Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[daikilo]

They haven't got enough buses to cover their timetable at present so can't see it going unnoticed

If you are taliking about WG, not sure your are right. However, if they do recover, and Cornwall needs them, then it is because their owner and delivery team have not given up. Congratulations, keep going against adversity.

 

[SWTH]

If you are taliking about WG, not sure your are right. However, if they do recover, and Cornwall needs them, then it is because their owner and delivery team have not given up. Congratulations, keep going against adversity.

I can assure you it is down to a vehicle shortage, you may regard that information as grade A1.

 

[richw]

If you are taliking about WG, not sure your are right. However, if they do recover, and Cornwall needs them, then it is because their owner and delivery team have not given up. Congratulations, keep going against adversity.

100% correct sadly. Straight from the horses mouth at WG I gained this information.

(SWTH drives for them also, but is not my source of info.)

 

[83G/84D]

I can assure you it is down to a vehicle shortage, you may regard that information as grade A1.

I saw a Vario being towed down the westbound A30 near Bodmin around a week ago.

 

[Busaholic]

If you are taliking about WG, not sure your are right. However, if they do recover, and Cornwall needs them, then it is because their owner and delivery team have not given up. Congratulations, keep going against adversity.

Thank goodness there's someone on here who (A) isn't employed by Firstgroup, (B) supports David against Goliath and (C) speaks commonsense. If First were to get an almost total monopoly on bus and train services in Cornwall it would be a disaster for passengers and lead to huge cuts in bus services when their inflated tenders had to be rejected by a cash-strapped Cornwall Council. If W.G. can't survive, hope Stagecoach or Go-Ahead expand westwards.

 

[richw]

Thank goodness there's someone on here who (A) isn't employed by Firstgroup, (B) supports David against Goliath and (C) speaks commonsense. If First were to get an almost total monopoly on bus and train services in Cornwall it would be a disaster for passengers and lead to huge cuts in bus services when their inflated tenders had to be rejected by a cash-strapped Cornwall Council. If W.G. can't survive, hope Stagecoach or Go-Ahead expand westwards.

Unfortunately I'm none of those 3. However as as regular customer of both operators I ran out of support for western greyhound by their awful reliability.
Morning peak Newquay to Truro the bus didn't turn up more often than it turned up. How on earth can you expect genuine passengers to continue to support a company that fails to show up so frequently.

The fact you refer to firsts "inflated tenders" ruins your credibility. First tenders were considerably lower certainly not inflated for the council than many other operators, first have also gone commercial on many routes and making considerable investment in the coming month.

Your comments to me show you as an enthusiast and not a passenger who uses these services regularly and sees the real life operations.
I fall into both category's, as an enthusiast I love all the independents, as a passenger First get my vote as they are reliable and turn up when they are meant to.

 

[SWTH]

Thank goodness there's someone on here who (A) isn't employed by Firstgroup, (B) supports David against Goliath and (C) speaks commonsense. If First were to get an almost total monopoly on bus and train services in Cornwall it would be a disaster for passengers and lead to huge cuts in bus services when their inflated tenders had to be rejected by a cash-strapped Cornwall Council. If W.G. can't survive, hope Stagecoach or Go-Ahead expand westwards.

So what do you consider me, as an employee of WGL, to be?

I am not currently 'A'.
I do support local operators, it is very much my preference to work for a local company. Am I therefore 'B'? I suspect not.
I speak the truth - that may not be your definition of 'C' - common sense, but it is what is happening. Bear in mind that due to WGL's social media policy I am currently unable to elaborate or explain certain issues, however what I do write is the truth, nothing more.

I do not support a total monopoly by FirstGroup. I doubt many people here would. However, it is very easy to see why customers (the people who actually have to USE the service) would prefer another operator to come in and actually turn up according to the published timetable. That other operator does not have to be First, though they are in the best position to do so.

I want to see WGL turned around, back on the road to recovery. It could be a good operator again, it could be brought back from the brink. I only have 27 days left as an employee, so it certainly won't happen during my remaining time with the company. I only hope it happens before it's too late.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thank goodness there's someone on here who (A) isn't employed by Firstgroup, (B) supports David against Goliath and (C) speaks commonsense. If First were to get an almost total monopoly on bus and train services in Cornwall it would be a disaster for passengers and lead to huge cuts in bus services when their inflated tenders had to be rejected by a cash-strapped Cornwall Council. If W.G. can't survive, hope Stagecoach or Go-Ahead expand westwards.

There are two separate (albeit inexorably linked) issues to look at.

Firstly, you have First who have consistently failed to deliver with FDC. Wave after wave of ill considered cuts allied to a failure to invest reflected a business that had unrealistic internal ROCE hurdles and profit expectations. That is what led Mark H to set up WGL. Territory was vacated with areas such as Newquay and St Austell being ceded to WG.

That was the old mantra but in recent years, First have managed to stem those reverses in the main, regaining work around Helston and Penwith whilst winning the Truro P&R and now benefiting from Falmouth University. Nonetheless, the years of neglect have left a very old fleet of Olympians and ex London Tridents, with the only newish kit being middle aged ex Manc B7s, a few Darts and the remnants of the good stuff inherited with Truronian. They have stabilised and are turning the corner but clearly have a long way to go.

WG benefited from First's mismanagement, exploiting opportunities and developing a business that was a byword in how to operate in thin territory. However, the high standards that I had come to expect had slipped by the time I last visited at New Year. The causes are many, from losing key staff through to two fires. Also, a resurgent First and reduced BSOG/ENCTS remuneration have affected margins at a time when DDA looms large. Not only have newer vehicles gone to be replaced by tired MPDs, the condition of vehicles is markedly worse than just a couple of years before.

In truth, the gap between WG and First has narrowed. There is a lot to commend WG for but it has clearly got some issues. My wish, as an observer and sometime consumer, is that I hope WG regain their previous high standards and that First continue their improvement and begin to invest in improving the fleet profile so that the travelling public get the benefit of two good providers.

 

[Qwerty133]

I only have 27 days left as an employee, so it certainly won't happen during my remaining time with the company. I only hope it happens before it's too late.

Does this mean you'll be able to tell more after this time?

 

[fgwrich]

Unfortunately I'm none of those 3. However as as regular customer of both operators I ran out of support for western greyhound by their awful reliability.
Morning peak Newquay to Truro the bus didn't turn up more often than it turned up. How on earth can you expect genuine passengers to continue to support a company that fails to show up so frequently.

The fact you refer to firsts "inflated tenders" ruins your credibility. First tenders were considerably lower certainly not inflated for the council than many other operators, first have also gone commercial on many routes and making considerable investment in the coming month.

Your comments to me show you as an enthusiast and not a passenger who uses these services regularly and sees the real life operations.
I fall into both category's, as an enthusiast I love all the independents, as a passenger First get my vote as they are reliable and turn up when they are meant to.

There are two separate (albeit inexorably linked) issues to look at.

Firstly, you have First who have consistently failed to deliver with FDC. Wave after wave of ill considered cuts allied to a failure to invest reflected a business that had unrealistic internal ROCE hurdles and profit expectations. That is what led Mark H to set up WGL. Territory was vacated with areas such as Newquay and St Austell being ceded to WG.

That was the old mantra but in recent years, First have managed to stem those reverses in the main, regaining work around Helston and Penwith whilst winning the Truro P&R and now benefiting from Falmouth University. Nonetheless, the years of neglect have left a very old fleet of Olympians and ex London Tridents, with the only newish kit being middle aged ex Manc B7s, a few Darts and the remnants of the good stuff inherited with Truronian. They have stabilised and are turning the corner but clearly have a long way to go.

WG benefited from First's mismanagement, exploiting opportunities and developing a business that was a byword in how to operate in thin territory. However, the high standards that I had come to expect had slipped by the time I last visited at New Year. The causes are many, from losing key staff through to two fires. Also, a resurgent First and reduced BSOG/ENCTS remuneration have affected margins at a time when DDA looms large. Not only have newer vehicles gone to be replaced by tired MPDs, the condition of vehicles is markedly worse than just a couple of years before.

In truth, the gap between WG and First has narrowed. There is a lot to commend WG for but it has clearly got some issues. My wish, as an observer and sometime consumer, is that I hope WG regain their previous high standards and that First continue their improvement and begin to invest in improving the fleet profile so that the travelling public get the benefit of two good providers.

Exactly. I am actually in the neither category of all 3, however from my more recent experiences of WG I found First to be the dominant operator. Even preferring the rather mechanically tired Alex Dart to the Ex Go North Eastern MPD with ironing board seats as provided by WG. The information provided by First seems to be on the increase, whereas the Dart I had in April by WG seem to run to a different timetable to that provided and despite the two large destination indicators, didn't even have a route number taped up. I'm sorry to see an independent go downhill, indeed where I am I'm rather lucky to have the award winning Reading Buses nearby, and highly regard them & Trent Barton as the best independants going, but WG has lost it's spark and despirately needs to pick up the ball, especially at the time when First is rather rapidly overhauling itself to become a much slicker operator.

As for suggesting that GoAhead or Stagecoach come down however, as my local is Stagecoach then all I can sum them up with is with the phrase of never look a gift horse in the mouth. Despite a newer vehicle fleet than FDCs, we've actually got higher fairs for what really can only be described as a cock up of a network, we've lost a lot of our longer distance services and had local routes changed or merged with very unpopular results. Yes First has done this in other areas like First Solent for example, but they have settled down, Ours hasn't and has been changed nearly twice yearly now for the past 2 years. So Higher fares, reduced services but possibly newer vehicles? Or FDC with what I feel are averagely priced fares, mixed age fleet of vehicles but a more reliable service?

What WG Really need to do as suggested above, is to watch the moves by First, build up a reliable service again and concentrate on getting it's vehicle fleet up to scratch. Then Stick to the North of the county, with First in the south. Give the passenger a choice of operator and service, with the quality of vehicles increased to match - Which wont happen by trying to rival a fairly smart B7 or soon to FK Enviro 400 with a scruffy Solo or Dart.

 

[Goldfish62]

There are two separate (albeit inexorably linked) issues to look at.

Firstly, you have First who have consistently failed to deliver with FDC. Wave after wave of ill considered cuts allied to a failure to invest reflected a business that had unrealistic internal ROCE hurdles and profit expectations. That is what led Mark H to set up WGL. Territory was vacated with areas such as Newquay and St Austell being ceded to WG.

That was the old mantra but in recent years, First have managed to stem those reverses in the main, regaining work around Helston and Penwith whilst winning the Truro P&R and now benefiting from Falmouth University. Nonetheless, the years of neglect have left a very old fleet of Olympians and ex London Tridents, with the only newish kit being middle aged ex Manc B7s, a few Darts and the remnants of the good stuff inherited with Truronian. They have stabilised and are turning the corner but clearly have a long way to go.

WG benefited from First's mismanagement, exploiting opportunities and developing a business that was a byword in how to operate in thin territory. However, the high standards that I had come to expect had slipped by the time I last visited at New Year. The causes are many, from losing key staff through to two fires. Also, a resurgent First and reduced BSOG/ENCTS remuneration have affected margins at a time when DDA looms large. Not only have newer vehicles gone to be replaced by tired MPDs, the condition of vehicles is markedly worse than just a couple of years before.

In truth, the gap between WG and First has narrowed. There is a lot to commend WG for but it has clearly got some issues. My wish, as an observer and sometime consumer, is that I hope WG regain their previous high standards and that First continue their improvement and begin to invest in improving the fleet profile so that the travelling public get the benefit of two good providers.

You have summed up the situation superbly, while Busaholic shows his lack of knowledge of the industry and how local authority tendering works.

 

[richw]

. Nonetheless, the years of neglect have left a very old fleet of Olympians and ex London Tridents, with the only newish kit being middle aged ex Manc B7s, a few Darts and the remnants of the good stuff inherited with Truronian. They have stabilised and are turning the corner but clearly have a long way to go.

Within the next month or two, first are bringing 12 plate Enviros to Falmouth for use on 41 and 88 routes. These will be rebranded routes and a different livery in time.

 

[83G/84D]

Within the next month or two, first are bringing 12 plate Enviros to Falmouth for use on 41 and 88 routes. These will be rebranded routes and a different livery in time.

This thread seems to have gone off topic - Western Greyhound is this topic and First can be found elsewhere.

 

[richw]

This thread seems to have gone off topic - Western Greyhound is this topic and First can be found elsewhere.

Not really the discussion was comparing the fleets of the two operators. Therefore still covers the topic of western greyhound,

 

[robertclark125]

People are going on moaning about WG, but can I make an observation? It was about last year, when the depot fire occurred, that folk thought WG were finished. They're still here. Surely that's a good sign?

 

[Temple Meads]

People are going on moaning about WG, but can I make an observation? It was about last year, when the depot fire occurred, that folk thought WG were finished. They're still here. Surely that's a good sign?

I think many lesser companies would have probably been forced to cease trading in such circumstances, however one hopes WGL can now start to go on the offensive again, after keeping going through the short term aftermath of the fire.

 

[South Westerly]

Thank goodness there's someone on here who (A) isn't employed by Firstgroup, (B) supports David against Goliath and (C) speaks commonsense. If First were to get an almost total monopoly on bus and train services in Cornwall it would be a disaster for passengers and lead to huge cuts in bus services when their inflated tenders had to be rejected by a cash-strapped Cornwall Council. If W.G. can't survive, hope Stagecoach or Go-Ahead expand westwards.

Why do you even think First has any ambition to see WGL go or to have a monopoly across Cornwall. Assumptions are just that.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why do you even think First has any ambition to see WGL go or to have a monopoly across Cornwall. Assumptions are just that.

Indeed. Most of the commercial territory is in the western half of Cornwall, where First are consolidating nicely. The last thing they need is reliance on contracted services. Leave that to Summercourt Travel and the other motley independents to fight it out with WGL.

 

[South Westerly]

Indeed. Most of the commercial territory is in the western half of Cornwall, where First are consolidating nicely. The last thing they need is reliance on contracted services. Leave that to Summercourt Travel and the other motley independents to fight it out with WGL.

Exactly. First didn't even tender for the council contracts through a swathe of North or East Cornwall.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Exactly. First didn't even tender for the council contracts through a swathe of North or East Cornwall.

Mind you, their winning of journeys to Luxulyan was a bit of a surprise. In truth, they've got no presence in large chunks of Cornwall now (e.g. Liskeard) and minimal in others such as Newquay and St Austell and probably wouldn't have the capability or desire to tender

 

[83G/84D]

Not sure if it is a new arrival for Summercourt Travel or Western Greyhound however Dennis Dart SLF, W163 EAX formerly of Cardiff Bus seen at Summercourt depot today. It was still in Cardiff Bus colours.

Also seen was Optare Solo B17 PTL in a dark red colour & formerly of Premiere.
This has recently been used by Summercourt Travel on the Truro City service formerly operated by Fal River buses

The Dart mentioned has been re-registered and is now RIL 4570, not repainted though and is still in basic Cardiff Bus colours.

 

[richw]

The Dart mentioned has been re-registered and is now RIL 4570, not repainted though and is still in basic Cardiff Bus colours.

They also have W164EAX and W172EAX still in Cardiff livery. The latter is in the newer livery and looking much better to the eye.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Dart mentioned has been re-registered and is now RIL 4570, not repainted though and is still in basic Cardiff Bus colours.

Scrub that - just written in wrong thread

 

[richw]

I know its been discussed about punctuality for Western Greyhound - Today I did a Ride Cornwall and all services I used both WGL and First Kernow were spot on time arriving at destination - One WGL was 12 late leaving Truro however arrived in Newquay exact on time, despite losing more time in 2 places on route due to other road users- Someone blocked the route at Perran Sands with a Caravan.
The only delays I suffered were on the rail element with FGW - I used 3 trains- 2 of them were delayed!

 

[SWTH]

Were you travelling on the 1245 587 Truro to Newquay? Would have been vehicle 921.

 

[richw]

Were you travelling on the 1245 587 Truro to Newquay? Would have been vehicle 921.

W604PTO? if so yes. I've lost track of time!

 

[SWTH]

Ah. That would have been me then.

 

[richw]

Ah. That would have been me then.

Only bus of my day I didn't get a picture of.

Impressive driving through that narrow gap in St Agnes round the stupidly parked car, and as for the lazy **** with the caravan!

I was the passenger of similar build to yourself who got on opposite truro station with a rail issued Ride Cornwall.

 

[SWTH]

Thanks. It's just something you get used to doing, anyone could do the same.

 

[richw]

The ex London tridents have started receiving Cornish registrations now. One of them is now registered WK51CAL, SWTH any idea what the former identity was of that bus?