What are drivers allowed to do?

[craigybagel]

I enjoy the route it’s on, I couldn’t be a guard on it though, I’d end up getting sacked, I’m happy enough in my cab though. The short circuit bar does look a bit scary to be fair, probably best we don’t carry them. Haha.

Yeah, I feel the same about a fair few routes at your place - I'd happily be a driver there but never a guard! I'm in a talent pool for driver for there and for my own depot so hopefully I might get to try out those ideas myself.

In the meantime, I'll have a word with one of the cockney drivers we have to see what they think of DC and if we really should be scared of those platforms

 

[ComUtoR]

In the meantime, I'll have a word with one of the cockney drivers we have to see what they think of DC and if we really should be scared of those platforms

You can step over/next to DC and I regularly do and think nothing of it. AC is the scary stuff.

 

[sw1ller]

I once witnessed the power of the 3rd rail at Ellesmere Port station when 3 stray dogs decided to have a wonder round. That was over 18 years ago and I still remember it. I’ll happily stay clear of both AC and DC.

 

[craigybagel]

You can step over/next to DC and I regularly do and think nothing of it. AC is the scary stuff.

AC is great, it's nice and high up so don't need to worry about it (especially at a Diesel only TOC!). And most of the AC bits I sign were electrified in the sixties so they actually stay up where they're meant to.....

 

[Gooner18]

From what I remember( at it’s been years since I have done anything with Ohms law)AC generally requires less Amps to get hold of you as you will hold on to AC, where as DC requires more Amps( current ) as it throws you off , either case in terms of a railway Voltage and current it’s not gonna end well

 

[sw1ller]

From what I remember( at it’s been years since I have done anything with Ohms law)AC generally requires less Amps to get hold of you as you will hold on to AC, where as DC requires more Amps( current ) as it throws you off , either case in terms of a railway Voltage and current it’s not gonna end well

That’s not what happened to the dog. But I fear we’re massively going off thread here. Haha.

 

[Mintona]

Having driven DC trains, diesel trains and now AC trains, none of them are anything to worry about as long as you don’t touch anything you’re not supposed to! More concerned about a hot exhaust on a diesel train than a conductor rail or OLE.

 

[Kneedown]

Even though they'll never be under wires or over 3rd rail?
Seems a pointless piece of learning if you'll never use it.

Even if you only drive diesels, chances are your route knowledge will take you on electrified lines of some description. Correct safety and isolation procedure competence is essential.

 

[Gooner18]

Out of interest what happens to current employees contracts when a new company takes over a franchise, for example arriva taking over London overground, or when abellio took over the greater anglia franchise etc

 

[ComUtoR]

https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers

Overview
When a business changes owner, its employees may be protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE).

TUPE protection
TUPE applies to employees of businesses in the UK.

The business could have its head office in another country, but the part of the business that’s transferring ownership must be in the UK.

The size of the business doesn’t matter.

When TUPE applies:

• the employees’ jobs usually transfer over to the new company - exceptions could be if they’re made redundant or in some cases where the business is insolvent
• their employment terms and conditions transfer
• continuity of employment is maintained

You get TUPE'd over

 

[sw1ller]

Out of interest what happens to current employees contracts when a new company takes over a franchise, for example arriva taking over London overground, or when abellio took over the greater anglia franchise etc

You might get a new tie and hat with a name badge that says your wrong job title on it.

 

[E_Reeves]

You can step over/next to DC and I regularly do and think nothing of it. AC is the scary stuff.

But you're much closer to the DC than the AC? There's hardly any risk of touching AC unless you're doing something you shouldn't or not being safe about it

 

[bramling]

You can step over/next to DC and I regularly do and think nothing of it. AC is the scary stuff.

This is an open question, however how many people in their careers working with DC electrification have heard of staff being electrocuted whilst in the execution of duty?

I know of the freight driver who tragically died near Deal a decade or so ago, however that’s the only example I can readily think of.

Having said that, operating staff are possibly less likely to hear of incidents involving p-way staff.

I’d say DC is reasonably safe providing one isn’t complacent.

 

[Kneedown]

But you're much closer to the DC than the AC? There's hardly any risk of touching AC unless you're doing something you shouldn't or not being safe about it

I remember not so long ago, a Virgin Driver getting a bad shocked from a fallen contact wire that he didn't see, that still held a residual voltage. Fortunately he survived.

 

[E_Reeves]

I remember not so long ago, a Virgin Driver getting a bad shocked from a fallen contact wire that he didn't see, that still held a residual voltage. Fortunately he survived.

I agree it's dangerous stuff when you're near it, but how often do contact wires fall? Not very often I'd assume...

 

[Kneedown]

I agree it's dangerous stuff when you're near it, but how often do contact wires fall? Not very often I'd assume...

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it's a regular occurrence on the WCML. I believe it happens fairly frequently on the ECML and MML south of Bedford, where headspans were used.

 

[ComUtoR]

But you're much closer to the DC than the AC? There's hardly any risk of touching AC unless you're doing something you shouldn't or not being safe about it

From the very first day all the dangers are highlighted to you. Rightly or wrongly it puts the fear of God into you. But, as highlighted upthread. You get trained on how to deal with it all and it becomes almost something you can ignore because you deal with it all day long. Still AC makes me wary the most. That constant caution that it may arc and the need to maintain distance is hardwired.

This is an open question, however how many people in their careers working with DC electrification have heard of staff being electrocuted whilst in the execution of duty?

Over the years I could count them on one hand but as you say, we don't hear about them. We hear the big ones. Also, because we are trained in its use and dangers and how to avoid it so you wouldn't get that many.

I’d say DC is reasonably safe providing one isn’t complacent.

And you know how safety conscious we tend to be.

I agree it's dangerous stuff when you're near it, but how often do contact wires fall? Not very often I'd assume...

Pretty often. I'm forever hearing about wires down. But its not just wires down. Its inspecting your pantograph when it goes bang and the lights go out...

 

[driver9000]

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think it's a regular occurrence on the WCML. I believe it happens fairly frequently on the ECML and MML south of Bedford, where headspans were used.

Far more frequent on the ECML than WCML.

 

[tsr]

I remember not so long ago, a Virgin Driver getting a bad shocked from a fallen contact wire that he didn't see, that still held a residual voltage. Fortunately he survived.

There have also been a number of events with overhead lines falling onto, or very near, platforms. I believe there is an RAIB report about one such incident involving the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, which could theoretically have resulted in numerous fatalities.

A displaced third rail, by contrast, is highly unlikely to directly injure anyone and is much more likely to simply cause damage to trains.

 

[whhistle]

From what I remember AC generally requires less Amps to get hold of you as you will hold on to AC, where as DC requires more Amps as it throws you off

Isn't it the other way round?

DC draws you in.
AC blasts you off?

 

[Gooner18]

Isn't it the other way round?

DC draws you in.
AC blasts you off?

Hmmm, it has been many years since I done anything to do with AC and DC, maybe DC needs a lot more voltage / currency for it to hold on to you ?

 

[sw1ller]

Isn't it the other way round?

DC draws you in.
AC blasts you off?

Yep. Having seen it first hand I can confirm this is correct.

 

[driver9000]

Isn't it the other way round?

DC draws you in.
AC blasts you off?

That's how I was taught it - "AC chucks, DC sucks".

 

[Gooner18]

Really , I thought it was the other way round.

 

[tsr]

Really , I thought it was the other way round.

It isn’t.

A DC supply will continue to hold you in contact if you’re touching it because muscles typically contract when an electrical supply is present. (One of the best demonstrations of this principle, by the way, is how bionic limb control sometimes works - the limb reads the electrical nerve endings transmitting a signal to contract various parts.) This means your hands would clamp around the rail and your body would scrunch up - in theory.

By contrast, an AC supply will not continue to hold the body present continuously. Therefore it will momentarily hold you for a fraction of a second, but then it will release, which effectively makes your body throw you away. Think about the horror stories you sometimes hear from people who touch a stray piece of live AC equipment around the home - if they’re able to tell you much, it’s normally that they were thrown across the room with some force.

 

[Gooner18]

It isn’t.

A DC supply will continue to hold you in contact if you’re touching it because muscles typically contract when an electrical supply is present. (One of the best demonstrations of this principle, by the way, is how bionic limb control sometimes works - the limb reads the electrical nerve endings transmitting a signal to contract various parts.) This means your hands would clamp around the rail and your body would scrunch up - in theory.

By contrast, an AC supply will not continue to hold the body present continuously. Therefore it will momentarily hold you for a fraction of a second, but then it will release, which effectively makes your body throw you away. Think about the horror stories you sometimes hear from people who touch a stray piece of live AC equipment around the home - if they’re able to tell you much, it’s normally that they were thrown across the room with some force.

Ahh ok , my bad. Although is the part that DC requires my current to be lethal ?not sure why I think that though

 

[Bigfoot]

Really , I thought it was the other way round.

Give it a try, you'll soon know the truth.

 

[Gooner18]

Give it a try, you'll soon know the truth.

I thank you for this offer, unfortunately this time I will decline lol