Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[SWTH]

It is my understanding that a Vario with tacho/boot etc (and no standees) would be certified as a coach and issued with an appropriate Schedule 3 certificate. I know of two 53 plate Varios that we used to operate that were as such. They can still be used on local bus service work until 2020 by the current owners.

This might help further
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1970/note/made?view=plain

Thanks for the link, here is a quote from it:

2. Regulation 3 applies the requirements of these Schedules to the various types of public service vehicle according to the date when they are first used. New buses weighing more than 7.5 tonnes and new double-deck buses must comply with both Schedules 1 and 2 from 31 December 2000 and all such buses which are in use must meet these requirements after 2016 and 2017. New buses weighing 7.5 tonnes or less and new coaches must from 31 December 2000 comply with Schedules 2 or 3 respectively until 1 January 2005, after which new vehicles of these kinds must also comply with Schedule 1. All these regulated public service vehicles must meet the wheelchair accessibility requirements and those of the appropriate general accessibility requirements if in use after 1 January 2015 (for buses weighing 7.5 tonnes or less) or 2020 (for coaches). There is an exception in the case of regulated public service vehicles that are manufactured before 1 October 2000 and 1 October 2004; they are not required to comply with the requirements of the relevant Schedules unless and until they are in use on or after 1 January in either 2015 or 2016 or 2017 or 2020 as appropriate.

Again, just like the legislation document, there is no weight definition for a coach, therefore my understanding is that a coach-spec Vario (i.e no standing allowed) is allowed to be used on service work until 2020. If they are classed legally as a coach, then they can be used. A Vario specified as a bus (i.e has standing capacity) cannot now be used on registered service work.

 

[Stan Drews]

Thanks for the link, here is a quote from it:



Again, just like the legislation document, there is no weight definition for a coach, therefore my understanding is that a coach-spec Vario (i.e no standing allowed) is allowed to be used on service work until 2020. If they are classed legally as a coach, then they can be used. A Vario specified as a bus (i.e has standing capacity) cannot now be used on registered service work.

Correct, although I think only applicable to vehicles registered between the 2000 and 2005 dates, with the appropriate documentation from new, or provided subsequently by VOSA/DVSA if "lost".

 

[richw]

499ymk, y447nhk and wk04kuo have all been photographed on Flickr working in Southampton in the last week.

 

[Goldfish62]

Anyway, it's a moot point now because apart from the two DDA ones and the Jubilee one all have either gone to Ensign or to scrap.

They were clearly trying it on using some for a few days beyond the deadline.

A number of ex London General SB120s are on their way to WG.

 

[mbonwick]

Wonder how long the SB120s will last...not the most robust of vehicles from what I've heard...

 

[SWTH]

Anyway, it's a moot point now because apart from the two DDA ones and the Jubilee one all have either gone to Ensign or to scrap.

They were clearly trying it on using some for a few days beyond the deadline.

A number of ex London General SB120s are on their way to WG.

581 has just passed me at Treliske. Didn't notice what service it was on, about the right time for a 587/588/594/whateveritisthisweek though. Doubt we've seen the last of then for a while yet.

 

[iantherev]

Has anyone seen any of the Velvet or Pennine buses in service in Cornwall yet? I have spent some time in St Austell & Newquay this week but not seen them.

The Pennine Darts have been on the 510 - sighted and photographed by others in Exeter.
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Velvet have now announced that Xelabus will be operating their Southampton services from 12th January (the effective date of the WG registrations) and timetables are now up on the Xelabus website. Last minute change of plan or does the right hand not know what the left is doing?

 

[Robertj21a]

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Velvet have now announced that Xelabus will be operating their Southampton services from 12th January (the effective date of the WG registrations) and timetables are now up on the Xelabus website. Last minute change of plan or does the right hand not know what the left is doing?

Watch this space for further developments.

 

[richw]

581 has just passed me at Treliske. Didn't notice what service it was on, about the right time for a 587/588/594/whateveritisthisweek though. Doubt we've seen the last of then for a while yet.

581 was on the 594 this morning at 0930 off Treliske. I gave up trying to read the rear number plate when I was following it so obscured with dirt and just looked at the fleet number!
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Velvet bus Southampton operations this weekend are being taken over from Monday By xelabus on all routes.
Xelabus have a news story on their website confirming they will be operating with their own green liveried vehicles.

I'm guessing this means the entire velvet fleet will transfer to WG.
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Also 5 of western greyhounds 6 mortgage charges that were in the recent accounts are now showing as satisfied which sounds relatively positive.

 

[fgwrich]

Anyway, it's a moot point now because apart from the two DDA ones and the Jubilee one all have either gone to Ensign or to scrap.

They were clearly trying it on using some for a few days beyond the deadline.

A number of ex London General SB120s are on their way to WG.

The first one appears to be on it's way as this video on the M25 shows - Although I'm surprised to see it retaining it's centre door.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wande...HsT-ne7FKE-ne4TVU-ng7tox-ne6gyq-ngccrG-ng7xxH

581 was on the 594 this morning at 0930 off Treliske. I gave up trying to read the rear number plate when I was following it so obscured with dirt and just looked at the fleet number!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Velvet bus Southampton operations this weekend are being taken over from Monday By xelabus on all routes.
Xelabus have a news story on their website confirming they will be operating with their own green liveried vehicles.

I'm guessing this means the entire velvet fleet will transfer to WG.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also 5 of western greyhounds 6 mortgage charges that were in the recent accounts are now showing as satisfied which sounds relatively positive.

So what was the point of moving some of WGs fleet to Southampton then, and the recent registrations in Southampton as well? The Velvet / Xela situation has always been rather odd, but to just bow down to Phil Blair's organisation seems a little odd to say the least.

 

[richw]

The first one appears to be on it's way as this video on the M25 shows - Although I'm surprised to see it retaining it's centre door.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wande...HsT-ne7FKE-ne4TVU-ng7tox-ne6gyq-ngccrG-ng7xxH




So what was the point of moving some of WGs fleet to Southampton then, and the recent registrations in Southampton as well? The Velvet / Xela situation has always been rather odd, but to just bow down to Phil Blair's organisation seems a little odd to say the least.

Apparently the buses sent to Southampton were temporary positioning on their way to ensign to release vehicles wanted in Cornwall from the velvet fleet. Xelabus haven't registered anything with the TC as yet neither which makes their announcement stranger.

Seems WG are giving up on their ex London tridents. 3 look in withdrawn state in the yard, 1 was written off in last years storms, 2 have been sent to Southampton. They only had 9 of them. Bright pink buses have been arriving down here almost daily, as well as velvet's ex pennine darts.

 

[fgwrich]

Apparently the buses sent to Southampton were temporary positioning on their way to ensign to release vehicles wanted in Cornwall from the velvet fleet. Xelabus haven't registered anything with the TC as yet neither which makes their announcement stranger.

Seems WG are giving up on their ex London tridents. 3 look in withdrawn state in the yard, 1 was written off in last years storms, 2 have been sent to Southampton. They only had 9 of them. Bright pink buses have been arriving down here almost daily, as well as velvet's ex pennine darts.

And yet I thought we'd seen the last of the bizarreness of Greyhound. Have they taken the ex Stagecoach ALX 300s down there yet as well - I'm struggling to think what Velvet had left in the way of a fleet other than Solo's and Tridents. In fact, it would be somewhat ironic if the Velvet Plaxton Presidents make their way down to Greyhound - Greyhound of course used to have some in their previous fleet.

 

[richw]

And yet I thought we'd seen the last of the bizarreness of Greyhound. Have they taken the ex Stagecoach ALX 300s down there yet as well - I'm struggling to think what Velvet had left in the way of a fleet other than Solo's and Tridents. In fact, it would be somewhat ironic if the Velvet Plaxton Presidents make their way down to Greyhound - Greyhound of course used to have some in their previous fleet.

I would love to see a bright pink Plaxton president turn up! There is about 5-6 darts here from velvet and a solo that I've seen photos on Flickr or seen myself.
Plus the SB120s on the way from London.
Certainly an interesting fleet for the enthusiast point of variety, I'm sure there is more colour than with all the mix and match after the fire now!

 

[fgwrich]

It certainly seems to be that way! Although looking through a variety of Flickr Streams tonight the vehicles dumped at Summercourt are hardly inspiring me with confidence - there seems to be a few repainted then robbed Darts in there.

Oh and I like this solo, much changed to last years lack of destination farce, this one appears to be apologising for itself. Or it's new operators.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/aderoberts/16039016659/in/photostream/

 

[Goldfish62]

581 has just passed me at Treliske. Didn't notice what service it was on, about the right time for a 587/588/594/whateveritisthisweek though. Doubt we've seen the last of then for a while yet.

Not according to Mark Howarth. Get a photo if you see one again. May be the last time.

 

[SWTH]

Not according to Mark Howarth. Get a photo if you see one again. May be the last time.

Mark Howarth doesn't exactly have an inspiring track record when it comes to telling the truth. He'll say whatever he needs to in order to look good at that particular moment, regardless of who else it affects.

That said, the Varios do need to go, they are pretty much life-expired. A handful are ok, but 10+ years of 18hr days being hammered around Cornwall on tight schedules has taken its toll on them.

 

[richw]

Mark Howarth doesn't exactly have an inspiring track record when it comes to telling the truth.

I don't think what he said when he was owner has any relevance anymore. The new owner may make other decisions to keep them

 

[fgwrich]

Looking at the link from richw in the first Kernow thread appears to show the Jubilee and another 2 Vario still out in service, Along with a rather scruffy presumably ex Nottingham Solo, while the ex Pennine Darts surprisingly struggle along on the 510. Wouldn't have thought those Vario's will have long left in service by now!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbuspics/15628589053/in/photostream/

 

[richw]

Looking at the link from richw in the first Kernow thread appears to show the Jubilee and another 2 Vario still out in service, Along with a rather scruffy presumably ex Nottingham Solo, while the ex Pennine Darts surprisingly struggle along on the 510. Wouldn't have thought those Vario's will have long left in service by now!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbuspics/15628589053/in/photostream/

There is still I believe 10 varios in service. The solo is indeed ex Nottingham. One of the ex Nottingham solos still has a full sized rear advert for a Nottingham vw dealer!
In that link both ULL933 and X239HBC are ex Nottingham. There are either 5 or 6 ex Nottingham solos in the fleet

 

[Volvo142]

A good buy, since they're well maintained and didn't need repainting!

 

[MCR247]

The exNCT solos were originally only loaned for the fire but NCT were going to sell them anyway so WG took them

 

[Goldfish62]

Mark Howarth doesn't exactly have an inspiring track record when it comes to telling the truth. He'll say whatever he needs to in order to look good at that particular moment, regardless of who else it affects.

You make a good point!

 

[richw]

A picture of one the new additions I seen today. The pink is like a flashback of Western Greyhound of 10 years ago!

SHZ2046 by Rich.W., on Flickr

 

[South Westerly]

Likewise the definition of a bus is:



A Vario fits the latter regardless of the type of seating in my opinion.

Looking online regarding the matter, it seems a lot of operators are still using Varios across the country and its creating a bit of discussion on bus forums.

Is the regulation maximum weight?

I've just found an online retailer advertising a 54 plate Vario Beaver, and the advert states maximum laden weight 7500kg.

Is the regulation under 7.5t or equal or less than 7.5t?
The wording may make a difference if they are 7500kg, as if that advert is accurate they would be allowed depending on whether the wording says less than 7.5t as that would mean they are not less than 7.5t.
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I've seen the 02 plate Pennine working in Truro.

Don't forget that any route can be operated for up to 14 days by non DDA vehicles though. They can get all 14 days in right away if they wish!
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Also 5 of western greyhounds 6 mortgage charges that were in the recent accounts are now showing as satisfied which sounds relatively positive.

Yes, the sale of the newer Solos to GoAhead paid off the overdraft and put some cash in the bank account. But the problem was the underlying losses being made by the business day in day out. It's unlikely that those losses have been stemmed, and the fuel consumption of a Vario would be considerably higher than any of those replacements.

 

[richw]

They've canceled the 510 and 599 from feb which I can't imagine being economical routes. Pretty much all double deckers are now withdrawn which at a guess are the worst on fuel?
How does the transfer of vehicles from velvet work? Would WG pay for them or get them free? Most of the vehicles arriving from ensign were purchased by velvet not WG.
Would their be a fee for transfer, market value or peppercorn fee? If the latter with the imminent closure of velvet effective free buses will help the books.

 

[swifty]

They've canceled the 510 and 599 from feb which I can't imagine being economical routes. Pretty much all double deckers are now withdrawn which at a guess are the worst on fuel?

There's actually some ex GoAhead London Volvo B7/Presidents coming down from Ensign soon.

 

[South Westerly]

They've canceled the 510 and 599 from feb which I can't imagine being economical routes. Pretty much all double deckers are now withdrawn which at a guess are the worst on fuel?
How does the transfer of vehicles from velvet work? Would WG pay for them or get them free? Most of the vehicles arriving from ensign were purchased by velvet not WG.
Would their be a fee for transfer, market value or peppercorn fee? If the latter with the imminent closure of velvet effective free buses will help the books.

Whatever the arrangements, the day to day losses are the biggest issue. Before competition from First Kernow the losses were racking up. They must be even bigger now. Add to that the fact than on what should be some of their best grossing routes, they still aren't running the full PVR. They'll need to cut a lot more than the 510, and presumably a lot of Sunday and Evening journeys that MH took commercially when the contract money went elsewhere or disappeared. The problem is that the best routes that would have been the ones to retain are now suffering direct competition, and on the ground it looks like First Kernow is winning the battle for the passengers.

 

[SWTH]

There is still I believe 10 varios in service. The solo is indeed ex Nottingham. One of the ex Nottingham solos still has a full sized rear advert for a Nottingham vw dealer!
In that link both ULL933 and X239HBC are ex Nottingham. There are either 5 or 6 ex Nottingham solos in the fleet

4 ex-Nottingham Solos in fleet when I left.

921, 922, 923 & 933. 921 & 933 are repainted, 922/3 are in ex-NCT livery. They are all very poor machines, some of the worst Solos I've ever driven. NCT definitely had their money's worth out of them. 921 had an especially disconcerting issue with the steering where on long right-handers the steering would shake violently.

Seen a handful of Varios over the last two days at RCH Treliske and passing through Goonhavern, though I've not been close enough to identify them. None of them were 591/592/599 though (all 3 have distinctive features to identify at distance.

 

[fgwrich]

4 ex-Nottingham Solos in fleet when I left.

921, 922, 923 & 933. 921 & 933 are repainted, 922/3 are in ex-NCT livery. They are all very poor machines, some of the worst Solos I've ever driven. NCT definitely had their money's worth out of them. 921 had an especially disconcerting issue with the steering where on long right-handers the steering would shake violently.

Seen a handful of Varios over the last two days at RCH Treliske and passing through Goonhavern, though I've not been close enough to identify them. None of them were 591/592/599 though (all 3 have distinctive features to identify at distance.

Having had one of those last year I can fully understand, and it's fairly obvious that NCT were happy to loan/flog them to WG as it get's them off their books. Certainly the roughest of the WG Solo bunch.

As for one still carrying a Notts based VW Dealer? I thought Stagecoach was bad having London City Airport branding inside some of the ex London ALX200s we had around here for 6 months, but to leave it in an almost unmodified NCT with advertisements state for two years is hardly inspiring.

 

[richw]

Having had one of those last year I can fully understand, and it's fairly obvious that NCT were happy to loan/flog them to WG as it get's them off their books. Certainly the roughest of the WG Solo bunch.

As for one still carrying a Notts based VW Dealer? I thought Stagecoach was bad having London City Airport branding inside some of the ex London ALX200s we had around here for 6 months, but to leave it in an almost unmodified NCT with advertisements state for two years is hardly inspiring.

Here is the ad 2 months ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56793...F5v-pun17v-pda3Eq-pd9VnB-pdayEd-psBcJC-pdaikL

4 ex-Nottingham Solos in fleet when I left.

921, 922, 923 & 933. 921 & 933 are repainted, 922/3 are in ex-NCT livery. They are all very poor machines, some of the worst Solos I've ever driven. NCT definitely had their money's worth out of them. 921 had an especially disconcerting issue with the steering where on long right-handers the steering would shake violently.

Seen a handful of Varios over the last two days at RCH Treliske and passing through Goonhavern, though I've not been close enough to identify them. None of them were 591/592/599 though (all 3 have distinctive features to identify at distance.

There are 4, the 5th I thought was ex NCT was Norfolk green.
I had the pleasure of you driving me on one of the ex NCT solos on one of my ride cornwall trips.

Distinctive features being the queen on 599, can only think of the nearside rear door on the ex sunset pair.