Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[SWTH]

Only 3 Varios are affected by the DDA deadline at the end of the year - the rest are technically coaches.

No MAN-powered vehicles in the fleet - all Solos numbered up to 933 have Mercedes OM904s and from 953 upwards they are Cummins ISB6 powered.

N/S radiator vehicles are:
Solo: 953/4/5/6/7/9/60/1/2 (9)
Trident: 482/3/6/8/95/7/8/9 (8).
17 in total.

The Solo SRs (981-987) have offside rads and Cummins ISB's.

 

[Temple Meads]

I've heard this myself. Is it a process that's easily done to convert them all to coach spec?

I'm not too sure I'm afraid, my gut feeling suggests it would be a challenge, but someone may well know better!

 

[richw]

Maybe the design fault he mentioned is putting another deck on top of the bottom one?

Certainly for the Trident that had difficulties with a low bridge at st columb a month or so ago.

I'm not too sure I'm afraid, my gut feeling suggests it would be a challenge, but someone may well know better!

The post immediately after I asked suggests it's a simple paper work process.

 

[SWTH]

VOSA have stated they will not allow alterations that allow a vehicle to get around DDA.

Physically, change the capacity to read no standing and fit with seatbelts, and that's all that's required for a bus to be reclassed as a coach.

 

[Busaholic]

Is the radiator position (design fault mentioned) affecting first and stagecoach who operate similar vehicles across the UK?

A look at the current fleet list suggests there are less buses in the fleet than required to keep to the scheduled timetable allowing for required maintanance, servicing and regulatory checks. I would estimate around 5-10 vehicles short in the fleet at present to maintain the timetable.

Why is morale so low? He blames angry customers, so why are the customers so angry?

Last Friday I was waiting for the 587 at Truro station, there was another gentleman waiting for another service, the 550 which failed to stop to pick him up. He was only going as far as Treliske so the route was duplicated by the 587, but left the gentleman waiting about 25 minutes extra.

Also timetables are seemingly positioned wherever takes their fancy. On the outbound side of the road opposite Truro station there is only a timetable for inbound services. Very useful, I ended up lending my timetable book to a fellow passenger.

I can't argue with the summer traffic point made, in St Agnes due to parking anything bigger than a solo wouldn't have got through, in Perranporth a car towing a caravan was parked completely blocking the buses getting through. Despite this though the service I was on made up time and arrived bang on time in Newquay.

I wouldn't defend bad service from whatever source, but have to point out that it was only when Western Greyhound came to operate in West Cornwall that timetables started to appear at many First stops in the area, including major ones like outside Boots in Penzance, so they did (briefly) help to up First's game.

 

[richw]

I wouldn't defend bad service from whatever source, but have to point out that it was only when Western Greyhound came to operate in West Cornwall that timetables started to appear at many First stops in the area, including major ones like outside Boots in Penzance, so they did (briefly) help to up First's game.

Without a doubt the operators need a competitor to give them a kick up the backside in many cases. Summercourt Travel (Travel-Cornwall) have now got 27 routes and growing so potential to become the next biggest operator in front of WG, so only 2 less than Western Greyhound on the summer timetable.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wouldn't defend bad service from whatever source, but have to point out that it was only when Western Greyhound came to operate in West Cornwall that timetables started to appear at many First stops in the area, including major ones like outside Boots in Penzance, so they did (briefly) help to up First's game.

I'm afraid you're incorrect on that. Timetable frames appeared in earnest in the early 90s,when Mark Howarth was MD of Western National.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm afraid you're incorrect on that. Timetable frames appeared in earnest in the early 90s,when Mark Howarth was MD of Western National.

Not at Boots in Penzance! It was only when Market Jew Street was (notionally) made one way except for buses and taxis and a 'new' bus stop with raised kerb installed by Cornwall County Council that ANY bus times were displayed. Without looking it up, I can't say whether that was shortly before Western Greyhound appeared on the local scene or not.

Interesting that Travel Cornwall have gained so many routes - they certainly give the idle observer the impression of being a 'low cost' operator much like Brookside of Relubbus two decades ago, if that's not a libellous comment. One of the downsides of such operators is that information on their services may be known to their regular users but not to others who might avail themselves of their services. I have not been able to get a Cornwall Council timetable booklet this summer from First's enquiry offices in Penzance and Truro, and was beginning to think one hadn't been produced until I contacted Cornwall Council, who told me both should have stacks of them. Now that First have their own timetable booklet I can understand them giving it prominence, but they shouldn't deny the existence of the other. Just off to Pz now to make 4th attempt!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, obtained one.

 

[richw]

I have not been able to get a Cornwall Council timetable booklet this summer from First's enquiry offices in Penzance and Truro, and was beginning to think one hadn't been produced until I contacted Cornwall Council, who told me both should have stacks of them. Now that First have their own timetable booklet I can understand them giving it prominence, but they shouldn't deny the existence of the other. Just off to Pz now to make 4th attempt!

I got my Cornwall Council bus timetable book.....From Redruth Train Station in the tourist information leaflet display.

Interesting that Travel Cornwall have gained so many routes - they certainly give the idle observer the impression of being a 'low cost' operator much like Brookside of Relubbus two decades ago, if that's not a libellous comment

I think Travel Cornwall were surprised themselves how well they did on the tender. They were given 3 weeks notice of the tender results and found themselves buying a varied mix of buses in urgent requirement, hence not getting repaints before thrown into service.

 

[Busaholic]

I got my Cornwall Council bus timetable book.....From Redruth Train Station in the tourist information leaflet display.



I think Travel Cornwall were surprised themselves how well they did on the tender. They were given 3 weeks notice of the tender results and found themselves buying a varied mix of buses in urgent requirement, hence not getting repaints before thrown into service.

Surely it should be unacceptable to the Traffic Commissioner and the whole system of Notices and Proceedings, etc, that companies are given such little notice: after all, the T.C. is supposed to have the best interests of the travelling public at heart not just be a rubber stamp. Have a feeling that the actions/inactions of different T.C.s may become a very 'live' subject in the next couple of years with the S.W. to the forefront.

Is Travel Cornwall the same as Summercourt Travel? The only time I ever considered reporting a bus driver to the police was about 5 years ago when I saw a S.T. bus with passengers, mostly schoolkids, being driven in Truro with driver clutching mobile phone to his ear, so immrdiately formed a poor view of the firm. In retrospect, I should have phoned the firm and reported the driver.

 

[richw]

Surely it should be unacceptable to the Traffic Commissioner and the whole system of Notices and Proceedings, etc, that companies are given such little notice: after all, the T.C. is supposed to have the best interests of the travelling public at heart not just be a rubber stamp. Have a feeling that the actions/inactions of different T.C.s may become a very 'live' subject in the next couple of years with the S.W. to the forefront.

Is Travel Cornwall the same as Summercourt Travel? The only time I ever considered reporting a bus driver to the police was about 5 years ago when I saw a S.T. bus with passengers, mostly schoolkids, being driven in Truro with driver clutching mobile phone to his ear, so immrdiately formed a poor view of the firm. In retrospect, I should have phoned the firm and reported the driver.

Travel Cornwall is a trading name of Summercourt Travel since their expansion. They used to only operate a couple of buses and a taxi fleet in the Summercourt and Newquay area. They now operate as far and wide as Penzance and Launceston. The short notice came down to some legal issues that I wont post publically which delayed the announcing of the tender results where Cornwall Council were carrying out an investigation against one of the operators involved in the tender process.

 

[Busaholic]

Travel Cornwall is a trading name of Summercourt Travel since their expansion. They used to only operate a couple of buses and a taxi fleet in the Summercourt and Newquay area. They now operate as far and wide as Penzance and Launceston. The short notice came down to some legal issues that I wont post publically which delayed the announcing of the tender results where Cornwall Council were carrying out an investigation against one of the operators involved in the tender process.

I'm intrigued, but won't ask you to elaborate. Any speculation I might give would probably be barking up the wrong tree, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not at Boots in Penzance! It was only when Market Jew Street was (notionally) made one way except for buses and taxis and a 'new' bus stop with raised kerb installed by Cornwall County Council that ANY bus times were displayed. Without looking it up, I can't say whether that was shortly before Western Greyhound appeared on the local scene or not.

Interesting that Travel Cornwall have gained so many routes - they certainly give the idle observer the impression of being a 'low cost' operator much like Brookside of Relubbus two decades ago, if that's not a libellous comment. One of the downsides of such operators is that information on their services may be known to their regular users but not to others who might avail themselves of their services. I have not been able to get a Cornwall Council timetable booklet this summer from First's enquiry offices in Penzance and Truro, and was beginning to think one hadn't been produced until I contacted Cornwall Council, who told me both should have stacks of them. Now that First have their own timetable booklet I can understand them giving it prominence, but they shouldn't deny the existence of the other. Just off to Pz now to make 4th attempt!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, obtained one.

As you rightly say, the stop at Boots is a relatively new one, but timetable information was displayed before WG came on the scene.

I agree regarding lack of information about many services. My parents live near Penzance and use the bus services all the time but had no idea about the existence of the 7 or 409 until I told them. It hardly encourages use of sparce rural services.

 

[Surreyman]

Yes - you amend the max loading plate on the vehicle and in it's documentation, and then take it down to VOSA for a test.

Basically just a paper exercise.

Sounds too good to be true!

Do such vehicles have to have 'coach type' seating?

Does this just apply to Mercedes Varios or could say, a step entrance Volvo B10M/Alexander PS bus type body(A la Stagecoach) bus, with what used to be called 'Dual purpose' i.e high backed seats be re-classified as a coach?

 

[richw]

Sounds too good to be true!

Do such vehicles have to have 'coach type' seating?

Does this just apply to Mercedes Varios or could say, a step entrance Volvo B10M/Alexander PS bus type body(A la Stagecoach) bus, with what used to be called 'Dual purpose' i.e high backed seats be re-classified as a coach?

Doesn't a coach have to have seat belts as well?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Co...s-Callington/story-22797749-detail/story.html

Cornwall Council has terminated Western Greyhound’s contract to run a bus service between Callington and Tavistock, following complaints from the public over its reliability.

Western Greyhound only began running the 574 and 575 bus service in May after the previous operator, DAC Coaches, went bust in March.

Plymouth Citybus had also operated the route temporarily.

Now residents face an anxious wait for a new operator to be put in place.


The council said in a statement today: “The authority has held a number of meetings with Western Greyhound to try and improve the situation but took the decision to end the contract when Western Greyhound admitted it was having problems in fulfilling the service.

“The service has now been put out to tender and a replacement operator will be put in place as quickly as possible.

“All bus services which are supported by the Council are subject to performance checks and the authority will take appropriate action when operators fail to maintain standards. “

The Cornish Guardian reported back in June that Western Greyhound’s service was under review.

 

[robertclark125]

It must be mentioned, that in this months Buses magazine, the person writing the Inside Track, praises independent operators. He singles out Midland classic for praise, and they do deserve it, indeed I am friends with the owner on Facebook, and he also mentioned western Greyhound. However, I must guess that his article was written BEFORE the problems at Western Greyhound.

Someone today told me the company was in crisis. I don't go that far - yet. but it's not a good state of affairs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It must be mentioned, that in this months Buses magazine, the person writing the Inside Track, praises independent operators. He singles out Midland classic for praise, and they do deserve it, indeed I am friends with the owner on Facebook, and he also mentioned western Greyhound. However, I must guess that his article was written BEFORE the problems at Western Greyhound.

Someone today told me the company was in crisis. I don't go that far - yet. but it's not a good state of affairs.

There are good and bad independents. Sadly, WG have encountered a series of hurdles incl that disastrous fire at Summercourt, another at Liskeard plus a cut in ENCTS remuneration. All when trying to achieve DDA compliance.

However, the signs were there two years ago just before they lost the Helston tenders. Fleet there was filthy and indicative of an operation that seemed to have overstretched itself. Perhaps losing this work will enable it to refocus a bit.

Interesting to see who now gets the work. PCB? Whilst First seem to be stabilising in Cornwall, Devon ops still seem to be a challenge.

 

[richw]

I'd also be very surprised if the insurance paid up for the arson. With a lot of insurers if arson is involved they won't pay out until a guilty verdict is reached. This doesn't look likely to happen, and probably explains the sale of newer higher value buses replaced with low value older darts.

 

[Busaholic]

Had my first sight of a 547 in Penzance area on Bank Holiday Monday; at least,assume it was, a long slowmoving queue of traffic on the A30 with a red ex-London decker at the head. Couldn't see how many (if any) passengers.

 

[richw]

Had my first sight of a 547 in Penzance area on Bank Holiday Monday; at least,assume it was, a long slowmoving queue of traffic on the A30 with a red ex-London decker at the head. Couldn't see how many (if any) passengers.

Rosevidney, Aquarius & Hayle Travel also have some ex-London deckers in red.

By all accounts its the first route to be pulled as it isn't a council tendered service, so the council cant intervene if they don't run. As for the traffic commissioner I am not sure. Its been cancelled more than it ran over the summer.

 

[Busaholic]

Rosevidney, Aquarius & Hayle Travel also have some ex-London deckers in red.

By all accounts its the first route to be pulled as it isn't a council tendered service, so the council cant intervene if they don't run. As for the traffic commissioner I am not sure. Its been cancelled more than it ran over the summer.

It was certainly at the scheduled time for the 547 and was a low-floor bus. Wasn't aware Rosevidney had an ex-Londoner in red : hope the first time I see it is not when I'm driving the other way down that delightful lane!

 

[richw]

It was certainly at the scheduled time for the 547 and was a low-floor bus. Wasn't aware Rosevidney had an ex-Londoner in red : hope the first time I see it is not when I'm driving the other way down that delightful lane!

Rosevidney have Dennis Trident ALX400 X353NNO, normally found on the Hayle(?) to Mullion School via Helston, Leedstown run. May be on loan but has been around for about 2 years. It has a Ensign bus vinyl on each side

 

[Busaholic]

Rosevidney have Dennis Trident ALX400 X353NNO, normally found on the Hayle(?) to Mullion School via Helston, Leedstown run. May be on loan but has been around for about 2 years. It has a Ensign bus vinyl on each side

Could have been that I saw, but unlikely to be out on a Bank Holiday. From the pace he was going I got the impression he was on a schedule trying to avoid the cardinal sin, particularly on a once daily route, of running early.

 

[Goldfish62]

Rosevidney, Aquarius & Hayle Travel also have some ex-London deckers in red.

By all accounts its the first route to be pulled as it isn't a council tendered service, so the council cant intervene if they don't run. As for the traffic commissioner I am not sure. Its been cancelled more than it ran over the summer.

Of course the TC can and will intervene. It's a registered local bus service. She has the power to impose a fine for any buses running more than 5 min late or 1 min early or not at all and ultimately can ban the operator from running the route.

 

[WGWheresMyBus]

Hello All

I am the guy that has set up the facebook page, "Western Greyhound, Wheres my Bus" and I have been reading your forum with Interest. It seems that you are very knowledgeable about the fleet of buses that Western Greyhound operate and how they operate.

I would be intrigued to hear of any ideas you have to help improve the service they offer before any opportunity, where VOSA or the Traffic Commissioner take further action which could see WG in Crisis.

Thanks in advance.

Jason Higgs

 

[Busaholic]

Hello All

I am the guy that has set up the facebook page, "Western Greyhound, Wheres my Bus" and I have been reading your forum with Interest. It seems that you are very knowledgeable about the fleet of buses that Western Greyhound operate and how they operate.

I would be intrigued to hear of any ideas you have to help improve the service they offer before any opportunity, where VOSA or the Traffic Commissioner take further action which could see WG in Crisis.

Thanks in advance.

Jason Higgs

If you haven't already done so, I would address a personal letter to Mark Howarth and tell him that unless the concerns you and other people on your Facebook page have can be sorted out you'll have no option but to contact the Traffic Commissioner (I am assuming you haven't already done this) and suggest a personal meeting at a time and date convenient for you.You'd be amazed what a personal letter can sometimes achieve - I once wrote to the then Devon and Cornwall Chief Constable about rowdiness in Penzance on a Saturday night and the next weekend he was to be seen patrolling the main streets with half the local constabulary in tow!

 

[richw]

Hello All

I am the guy that has set up the facebook page, "Western Greyhound, Wheres my Bus" and I have been reading your forum with Interest. It seems that you are very knowledgeable about the fleet of buses that Western Greyhound operate and how they operate.

I would be intrigued to hear of any ideas you have to help improve the service they offer before any opportunity, where VOSA or the Traffic Commissioner take further action which could see WG in Crisis.

Thanks in advance.

Jason Higgs

Welcome Jason.

Looking at the issues raising on your Facebook page - I have joined your page

Cancellations - The biggest issue is a vehicle shortage. It is common knowledge that this is the main issue causing most of the problems with cancellations and no shows that arise on your Facebook page. A communication system so passengers can be aware of live updates for cancellations would be great - A Facebook/Twitter page with running updates- At least then people wont stand at bus stops for hours waiting for a bus that isn't running.

Staff rudeness - Staff have bad morale which is the likely knock on to unhappy staff. It is fairly well known in the industry that WG pay a low rate of pay. First Kernow for example pay over a pound an hour more to their drivers. Although they exceed the minimum wage, they are paid less than the so-called living wage despite the requirements of the job and the enhanced driving courses required. Low pay contributes to stress due to worries of paying bills. One of their drivers contributes to this forum and he has previously commented on the number of hours he works to pay the bills.

Customer Engagement- Their call centre rarely answers the phone. They also don't respond to customer complaint emails. Have a small dedicated admin team to deal with these roles.

Timetable availability - People complaining on your page about buses not on time. A number of stops I've used have the wrong timetable up. Opposite Truro Station for outbound services side of the road only has a timetable for inbound services. Customers were then thinking the bus was majorly late when in fact it was only 5-10 minutes late as they were looking at the times for incoming buses.

 

[matt_splat]

I have a few ideas from observing things on facebook and online.....

first off all if they are wanting to put things right hiring some one who can deal solely with customer relations and services, running customer panels like first do to meet people and address situations and work with the public to find out what the people want and need in there local area.... you can blame the council for cuts but if you work with people you might well find they will promote the company and the service and ridership might well increase.

I think the issue with the darts they have got are the fact they are city busses and old and not designed to be doing long routes like Newquay - Padstow - Bodmin

maybe timetables also need to be adapted to factor this

 

[richw]

I think the issue with the darts they have got are the fact they are city busses and old and not designed to be doing long routes like Newquay - Padstow - Bodmin

maybe timetables also need to be adapted to factor this

The "city" Tridents are an even better example of unsuitable vehicles. especially on the long run to Exeter.

 

[matt_splat]

if the tridents had a refurbishment they wouldn't be too bad on the 510 but wont last.

maybe cutting some services back and using bigger busses could be the answer look at the 593/594/597.

the 593 could stay as it is.

the 594 goes to running from just st columb to wadebridge

the 597 drops to hourly using bigger busses such as darts

the 594 in wadebridge could then tie into a 595 service and run all the way to bude while every other hour they run as the 510 meaning there is a decent service from the camelford area into truro etc with just one change. and I would expect you could save busses.