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West Yorkshire bus franchising

Ballyheigue

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11 Sep 2025
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313
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Leeds
Fair comment, other than Clough Foot is served by the Rossendale 7, and probably at the same level as it has been in decades.



Now I'm totally baffled. As a resident of Todmorden, I've no interest in going to the Yorkshire Dales by bus, thank you.

What is needed is the restoration of the 30 minute services to Burnley and Rochdale, and if no increase in headway can be managed, a reliable 30 minute headway to Halifax, including evenings and Sundays. Restoration of the full evening service on the minibus routes might be a bonus - they finish by 2100 now.

With regard to your suggestions of ramblers routes - have you ever tried driving even a minibus over Widdop? And how is your Sowerby Bridge to Mankinholes 593 intended to be routed?


Presumably they will have their say through the West Yorkshire Combined Authority, no?
I did see a very full 595 full of student type visitors recently about a month ago one weekday afternoon, not sure if that's the norm but walking seems to be getting popular amongst the young so perhaps one improvement would be the use of bigger buses during the Summer on the 595 and 596, maybe even restore the link to Hardcastle Craggs as it's quite a boring uphill walk, partly on roads with no path, from the town centre if you're not keen on crossing all the fields lol.
 
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Whisky Papa

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I did see a very full 595 full of student type visitors recently about a month ago one weekday afternoon, not sure if that's the norm but walking seems to be getting popular amongst the young so perhaps one improvement would be the use of bigger buses during the Summer on the 595 and 596, maybe even restore the link to Hardcastle Craggs as it's quite a boring uphill walk, partly on roads with no path, from the town centre if you're not keen on crossing all the fields lol.
I'm pretty certain nothing bigger than a Solo will get round the 595 to Crimsworth, although of course the 596 did once use full-size buses as the 516 to Blackshaw Head.

Sure, I'd probably be in favour of looking to restore weekend services to Blake Dean/Widdop or Hardcastle Crags, although both could be a pain to negotiate (even with traffiic levels of thirty years ago). Care should be taken such routes would not detract from service level or reliability elsewhere on the Hebden Bridge minibus network.

However, these suggestions are a distraction from the fact that the mainline services in the Upper Calder Valley are currently barely fit for purpose, due to reduced frequency, unpredictable 'AI slop' timetables which the buses still cannot adhere to (so why bother?) and unreliability.

My wife and I have virtually given up using them, but sensibly we have chosen to live within walking distance of Todmorden town centre and station. We also no longer have a family responsibility that required my wife to travel up to Cornholme on a regular basis, which would be a major pain now.
 

adam rogan

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Liverpool
I rode the 444 Leeds to Wakefield bus and saw one single bus stop on the Stanley estate in Wakefield with the Weaver Network branding. Have such changes started to appear everywhere because all the other stops I saw had the old pink Metro Brand.
 

NorthernSpirit

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What is needed is the restoration of the 30 minute services to Burnley and Rochdale, and if no increase in headway can be managed, a reliable 30 minute headway to Halifax, including evenings and Sundays. Restoration of the full evening service on the minibus routes might be a bonus - they finish by 2100 now.
In regards to the minibus routes - an improvemment to the 900/901/902 services should be, revert back to hourly and have a completely revised timetable to enable addtional peak hour journeys in either direction (a 0610, 0710 and an 0810 from Huddersfield and an 0710, 0810, 0910 and 1830 from Hebden Bridge wouldn't go amiss) with the 901A journey's being revised to run after 7pm.

Then on Sunday's (and I have used it on a Sunday), four journey's could operate across the full route (these could depart from Huddersfield at 0900, 1100, 1400 and 1600 / Hebden Bridge at 1000, 1200, 1500 and 1700) with the 901A journey's commencing one journey from Cragg Vale at around 0850 to Hebden and after 6pm from Hebden. The gap at 1pm would be to facilitate a drivers break.

With regard to your suggestions of ramblers routes - have you ever tried driving even a minibus over Widdop? And how is your Sowerby Bridge to Mankinholes 593 intended to be routed?
I've once driven a van that way, thought I'd grounded the thing at Blake Dean luckily I didn't. If a rambler route was to be reinstated that way than a 16 seater would be the largest it'd take, even if it didn't go to the Yorkshire Dales and instead went to the Forest of Bowland I still think people would use it. When the 906 ran I did know of one person who went walking around Boulsworth Hill in September / October time, since the bus service was scrapped a lot of their walks that way were curtailed.

As for my idea of a new 593, a new 593 could be routed as per the current 579 to Sowerby Bridge, up Tuel Lane, left at the top of the hill as per the current 590/591/592 route along the A646 to the junction for Mankinholes then as per the section of T6/T8 avoiding Walsden to Todmorden bus station. End to end would take around hour. Unless it was extended to Rawtenstall for the East Lancs Railway, provided that they was enough demand to justify running such a service that way.

Presumably they will have their say through the West Yorkshire Combined Authority, no?
Could be done though them but I once managed to get Wakefield Council to see if a nightbus could be laid on across four routes (of which one was actually introduced, the N10) as I believed that it was more of a local issue than a countywide one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I did see a very full 595 full of student type visitors recently about a month ago one weekday afternoon, not sure if that's the norm but walking seems to be getting popular amongst the young so perhaps one improvement would be the use of bigger buses during the Summer on the 595 and 596, maybe even restore the link to Hardcastle Craggs as it's quite a boring uphill walk, partly on roads with no path, from the town centre if you're not keen on crossing all the fields lol.
You wouldn't be able to fit anything bigger than a 16 seater Merc to Midgehole and even then there's parked cars at the junction of Keighley Road / Midgehole Road, Midgehole cottages itself (clogged with these oversized monstrosities called an SUV / 4x4 that take up all the road space) and the lack of a proper turning cirlce at the bottom end of Hardcastle Crags even further restricting getting a bus down there.

You'd have more of a chance if a bus (again a 16 seater as nothing bigger would really fit and a Solo would be pushing it depise being used previously) was sent via Cloughhole car park (named as "Widdop Road NTCP" on the old 906 timetable timing point) as you'd be much closer to Gibson Mill. Hence the idea of sending something from Todmorden to the Yorkshire Dales or Forest of Bowland as spining it at Widdop would stifle a route that could be full of potential if it went further.
 
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tomoufc

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12 Dec 2014
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How does franchising improve reliability over the current tendered operation? The timetables are still dictated by the West Yorkshire Metro and the traffic doesn't suddenly disappear under franchising. Roadworks don't just stop because of the franchising either. You can't just change the operator and somehow it all becomes more reliable. The only ways to improve the reliability is to put more buses into the network, which will sky rocket the costs (as franchised buses tend to cost more per vehicle anyway, and you are adding another bus into the cycle to make them ultra reliable, but very inefficient).
That’s a good question. All I know for sure is that it has in Greater Manchester. It may be that it creates forms of oversight for the franchising authority that didn’t exist previously.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

How much has reliability improved in GM. I’m still not sure I’m convinced that the organisation who cannot manage the Todmorden contract will be any better at managing a Todmorden franchise.
This is easily Googleable
 

Whisky Papa

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In regards to the minibus routes - an improvemment to the 900/901/902 services should be, revert back to hourly and have a completely revised timetable to enable addtional peak hour journeys in either direction (a 0610, 0710 and an 0810 from Huddersfield and an 0710, 0810, 0910 and 1830 from Hebden Bridge wouldn't go amiss) with the 901A journey's being revised to run after 7pm.

Then on Sunday's (and I have used it on a Sunday), four journey's could operate across the full route (these could depart from Huddersfield at 0900, 1100, 1400 and 1600 / Hebden Bridge at 1000, 1200, 1500 and 1700) with the 901A journey's commencing one journey from Cragg Vale at around 0850 to Hebden and after 6pm from Hebden. The gap at 1pm would be to facilitate a drivers break.

Yep, a better service up Cragg Vale would definitely be a plus.

Regarding Widdop:

I've once driven a van that way, thought I'd grounded the thing at Blake Dean luckily I didn't. If a rambler route was to be reinstated that way than a 16 seater would be the largest it'd take, even if it didn't go to the Yorkshire Dales and instead went to the Forest of Bowland I still think people would use it. When the 906 ran I did know of one person who went walking around Boulsworth Hill in September / October time, since the bus service was scrapped a lot of their walks that way were curtailed.

When the Rural Bus Grant service enhancements were added in 1997(?) an additional minibus was allocated to Hebden Bridge on Sundays, amongst its additional journeys, it ran to as H2 to Blake Dean every two hours. It was eventually abandoned due to repeated instances of it getting gridlocked with non-local drivers being unable to pass it (Mercedes 709 at the time) and missing its next journeys on other routes. It had certainly gone by the time I returned to driving these routes in summer 2001, running hourly to Blackshaw Head instead, a much better use of resources for the local population.

Hikers buses to Widdop (and also for Hardcastle Crags) as you describe are perhaps possible, but this is not really the issue for locals. Obviously anything crossing into Lancashire will bring further administrative complications under franchising too!

As for my idea of a new 593, a new 593 could be routed as per the current 579 to Sowerby Bridge, up Tuel Lane, left at the top of the hill as per the current 590/591/592 route along the A646 to the junction for Mankinholes then as per the section of T6/T8 avoiding Walsden to Todmorden bus station. End to end would take around hour. Unless it was extended to Rawtenstall for the East Lancs Railway, provided that they was enough demand to justify running such a service that way.

A through service to the Upper Valley via Tuel Lane may have some justification, although for many it may be possible to use the train from Sowerby Bridge to, say Todmorden.

However I'm afraid I'm lost as to your route via Mankinholes as described - how are you prpoposing to avoid Walsden exactly? Personally I can't see much demand given the limited population of Lumbutts etc, plus the relative reliability of their current T6/8 would be very much put in jeopardy; seeing moost buses on the 590/1/2 currently seem to be able to escape Halifax remotely on time, I doubt the 593 would be much better!
 

Ballyheigue

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As a side note, about 20 years ago I used to use the road from the bus stop at Slack up to Widdop as a test of my endurance/fitness, if I could get to Widdop in an hour, I was still fit lol. As another side note, when the last ever bus ran up that way (it was some time in October a few years back on a day when the clocks went back) I made my way over from Haworth on foot intending to catch the very last run to Hebden Bridge at Widdop. The dam thing never turned up! I ended up walking it to Slack (partly in the dark) and getting the bus from there, it's a very dangerous road to walk on in the dark I can tell you.
 

tomoufc

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12 Dec 2014
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As a side note, about 20 years ago I used to use the road from the bus stop at Slack up to Widdop as a test of my endurance/fitness, if I could get to Widdop in an hour, I was still fit lol. As another side note, when the last ever bus ran up that way (it was some time in October a few years back on a day when the clocks went back) I made my way over from Haworth on foot intending to catch the very last run to Hebden Bridge at Widdop. The dam thing never turned up! I ended up walking it to Slack (partly in the dark) and getting the bus from there, it's a very dangerous road to walk on in the dark I can tell you.

Not sure if it would have been applicable in this case, but this initiative is good if you’re using one of the major operators. Hopefully it continues into franchising: https://www.wymetro.com/contact-us/...i-refunds-for-bus-journeys-in-west-yorkshire/
 

TUC

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We came out of our house today to find temporary traffic lights and barriers set up at the bottom of the road for what turned out to be a new bus shelter getting installed. The problem is, we already had a bus shelter in decent condition and the new one doesn’t seem to have anything the old one didn’t have, except it is in Weaver colours. I’m left wondering why WYCA is spending money replacing perfectly serviceable bus shelters instead of placing them at bus stops which don’t have one?
 

tomoufc

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12 Dec 2014
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358
We came out of our house today to find temporary traffic lights and barriers set up at the bottom of the road for what turned out to be a new bus shelter getting installed. The problem is, we already had a bus shelter in decent condition and the new one doesn’t seem to have anything the old one didn’t have, except it is in Weaver colours. I’m left wondering why WYCA is spending money replacing perfectly serviceable bus shelters instead of placing them at bus stops which don’t have one?
It would be interesting to know, if would like to ask them? Looks like you can ask them here, where it gives details of the rationale for selecting shelters to be replaced: https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/bsship?tool=qanda
 

Kieran1990

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When will the first franchise awards be annocuned

I know West Leeds fulls under the first phase but exactly what routes/ depots etc?
 

MotCO

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Today. The only issue is that companies can moan to the authority and continuously delay the award.
Are they announced to the general public today, or to the bidders? Typically there is a two-week window for any objections to be raised, so this is done out of the public eye.
 

mattb7tl

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Are they announced to the general public today, or to the bidders? Typically there is a two-week window for any objections to be raised, so this is done out of the public eye.
Contract decision was due on 23/07/2026. The award date (going based on final call in date which was approved) was on 03/08/2026. The minimum standstill period is eight days so it is imminent from tomorrow. A day off, apologies.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Today. The only issue is that companies can moan to the authority and continuously delay the award.
Here - let me fix that for you.

Companies can only raise legitimate objections to the tender process if they believe that the process as detailed has not been followed. It does happen, most famously with Virgin successfully objecting to the West Coast award to First Group, but not that often.

It shouldn't derail the award process and there is precedent of accepting that process wasn't followed yet the award being confirmed. When the NHS awarded their logistics contract to GXO, other bidders successfully argued that their cases should be heard. However, it didn't bar GXO from being awarded the contract and it remains in legal process to see if the other parties will be awarded any damages.
 

Leedsbusman

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Are they announced to the general public today, or to the bidders? Typically there is a two-week window for any objections to be raised, so this is done out of the public eye.
No, under the current law the standstill is after the contract award is published. Is eight working days. The suggestion it’s today or tomorrow is based on it being ten days since the poster thought operators were told. I think we can assume it’s been delayed for reasons other than operators objections.
 

mattb7tl

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No, under the current law the standstill is after the contract award is published. Is eight working days. The suggestion it’s today or tomorrow is based on it being ten days since the poster thought operators were told. I think we can assume it’s been delayed for reasons other than operators objections.
Based on this issue.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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No, under the current law the standstill is after the contract award is published. Is eight working days. The suggestion it’s today or tomorrow is based on it being ten days since the poster thought operators were told. I think we can assume it’s been delayed for reasons other than operators objections.
Indeed - in my experience, the delays are usually internal governance NOT anyone raising an objection.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Taken from a post on Facebook by leeds councillor Simon Seary

"A major planning application has been submitted for a new bus depot on Varley Street, off Richardshaw Lane in Pudsey.

The application proposes changing the use of the vacant 3.5-hectare site, which many residents will know as the former Jewson Builders’ Merchants site, into a bus depot.

Although the site had previously been identified for potential housing, it is surrounded by and close to existing industrial and employment uses. I therefore think there are clear benefits in seeing this vacant site brought back into productive employment use.

Go-Ahead Group is currently bidding for local bus service contracts as part of the forthcoming West Yorkshire bus franchising programme. If successful, the proposed depot would provide a base for its local bus operations.

At this stage, the application is for the change of use of the site only, with no physical development or operational infrastructure included within this particular application.

The planning application reference is 26/04248/FU and the full details are now available through Leeds City Council’s Public Access planning system.

https://publicaccess.leeds.gov.uk/o...ils.do?activeTab=details&keyVal=TIXADDJBGZ500"
Posted on the East Yorkshire thread but an interesting development...
 
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Kaliwax

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If Go Ahead win all the B and C tier contracts, contracts that have the best chance of small independents bidding for.

I think a lot of smaller operators will be in huge trouble if they lose their school contracts to Go Ahead because of franchising.

Why put a planning application in to build a depot, if you aren't going to win?

No wonder Squarepeg was protesting outside of the WYCA, I think that's the reason why they protested.
 

Ballyheigue

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If Go Ahead win all the B and C tier contracts, contracts that have the best chance of small independents bidding for.

I think a lot of smaller operators will be in huge trouble if they lose their school contracts to Go Ahead because of franchising.

Why put a planning application in to build a depot, if you aren't going to win?

No wonder Squarepeg was protesting outside of the WYCA, I think that's the reason why they protested.
I think it's too obvious now WYCA have given the smaller contracts to a so called smaller firm (small in West Yorkshire but not so small elsewhere that is) so if I were Squarepeg, I'd be throwing the towel in now before the drivers throw in the towel.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I rode the 444 Leeds to Wakefield bus and saw one single bus stop on the Stanley estate in Wakefield with the Weaver Network branding. Have such changes started to appear everywhere because all the other stops I saw had the old pink Metro Brand.
I've seen a few dotted about. Star Garage in Shelley (towards Huddersfield) on the B6116 (served by what is currently the Team Pennine Denby Darts D1 service from Huddersfield to Denby Dale) has had a green Weaver Network flag for a few weeks now. AIUI Huddersfield area is among the first to be contracted out, so perhaps we'll see the pace quicken in the coming weeks?
 

MotCO

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Why not? It's a lot cheaper than building it and no one forces you to do it. And if you do need it, you've saved some time.
Can you put in a speculative planning application if you don't own the property? Or has Go Ahead bought the site already, even though the tenders have not been formally announced?
 

Deerfold

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Can you put in a speculative planning application if you don't own the property? Or has Go Ahead bought the site already, even though the tenders have not been formally announced?
You don't have to own a property to put in a planning application.
 
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Andyh82

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Looking at the application, they are only applying for a change of use. Existing buildings will be used as engineering workshops and the like.

In a similar way that Denton in Manchester is well located near the M60, this location being just off the Stanningley Bypass could serve any tenders won in Leeds or Bradford
 

Deerfold

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True but you either have to own it (so an interesting speculative purchase) or more likely, you've taken out a lease on it. Let's face it... they've done it for a reason ;)
I've corrected my typo.

You don't need to own land to submit a planning application.


You don't actually need to own land to apply for planning permission for it. This means you can apply for permission before deciding whether or not to buy a piece of land.

The following people must be informed about a planning application relating to land or buildings they have an interest in:

The owner or all the part-owner/s (if you are not the full owner)
Any leaseholders with at least seven years' lease remaining
Any agricultural tenants.
 

YorkRailFan

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Looking at the application, they are only applying for a change of use. Existing buildings will be used as engineering workshops and the like.

In a similar way that Denton in Manchester is well located near the M60, this location being just off the Stanningley Bypass could serve any tenders won in Leeds or Bradford
That would make a lot of sense for Go Ahead to acquire engineering workshops, etc. Currently, Fourways (who operate all Go Ahead West Yorkshire services except the X98/X99) have to send buses to Hull for maintenance. If Go Ahead are going to expand in West Yorkshire with franchising (which is likely), they're going to want their own maintenance facility and not have to cycle buses through East Yorkshire's Hull depot on Anlaby Road.
 

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