What are drivers allowed to do?

[Halifaxlad]

Hi all I am looking for clarification, specifically whenever drivers can leave their cabs to deal with an emergency involving passengers?

 

[tsr]

Drivers regularly end up leaving cabs to deal with all manner of stuff, passenger incidents included. It can be a few minutes before they emerge, as they’ll generally need to speak to the signaller first, not to mention working out roughly what the problem might be, and speaking to any other crew onboard.

If there is a guard or similar, they will typically be first to respond to passenger matters, and often the driver will only step in if they don’t hear anything for a while, or if they’ve been specifically asked to. On a driver-only train, much of the assessment of what’s happening will be made by the driver, so as soon as they’re alerted to a problem, the process will often end up with them stopping at a station (usually a booked stop) and taking a look at the very least.

It would be wholly impractical for drivers to be cooped up in their cabs permanently, and would be hopelessly dangerous in the event of a major passenger issue such as dealing with a fire or evacuation. For lesser issues but those with safety implications, such as a passenger alarm being activated, waiting for someone else may sometimes cause undue delay and prevent any required help from being deployed if there is a problem.

Some differences in behaviour also occur due to varying willingness of drivers to step in to deal with problems. Some, for example, may be happy to leave their cabs to try to deal with a distressed passenger at a station or to help a trespasser away from the track, but others may wish to simply communicate the issues as they see them. Some will be more confident than others in dealing with situations like unattended items, because in the real world away from a procedure on paper, that’s just how it is.

 

[ComUtoR]

Hi all I am looking for clarification, specifically whenever drivers can leave their cabs to deal with an emergency involving passengers?

What happened to prompt this ?

 

[Surreytraveller]

If the driver needs to leave the cab, then the driver needs to leave the cab. As long as the signaller has been informed so that no one is wondering why the train isn't going anywhere (the recent report into the Peckham Rye evacuation explains this) and any signals can be replaced to danger to enable conflicting moves to take place, and the cab is secure (so that no one can cause mischief), then the driver needs to do what the driver needs to do.

 

[Mintona]

I left the cab earlier for a quick loo break. Arrived a couple of minutes early into a station so secured the cab and popped back. We’re hardly ‘trapped’.

 

[Halifaxlad]

NOTHING has prompted this, its just a query.

I do remember reading something about drivers not being allowed to leave their cabs for some reason or another.

Anyway thanks for answers.

 

[TRAX]

I left the cab earlier for a quick loo break. Arrived a couple of minutes early into a station so secured the cab and popped back. We’re hardly ‘trapped’.

What would you do to secure the cab ? Emergency brake, DRA, Master Switch to OFF and Master Key removed, is that it/the right order ?

 

[LCC106]

What would you do to secure the cab ? Emergency brake, DRA, Master Switch to OFF and Master Key removed, is that it/the right order ?

Just put the brake handle to fully on, no need to put in emergency but otherwise yes, just as you say.

 

[TRAX]

Right thank you !

 

[ComUtoR]

NOTHING has prompted this, its just a query.

No worries. Its usually an incident that prompts debates like this. Its a bit of an odd random question.

I do remember reading something about drivers not being allowed to leave their cabs for some reason or another.

We can get out the cab for various reasons. It's all situational. If I'm getting out the cab for reason A then I carry out a specific set of tasks with a specific set of skills. Especially in an 'emergency' its an umbrella term for a variety of reasons. Do I need lines blocked ? Isolation ? What equipment to grab etc ?

In all situations its Call the Sig, DRA, Secure cab.

 

[Bigfoot]

Just put the brake handle to fully on, no need to put in emergency but otherwise yes, just as you say.

Depends on the driving policy of the company who operates the train. Some require the train to be left in emergency

 

[Kneedown]

Just put the brake handle to fully on, no need to put in emergency but otherwise yes, just as you say.

Not forgetting to ensure the cab access door is properly shut behind you.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Until a few years ago it was common for the driver to leave the cab to call the signaller on the SPT.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

The driver of a train I was on a couple of years ago left the cab (just about, stood by the open door) to tell a passenger who had just boarded that they were standing too close to the platform edge as the train was pulling into the station. The passenger didn’t respond well. I imagine from the way the driver reacted that he had had a similar situation before with less fortunate results, so his reaction was understandable. However I can also see how the passenger could have felt humiliated (it was a busy train, and the driver described how the situation could have led to worse results in blunt terms). I don’t mean to criticise the driver’s response, obviously safety comes before politeness, it’s just one of those difficult situations where both responses are understandable. There was also a guard onboard who hadn’t been informed of the reason for delay (as he announced while it was occurring).

 

[westv]

Until a few years ago it was common for the driver to leave the cab to call the signaller on the SPT.

I didn't realise they didn't do that anymore!

 

[trentside]

I didn't realise they didn't do that anymore!

Joys of the GSM-R, no need for climbing on and off trains in all weathers.

 

[ComUtoR]

Except when the bloody thing fails. Worse, I think is the removal of SPTs We now have a rather large area where they no longer exist. The lunacy is that the number provided to call cannot be called using the GSMR. Whoops !

 

[Dave1987]

Except when the bloody thing fails. Worse, I think is the removal of SPTs We now have a rather large area where they no longer exist. The lunacy is that the number provided to call cannot be called using the GSMR. Whoops !

Or went you get the 'fart in a bath' noise as the signal drops out and you then need to use the SPT.

 

[Skie]

Or you need to activate the ballast circuit.

 

[trentside]

These things always happen when it's raining too...

My level of sympapthy directly correlates to how much I like my driver!

 

[whhistle]

Do I need lines blocked ? Isolation ? What equipment to grab etc ?

Would drivers in diesel only areas/traction have training for isolation of power lines?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Anyway what does everyone think of Regulation 4 of The Railway Safety (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 1997.

"Regulation 4 places a duty on operators of vehicles being used for the carriage of fare paying passengers to provide and maintain means of communication between passengers and a person who in an emergency is in a position to take appropriate action.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/553/note/made

It would seem that this would apply to drivers when trains are ran without a guard.

 

[Kneedown]

Would drivers in diesel only areas/traction have training for isolation of power lines?

Of course. All Driver's need to be able to take the correct action in an emergency.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Anyway what does everyone think of Regulation 4 of The Railway Safety (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 1997.

"Regulation 4 places a duty on operators of vehicles being used for the carriage of fare paying passengers to provide and maintain means of communication between passengers and a person who in an emergency is in a position to take appropriate action.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/553/note/made

It would seem that this would apply to drivers when trains are ran without a guard.

Isn't that referring to the passcom?

 

[ComUtoR]

Isn't that referring to the passcom?

Yes. It also doesn't state anything about leaving the cab. Just that it needs to communicate with someone who can take action. As to how that affects Guards I'm not 100%

If a Guard is roaming the train and a Passcom is activated then they would (on our units) have no idea that one has been pulled. The alarm sounds in the cab. It would need someone to confirm how the Passcom is operated on each specific unit where Guards are provided and how they would be notified a Passcom has been activated. But I suspect that it is purely for the Driver in all cases. Happy to be corrected.

 

[craigybagel]

Would drivers in diesel only areas/traction have training for isolation of power lines?

Of course. All Driver's need to be able to take the correct action in an emergency.

Guards too. My rule book includes the DC module and I am fully conversant on how to deal with it, even though of the hundreds of miles I sign, the only DC section is basically 1 platform at 1 station.

 

[tiptoptaff]

In 3rd rail DC areas guards and drivers will be trained to use the short circuit bar to get an emergency isolation in the immediate area.

In overhead AC areas the only safe way to do it is via an REC to the siggy, who'll contact the ECO for an emergency isolation

 

[Tomnick]

If a Guard is roaming the train and a Passcom is activated then they would (on our units) have no idea that one has been pulled. The alarm sounds in the cab. It would need someone to confirm how the Passcom is operated on each specific unit where Guards are provided and how they would be notified a Passcom has been activated. But I suspect that it is purely for the Driver in all cases. Happy to be corrected.

On 15x traction (and presumably 14x), there's no specific indication that a passcom has been pulled - only that you'll lose the brake and there'll be a hazard light lit on the affected vehicle (which could be caused by some other things). It's usually easier for the Guard to investigate further, especially if it's at their end of the train.

 

[bengley]

Depends on the driving policy of the company who operates the train. Some require the train to be left in emergency

Not required if you key out. Key out automatically puts brake in emergency. Emergency if you leave the cab without keying out.

 

[TRAX]

So you can actually leave the cab without keying out ?