West Lothian buses

[Train368]

What an odd example. I don't really agree that the X18 being extended is evidence of them listening to passengers given how lack lustre the rest of the network is, but rather perhaps them showing a tiny ounce of common sense while trying to expand their market coverage. The X18 going to Fauldhouse would be pointless the X17 covers the Broxburn market, while the 26 covers the bulk of West Lothian and the train covers the Edinburgh market.

I also don't agree the 21 being taken out of Fauldhouse was a stupid thing given the link is still covered by the 26. Keep in mind First's 2018 changes were an attempt to reduce the number of Edinburgh routes in direct competition with the train. What's the point in having a slow bus from Fauldhouse to Edinburgh when the train covers this market. It's far more logical to have a route that stays within West Lothian and then offer connections from Livingston Town Centre.

As mentioned above already the only real flaw i see in the First network is the 22 not going in to Edinburgh and the extension of the 600 to Whitburn.

The EX1 would've been far better operating to Broxburn/Whitburn rather than Bathgate, it might've actually made an impact that way. I just don't see the point for yet another Edinburgh-Bathgate bus route. It irritates me as you see all the positive moves Lothian make within the city and East Lothian network - and yet here they are making a pigs **** of West Lothian.

If you look on Lothian Country's Facebook page lots of people suggested the X18 be extended to Whitburn due to people in Armadale wanting a better link to Tippethill hospital and to Whitburn for getting to work. The Number 6 I was aware off but it's more difficult sell since it's a town service bus and doesn't go direct to Whitburn. It's the same with Fauldhouse, you see comments quiet a lot with folk suggesting a link between Armadale and Fauldhouse again with the X18, but this is just from Facebook and I'm not sure of the wider demand out from that.

Either way it is a total mess at the moment. I was all for Lothian but have to admit since they introduced the Green Arrow services I'm a bit confused what their actually looking to archive. It's obvious the Green Arrow isn't going to get full coaches running but you'd think that's what they would want with this very expensive investment?

 

[Scott mac]

It lcb are losing a lot off money as people say surely they would have changed stuff buy now?

 

[Jordan Adam]

It lcb are losing a lot off money as people say surely they would have changed stuff buy now?

Given they would be expecting to loose money probably not. The bigger worry i have for their losses is how it could affect the Lothian Buses & East Coast Buses operations in the future.

 

[Journeyman]

Given they would be expecting to loose money probably not. The bigger worry i have for their losses is how it could affect the Lothian Buses & East Coast Buses operations in the future.

I doubt it'll have much impact. If LCB proves to be a dead duck, they'll cut and run before it damages the core network.

 

[Journeyman]

Reading some of the messages here, it does seem that there's some tribalism on display, almost like picking a football team. Do bus enthusiasts all pick one of the big operators, which they then feel they have to defend to the hilt, while slagging off all others?

 

[livi man]

Looks like first got off to a start with there Edinburgh tours money of Lothian ha ha

 

[DunsBus]

I said on here last autumn that LCB would struggle in West Lothian. I was promptly slapped down. Now it's emerging that LCB isn't just struggling out there, but running at a huge loss as well.

I hate to say that "I told you so", but....!

 

[CM]

Reading some of the messages here, it does seem that there's some tribalism on display, almost like picking a football team. Do bus enthusiasts all pick one of the big operators, which they then feel they have to defend to the hilt, while slagging off all others?

You'll also get some enthusiasts who will religously follow one operator and point blank even refuse to mention another operator by name, it's so petulant it's actually quite amusing!

 

[Journeyman]

Looks like first got off to a start with there Edinburgh tours money of Lothian ha ha

I doubt they have Lothian quaking in their boots just yet. The market for tours in Edinburgh is huge.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I doubt it'll have much impact. If LCB proves to be a dead duck, they'll cut and run before it damages the core network.

I'd agree to an extent, but we still don't know that for sure until it actually happens.

You'll also get some enthusiasts who will religously follow one operator and point blank even refuse to mention another operator by name, it's so petulant it's actually quite amusing!

I know exactly who you're on about, said person isn't a member on here as far as i know. I won't name them for obvious reasons.

I doubt they have Lothian quaking in their boots just yet. The market for tours in Edinburgh is huge.

Honestly there's room for both, however the tours are a huge revenue earner for Lothian. And another tour operator could see the revenue decline slightly, which is exactly what First's aim is. After all every passenger first get is another one lost for Lothian.

 

[Train368]

Maybe Lothian should start to try routes that have never been done before, any suggestions? I've noted one of mine below but it would be really interesting what everyone's thoughts on new routes could be.

EX3: The idea would be a Livingston Centre express coming from Whitburn via Armadale, Bathgate then non-stop to the centre from Bathgate fire station. Focus would be on leisure rather than workers.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Maybe Lothian should start to try routes that have never been done before, any suggestions? I've noted one of mine below but it would be really interesting what everyone's thoughts on new routes could be.

EX3: The idea would be a Livingston Centre express coming from Whitburn via Armadale, Bathgate then non-stop to the centre from Bathgate fire station. Focus would be on leisure rather than workers.

I think i mentioned above but Edinburgh - Broxburn or M8 - Boghall - Blackburn - Whitburn.

 

[route101]

You'll also get some enthusiasts who will religously follow one operator and point blank even refuse to mention another operator by name, it's so petulant it's actually quite amusing!

Yeah , theres a guy who posts photos and never mentions the other operator by its name , its first , takes pictures of only the other operator in the Edinburgh area .

I suppose you get people with aspbergic obsessions , sometimes with bus numbers

 

[Train368]

I think i mentioned above but Edinburgh - Broxburn or M8 - Boghall - Blackburn - Whitburn.

That's a good suggestion with Blackburn, would make more sense than Armadale with Blackburn having no direct rail link!

 

[ScotRail158725]

I think i mentioned above but Edinburgh - Broxburn or M8 - Boghall - Blackburn - Whitburn.

Actually a great idea that, it wouldnt be a fulk and standing decker rout but it would definatley have more that 6 people most on and could defiantely be popular

 

[Jordan Adam]

Actually a great idea that, it wouldnt be a fulk and standing decker rout but it would definatley have more that 6 people most on and could defiantely be popular

The logic behind that idea is the fact those areas are not near the railway. There's no point at all having an Express bus service in to Edinburgh on a route covered by Scotrail.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The logic behind that idea is the fact those areas are not near the railway. There's no point at all having an Express bus service in to Edinburgh on a route covered by Scotrail.

thats exactly what id be hoping for them to do, a direct route into edinburgh from un-train served towns

 

[Journeyman]

The logic behind that idea is the fact those areas are not near the railway. There's no point at all having an Express bus service in to Edinburgh on a route covered by Scotrail.

I think the obvious traffic magnet Lothian are going for with the EX1 and 2 is RBS at Gogarburn. You can't easily get there by train, and the existing First bus routes take twice as long as the new services.

 

[Train368]

The logic behind that idea is the fact those areas are not near the railway. There's no point at all having an Express bus service in to Edinburgh on a route covered by Scotrail.

Do you think a X14 type of service would work? Maybe Edinburgh-Glasgow via M8, Boghall, Blackburn, Whitburn then either via M8 again or Harthill to Glasgow? Would be a huge risk but conserdering Lothian have nice looking coaches maybe it'd make more sense having them on a longer route between the 2 main cities. Whitburn would obviously be the main target with no rail link in Whitburn.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think the obvious traffic magnet Lothian are going for with the EX1 and 2 is RBS at Gogarburn. You can't easily get there by train, and the existing First bus routes take twice as long as the new services.

Likely, but even then that's a smaller percentage of the population.

Do you think a X14 type of service would work? Maybe Edinburgh-Glasgow via M8, Boghall, Blackburn, Whitburn then either via M8 again or Harthill to Glasgow? Would be a huge risk but conserdering Lothian have nice looking coaches maybe it'd make more sense having them on a longer route between the 2 main cities. Whitburn would obviously be the main target with no rail link in Whitburn.

I wouldn't totally say no, but i doubt the demand is high. Keep in mind the longer a persons journey is, the more likely they are to get a bus to the nearest train station and jump on the train. The old X14 was more really a shoppers service and i doubt there is demand for it now.

Perhaps a Edinburgh - M8 - Craigshill - Livingston Centre - St John's - Blackburn - Whitburn - Harthill - M8 - Glasgow route could work, but i'm unsure. Also at an operational perspective it would likely be problematic for Lothian. Again i think from Bathgate/Armadale passengers for Glasgow would be more likely to walk/bus it to the train station and then jump on a train rather than take the slower bus all the way.

 

[livi man]

The x18 covers RBS gogar just as quick at peak times

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Perhaps a Edinburgh - M8 - Craigshill - Livingston Centre - St John's - Blackburn - Whitburn - Harthill - M8 - Glasgow route could work, but i'm unsure.

I would suspect is worth a shot. It would not be the best option for those going between Glasgow and Edinburgh as 900 is faster however it would be worth a shot

Do you think a X14 type of service would work? Maybe Edinburgh-Glasgow via M8, Boghall, Blackburn, Whitburn then either via M8 again or Harthill to Glasgow? Would be a huge risk but conserdering Lothian have nice looking coaches maybe it'd make more sense having them on a longer route between the 2 main cities. Whitburn would obviously be the main target with no rail link in Whitburn.

I am not convinced of the EX1 route personally, however Whitburn is a critical step. I also wonder with LCB working in partnership with Citylink, if this might be either an issue with them, or something they'd support and if Citylink were onboard, then it could be good. 900 would be faster for Edin - Glasgow direct however but EX3 or something between both cities connecting key communities along the way might just work.

Talking of Citylink being in partnership with LCB, it makes me wonder if there might be any scope for a single ticket but to be used on both services, ie 909 Stirling to Edinburgh and Edinburgh to St Johns for example. I know that probably won't happen but I wonder if there would be mutual interest in something like that given this partnership.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I would suspect is worth a shot. It would not be the best option for those going between Glasgow and Edinburgh as 900 is faster however it would be worth a shot

As i say, i'm less sure on the idea. My thought was more for West Lothian - Edinburgh/Glasgow passengers rather the Edinburgh - Glasgow. Perhaps you could split it in to two routes. Edinburgh - Whitburn & Livingston - Glasgow, this would improve punctuality and perhaps make it more viable. But we need to keep in mind the X51 exists and it's probably not that hard for Stagecoach to increase it to half hourly to protect their revenue.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

As i say, i'm less sure on the idea. My thought was more for West Lothian - Edinburgh/Glasgow passengers rather the Edinburgh - Glasgow. Perhaps you could split it in to two routes. Edinburgh - Whitburn & Livingston - Glasgow, this would improve punctuality and perhaps make it more viable. But we need to keep in mind the X51 exists and it's probably not that hard for Stagecoach to increase it to half hourly to protect their revenue.

What has suprised me more is why Lothian (or LCB) have not done surveys within those areas to find out what the travelling public want. Maybe they need to go on a little road show, and ask the public, what bus route, if any, would make you want to use it. It might just save LCB from throwing a dart in to the board sometimes as I think that is how they got some ideas tbh. Re the X51, I don't know for sure how it all works as such but with Citylink being owned by Comfort and Stagecoach, maybe this is one that would not be as big of a problem as if it were owned by another company?

 

[overthewater]

Tickets are interchangeable between X51 and Citylink 900 late night journeys which stop at Deers Park.

 

[Jordan Adam]

What has suprised me more is why Lothian (or LCB) have not done surveys within those areas to find out what the travelling public want. Maybe they need to go on a little road show, and ask the public, what bus route, if any, would make you want to use it. It might just save LCB from throwing a dart in to the board sometimes as I think that is how they got some ideas tbh. Re the X51, I don't know for sure how it all works as such but with Citylink being owned by Comfort and Stagecoach, maybe this is one that would not be as big of a problem as if it were owned by another company?

Based on what the people inside LCB i know have told me, any ideas drivers are giving to management are just falling on deaf ears and they remain persistent on sticking with the routes they currently have. Routes which as most of us know simply do not work.

I'm not sure if Stagecoach and Citylink would want Lothian competing with them. I'm no expert but wouldn't some form of partnership on that scale risk clashing with the CMA? Certainly it would seem unfair competition to me having 3 companies fighting together against 1.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Tickets are interchangeable between X51 and Citylink 900 late night journeys which stop at Deers Park.

Do you know why they don't do this during the day too?

Based on what the people inside LCB i know have told me, any ideas drivers are giving to management are just falling on deaf ears and they remain persistent on sticking with the routes they currently have. Routes which as most of us know simply do not work.

I'm not sure if Stagecoach and Citylink would want Lothian competing with them. I'm no expert but wouldn't some form of partnership on that scale risk clashing with the CMA? Certainly it would seem unfair competition to me having 3 companies fighting together against 1.

I am not shocked re the deaf ears part. Surely though, given the drivers actually see things happening, that they should be listened to over someone who is sitting in an office looking at a computer? Guess not though. Drivers are below that paygrade... head in sand.

CMA could but if the route is selected carefully, enough that another company could not complain, but good enough that it is profitable to run, then I don't see how there could be a problem. It's not my area though so I am not sure but I know it can become real messy, real fast.

 

[In Focus]

Maybe Lothian should start to try routes that have never been done before, any suggestions? I've noted one of mine below but it would be really interesting what everyone's thoughts on new routes could be.

EX3: The idea would be a Livingston Centre express coming from Whitburn via Armadale, Bathgate then non-stop to the centre from Bathgate fire station. Focus would be on leisure rather than workers.

Yes here's an idea bus direct from edinburgh to Livingston then A899, Bathgate, Armadale and Whitburn and right through to M + D at Strathclyde park only theme park in the area and 30 mins along from West Lothian and it's almost impossible by public transport at moment (obviously seasonal) !

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Yes here's an idea bus direct from edinburgh to Livingston then A899, Bathgate, Armadale and Whitburn and right through to M + D at Strathclyde park only theme park in the area and 30 mins along from West Lothian and it's almost impossible by public transport at moment (obviously seasonal) !

Add Harthill in to that and I think it would be a good option. You're right about it being nire impossible to get to by public transport too.

 

[alangla]

I think the obvious traffic magnet Lothian are going for with the EX1 and 2 is RBS at Gogarburn. You can't easily get there by train, and the existing First bus routes take twice as long as the new services.

It’s not that tricky- RBS have, or had, a bus that circulates round between Gogarburn, their offices at the Gyle, Edinburgh Park and Edinburgh Gateway stations. There is, obviously the faff of changing mode & getting the times to line up but from what I’ve seen, plenty do it.