware of how to isolate it

any unsavory type that wished to hijack a train could easily find out about that kind of stuff off the internet anyway .

 

[455driver]

In a few months time I might see how far West of Worting jn a 455 can get!

 

[Merseysider]

certainly the few incidents I have seen in the press of lorry drivers falling asleep at the wheel and ploughing into traffic have resulted in fatalities .

I could imagine in a targeted way that would cause some damage

Which is why all airports have bollards or barriers surrounding them to prevent such a targeted attack.

As an unsavoury person I'm now revising my plans so as not to hijack a class 156.

I personally would go with a 185

 

[Yabbadabba]

I'm not sure this thread and some of the information provided on it is a very wise thing to do on a publically viewable forum in the current climate, and to be honest I'm a little uncomfortable that it is still here.

All I have to add is that, were I on a train, as soon as I was convinced that something was very wrong (eg not slowing down where it should be slowing down) I would have no hesitation in activating the communication cord and bringing it to an abrupt halt.

Just my thoughts.

I think with this forum like any other forums that are open with a mix professional from that industry along with enthusiasts and members of the general public where subjects are discussed in the open. That if you were so inclined and spent long enough searching through the various threads as well as looking through other forums and the vast web you will end up with a certain amount of information good or bad depending on your intentions. That is the very nature of the beast of a "free" society that can talk about them in the open. We now live in a world where not only is the rulebook published online so are all the various group standards along with the sectional appendixes and where we now have real live train maps showing the location of every train and not to mention all those published RIAB reports. This might be an uncomfortable thread for some to read and some from within the industry need to be mindful of what they write but we do live in an open society these days.

 

[Wolf]

With 14x s and 15xs there is other things which could be done if a driver really wanted the train to become unstoppable but im not going to mention how to do it.

 

[noddingdonkey]

The fitter who checked the train soon after stabling just signed off the fault on the rear handbrake as NDF (No Defect Found). About 2 or 3 hours later the train went for a roll from Queens Park heading South and made it as far as Oxford Circus before rolling back down to Regents Park. There were supposed to be staff working on the track who cut away early - had they not they would have been killed by the runaway. Doesn't really matter what powers the train but more how the braking systems work. Would imagine today they are far more failsafe but not necessarily so.

Wouldn't the possession have been protected with dets that would have given the p-way gang some warning of the train heading their way?

 

[PermitToTravel]

In a few months time I might see how far West of Worting jn a 455 can get!

Taking a good run-up first, right?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whats to stop a lorry driver going on the rampage?
I bet that would make quite a mess!

A lovely example of how to stop a lorry driver:
[youtube]WE6ySDH93Pg[/youtube]

 

[westcoaster]

I remember the 08 joyriders after that event they had to chain and lock the cab doors.

Didn't that turn out to be a drivers son, with a spoon and screwdriver.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A signalman working in Carlisle Panel had to divert a runaway freight in 1984, where by the diverted runaway demolished a bridge over the River Caldew just passed the old junction of, bog junction and Rome street junction on the old freight avoildings lines in Carlisle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8417743.stm

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/m...evented-major-rail-crash-in-carlisle-1.647845

Similar happened recently with the 92 hauled freight going backwards down iirc shap, the signaller set the route into a siding to derail the train, but the driver woke up in time.

 

[table38]

In a few months time I might see how far West of Worting jn a 455 can get!

Maybe that's really what happened to 455743 to 455749 - someone drove them off the 3rd rail and they disappeared off TOPS for ever

 

[455driver]

Maybe that's really what happened to 455743 to 455749 - someone drove them off the 3rd rail and they disappeared off TOPS for ever

455743 did exist but was renumbered 5750 when Wombledon was awarded ISO5750 accreditation and it has remained so ever since even though ISO5750 has been superseded about 5 times.

 

[carriageline]

Wouldn't the possession have been protected with dets that would have given the p-way gang some warning of the train heading their way?

Not neccasarily, they could of easily been working some distance from the dets, or with loud machinery/trains/on track machines working making it hard to hear. Dets are only there for the driver to realise something is up, not really anything elsw


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[Mutant Lemming]

Wouldn't the possession have been protected with dets that would have given the p-way gang some warning of the train heading their way?

You ain't supposed to use dets in a tube tunnel besides which no one would have expected a train that was stabled five miles away to be heading their way.