What are the rules for 1st class on Thameslink

[bringbackcrouc]

Hi,

What are the rules for first class on Thameslink at the moment. I heard that some parts of some trains have been declassified. Does anyone know for certain.

With best wishes,

JC

 

[gazthomas]

My understanding was that the rear first class section was declassified but hopefully others will be able to confirm the current status

 

[Bungle965]

Sutton Loop services have no first class at all, therefore both front and back are declassified.
Sam

 

[TFN]

Sutton Loop services have no first class at all, therefore both front and back are declassified.
Sam

Sevenoaks/Orpington services also have first class declassified on both ends.

 

[Muzer]

Anything not having first class advertised in the timetable (or open data system, equivalently, viewable for example through realtimetrains) by definition has no first class, so any and all first class seating is automatically declassified. (This used to be codified explicitly, isn't any more, though is still commonly taken to be the rule in the absence of anything explicitly saying otherwise).

Otherwise, the rear first class carriage in the direction of travel of all Class 700 trains seems to be always declassified (unless this has changed since March this year). This should be reflected in the information provided on the screens on the trains.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

What about Rainham to Luton? Is that just one end or is it both?

 

[Muzer]

Picking a train completely at random it is listed as being "standard only" and therefore is completely declassified. Please do check the train you wish to travel on though, just to be safe! I assume the whole route is the same but I don't know for sure; I haven't checked each one!

 

[Nick66]

What about Rainham to Luton? Is that just one end or is it both?

As I understood it rear only, however there is no First Class shown on the timetable and RTT says standard only (just checked for the train in on at the moment). Maybe someone knows for certain. Rear is certainly declassified as sometimes shown on the displays and I survived two RPI checks in the rear first last week, both on the same journey.

 

[bringbackcrouc]

Picking a train completely at random it is listed as being "standard only" and therefore is completely declassified. Please do check the train you wish to travel on though, just to be safe! I assume the whole route is the same but I don't know for sure; I haven't checked each one!

Thank you

 

[bringbackcrouc]

As I understood it rear only, however there is no First Class shown on the timetable and RTT says standard only (just checked for the train in on at the moment). Maybe someone knows for certain. Rear is certainly declassified as sometimes shown on the displays and I survived two RPI checks in the rear first last week, both on the same journey.

Thank You

 

[cambsy]

The rear first class on all Thameslink 700’s is declassified, as have done a few journeys using declassified first, Brighton-Bedford and Brighton-Cambridge, if the train is shown as standard only then both first class sections are declassified, it is a well known secret amongst commuters and enthusiasts, as not publicised on the whole, I like the single seat facing, always make a beeline for it.

 

[talldave]

What's frustrating is that the incompetent Thameslink Twitter team are still putting out misinformation about first class. For example, conveniently forgetting that some routes have no first at all.

 

[Kite159]

Just be prepared to stand your ground if you come across an offduty cleaner who thinks the rear first class area is their own private space.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Has anything changed on this lately? Is the rear of the Brighton TL trains still declassified? No obvious advice on this either on TL's website or on the signage on the train (although it does tell me that one out of five toilets is occupied).

 

[Mag_seven]

Has anything changed on this lately? Is the rear of the Brighton TL trains still declassified? No obvious advice on this either on TL's website or on the signage on the train (although it does tell me that one out of five toilets is occupied).

The station announcements at Farringdon, City Thameslink etc always state that first class is at the front of the train when announcing a Brighton service.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, rear first class very much still declassified. Just don't nick "my" seat

 

[Failed Unit]

It is typically the rear is declassified as all posters have said. It does of course cause confusion on Great Northern where they still have some comfortable trains but only they don't have any declassification.

Even worse the London KX - Welwyn garden city peak services (such as the 1806) have on the displays "this area is for first class ticket holders only" - the train is standard only in the timetbale. Don't know if first class fares exist to New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet but that could cause interesting conversations if an RPI did try to penalty fare anyone.

 

[VT 390]

Why did first class need to been class 700's (especially the 8 cars) in the first place?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why did first class need to been class 700's (especially the 8 cars) in the first place?

Because the posh Home Counties commuters (particularly those from Snorbens) would whine if there wasn't? Of course Chiltern got rid, but then their Standard seating is nicer than 1st in the 700s.

I really don't see the point in this silliness, though. Make it all 1st, and just introduce / reduce 1st fares on the relevant sections of route so as to fill it.

 

[NeroWolfe]

I, too, wondered if the declassification had changed - as before Christmas this was the sign but I travelled on GN on Tuesday to London and it had changed to First Class only.

 

[Haywain]

Why did first class need to been class 700's (especially the 8 cars) in the first place?

Because the DfT specified and ordered the trains.

 

[Hadders]

1st class is required on the outer suburban services imo. Journeys such as Cambridge or Peterborough to London, or beyond should have that option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I, too, wondered if the declassification had changed - as before Christmas this was the sign but I travelled on GN on Tuesday to London and it had changed to First Class only.

View attachment 58116 View attachment 58117

I *thought* it was:

Former Thameslink CityMetro routes: no 1st
Former Thameslink CityFlyer routes: front coach only, rear declassified
Former GN routes: all First Class in use

 

[Ianno87]

Because the posh Home Counties commuters (particularly those from Snorbens) would whine if there wasn't? Of course Chiltern got rid, but then their Standard seating is nicer than 1st in the 700s.

I really don't see the point in this silliness, though. Make it all 1st, and just introduce / reduce 1st fares on the relevant sections of route so as to fill it.

Someone may correct me, but does having nominal advertised First Class seats on a train make a difference to ORCATS revenue allocation of First Class fare revenue.

Take someone booking a first class ticket from (say) Hitchin to Bristol. Does having FC from Hitchin to London swing a tiny bit more recenue GTR's way (from GWR) as a result? Or even first class revenue from Stevenage, Bedford, etc.?

 

[Hadders]

The rear carriage of the 700s is always declassified.

The front carriage may also be declassified, depending on the service operates. For example Sutton Loop services are declassified in the front as well.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I *thought* it was:

Former Thameslink CityMetro routes: no 1st
Former Thameslink CityFlyer routes: front coach only, rear declassified
Former GN routes: all First Class in use

What about routes that don't fit into those categories?

 

[717001]

The rear carriage of the 700s is always declassified.

The front carriage may also be declassified, depending on the service operates. For example Sutton Loop services are declassified in the front as well.

Agree. The WGC-KGX semifast peak services are also fully declassified (no first class tickets available). The Twitter team occasionally use a useful graphic in answer to questions but it currently completely omits these.

Have been aware of some confusion when a GN train (i.e. not a 700) is used for a TL service, which occasionally happens at weekends. In that event it seems that all first class should be considered operational.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, if a 365 or 387 rocks up then first class is in operation everywhere... although I'd hope staff would show discretion when it says 'first class is at the front of the train'. While that does NOT say it's declassified anywhere else, that's the likely assumption (and indeed true on a 700). I'd expect someone caught in the back first class of a 365 would have grounds to make an appeal if a PF was ever issued.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, if a 365 or 387 rocks up then first class is in operation everywhere... although I'd hope staff would show discretion when it says 'first class is at the front of the train'. While that does NOT say it's declassified anywhere else, that's the likely assumption (and indeed true on a 700). I'd expect someone caught in the back first class of a 365 would have grounds to make an appeal if a PF was ever issued.

I doubt it, in every other context that’s just for convenience of 1st passengers knowing where it can be found.

 

[Aictos]

What about routes that don't fit into those categories?

Such as MML services to Kent ie Bedford to East Grinstead, Luton to Rainham etc...

I guess the former is 1st only at the front of the service but with the latter, is it a standard only service or does it have 1st class but at the front only?

I know that on the MML, 1st is always at the front of the service which is why the rear 1st class when it's declassified every Tom, Dick and Harry makes a beeline for it...