West Lothian buses

[Stopper]

Surprised at the negative comments about the EX2 to be honest. I can’t say I’m an expert on the whole bus/coach scene in Scotland, I’m far from it. Of the people I’ve spoken to in Linlithgow, the general perception is that it will be very useful and a success. The 38 is a dreadful, uncomfortable and unreliable bus, which has had it’s frequency towards Edinburgh halved anyway. Unless you are travelling towards a nearby village like Winchburgh or Bridgend, it’s avoided like the plague.

Yes, the rail frequency in Linlithgow is good, but in the last year the service has been shambolic. The unreliability of trains, the constant fare increasing and the bizarre timetable changes have left many walking away from ScotRail, whose reputation in these parts is at it’s lowest ever. The likes of Linlithgow Bridge and Springfield can be a bit out of the way of the train station anyway. It’s probably as a good a time as ever for it to start. I’ll certainly give it a try.

 

[Edirim]

I contraflow commute along the a8 on the final stretch of my commute and I can honestly say I've seen five times more folk on each bright bus tour than I've seen on each green arrow...it's clear who's winning that one. Lothian are just being daft when it comes to wl. It's embarrassing and now they're letting down lothian itself. Poor new information at bus stops and no orbital routes along the bypass...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I contraflow commute along the a8 on the final stretch of my commute and I can honestly say I've seen five times more folk on each bright bus tour than I've seen on each green arrow...it's clear who's winning that one. Lothian are just being daft when it comes to wl. It's embarrassing and now they're letting down lothian itself. Poor new information at bus stops and no orbital routes along the bypass...

TBH this has been a problem for more than a couple of years now. As for A720, during rush hour, it's a carpark, so unless they can get the hard shoulder in to a bus lane combo HS, then I can't see them using it although it would be a good way to get to the other side fast.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Surprised at the negative comments about the EX2 to be honest. I can’t say I’m an expert on the whole bus/coach scene in Scotland, I’m far from it. Of the people I’ve spoken to in Linlithgow, the general perception is that it will be very useful and a success. The 38 is a dreadful, uncomfortable and unreliable bus, which has had it’s frequency towards Edinburgh halved anyway. Unless you are travelling towards a nearby village like Winchburgh or Bridgend, it’s avoided like the plague.

Yes, the rail frequency in Linlithgow is good, but in the last year the service has been shambolic. The unreliability of trains, the constant fare increasing and the bizarre timetable changes have left many walking away from ScotRail, whose reputation in these parts is at it’s lowest ever. The likes of Linlithgow Bridge and Springfield can be a bit out of the way of the train station anyway. It’s probably as a good a time as ever for it to start. I’ll certainly give it a try.

The 38 had it's frequency restored at the start of the year. The issue with the EX2 is the fact it's not going to be viable in it's current format, it never will.

 

[DunsBus]

The West Lothian network as a whole just isn't viable. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact.

 

[overthewater]

Do you know why they don't do this during the day too?.

Because the 900 only goes in after 11pm until 5am.

Surprised at the negative comments about the EX2 to be honest. I can’t say I’m an expert on the whole bus/coach scene in Scotland, I’m far from it. Of the people I’ve spoken to in Linlithgow, the general perception is that it will be very useful and a success. The 38 is a dreadful, uncomfortable and unreliable bus, which has had it’s frequency towards Edinburgh halved anyway. Unless you are travelling towards a nearby village like Winchburgh or Bridgend, it’s avoided like the plague.

Yes, the rail frequency in Linlithgow is good, but in the last year the service has been shambolic. The unreliability of trains, the constant fare increasing and the bizarre timetable changes have left many walking away from ScotRail, whose reputation in these parts is at it’s lowest ever. The likes of Linlithgow Bridge and Springfield can be a bit out of the way of the train station anyway. It’s probably as a good a time as ever for it to start. I’ll certainly give it a try.

Ex1 isn't worth the effort, it doesn't save you much time if your coming from Wester inch... ou have to get up to main road etc. Your right Ex2 is the route that has more change to work BUT the fares are still overpriced ( a major cut would help ), however it could have been well used within Lithlingow IF it has used single deckers, instead of coaches and could have replaced the Town service in these parts.. Lothian misjudge itself again... it needs alot of work. Your a few months out since the 38 is now back to every 15mins To Edinburgh.

Ah yes the train with is staff shortages, which have been going on for six whole months, could will be the reason why Lothian has rolled the dice however its need to try harder..

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1-000-trains-cancelled-due-to-scotrail-staff-shortages-fdjd8gvcv

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47121901

Staff shortages have caused the cancellation of thousands of ScotRail services since April last year, new figures have revealed.The scale of disruption caused by staff being trained how to operate new trains saw an average of 46 services a day axed towards the end of 2018. A total of 2,691 ScotRail services were cancelled due to a lack of staff between April 2018 and 16 January 2019.

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/...-edinburgh-and-dundee-due-to-staff-shortages//

Scotrail has cancelled 23 train services, including five between Edinburgh and Dundee, due to staff shortages.

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/scotrail-number-trains-cancelled-due-16499966

Scotrail: number of trains cancelled due to overhead wire damage and staff shortages Meanwhile, several services between Glasgow and Edinburgh have also been cancelled throughout rush hour due to a shortage of train crews. These included the 6.40am, 8.17am 9am and 9.56am trains.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The West Lothian network as a whole just isn't viable. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact.

Sadly on the whole you're probably right. Lothian can chuck as many refurbished buses and new coaches in to the area they want, at the end of the day it's all pointless when you have poor routes.

The fact both the EX1 and X18 exist show a severe case of poor planning. All the EX1 in reality is doing is taking a very small portion of the X18 passengers. There's no need at all for 6 buses per hour from Bathgate to Edinburgh.

 

[Edirim]

I know a decade ago the idea was hard shoulder bus lanes... Wish lothian would press those in suches to get that implemented...why commute for 75mins Midlothian to Ratho area when it's half the time by car... So many other routes could also be created by using the park and rides as connection points.

But yeah the green arrow stuff is a nice idea but too late to impact bc rain services are better now than they were... It's like when lothian attacked west lothian in the first place.... They missed the boat to really hurt first.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Sadly on the whole you're probably right. Lothian can chuck as many refurbished buses and new coaches in to the area they want, at the end of the day it's all pointless when you have poor routes.

The fact both the EX1 and X18 exist show a severe case of poor planning. All the EX1 in reality is doing is taking a very small portion of the X18 passengers. There's no need at all for 6 buses per hour from Bathgate to Edinburgh.

If they could get a similar arrangement to Fife with bus lane hard shoulders, then a direct route from Livingston town centre stopping at the Fast Links and Deer Park could have some success. I believe that was the original plan behind the Fast Links but then the then motorway authority pulled out of the agreement to use the Hard Shoulders making the whole thing pointless.

 

[overthewater]

If they could get a similar arrangement to Fife with bus lane hard shoulders, then a direct route from Livingston town centre stopping at the Fast Links and Deer Park could have some success. I believe that was the original plan behind the Fast Links but then the then motorway authority pulled out of the agreement to use the Hard Shoulders making the whole thing pointless.

Fife has a Bus land from Fife to outskirts of Edinburgh, but has SOD all within Edinburgh, while the west Lothian routes have the opp Bus lanes within Edinburgh and Sod all on the Motorway. ( expect for that short stretch on the M9)

 

[LiviCrazy]

Fife has a Bus land from Fife to outskirts of Edinburgh, but has SOD all within Edinburgh, while the west Lothian routes have the opp Bus lanes within Edinburgh and Sod all on the Motorway. ( expect for that short stretch on the M9)

Definitely needs some joined up thinking. Livingston is a big town and our train stations aren’t well located. A fast motorway service (by any operator) could have some success, but it needs a way of avoiding the traffic jams.

 

[Jordan Adam]

But yeah the green arrow stuff is a nice idea but too late to impact bc rain services are better now than they were... It's like when lothian attacked west lothian in the first place.... They missed the boat to really hurt first.

This ^, If Lothian had attacked West Lothian in 2013/14 they may of had a chance of doing something. But they left it too late and by the time they did arrive First had already progressed significantly in improving services for the area. The Lothian fan brigade tend to compare Borders and East Lothian to West Lothian, but they couldn't be more different. Not to mention the management in control now are totally different and on the whole more competent (albeit Aberdeen is lacking a bit).

If they could get a similar arrangement to Fife with bus lane hard shoulders, then a direct route from Livingston town centre stopping at the Fast Links and Deer Park could have some success. I believe that was the original plan behind the Fast Links but then the then motorway authority pulled out of the agreement to use the Hard Shoulders making the whole thing pointless.

Possibly, for the Express services to work you want to be targeting Non-Train areas that have a decent population such as Boghall*, Blackburn & Whitburn. Not the towns that have good rail links.

*I know Boghall is not far from Bathgate Railway Station, however given that it's closer to Edinburgh passengers are less likely to want to travel in the wrong direction and then get a train when there's a direct bus.

 

[CM]

Fife has a Bus land from Fife to outskirts of Edinburgh, but has SOD all within Edinburgh, while the west Lothian routes have the opp Bus lanes within Edinburgh and Sod all on the Motorway. ( expect for that short stretch on the M9)

Stagecoach Fife don't have anything within Edinburgh because it'd not be viable. Imagine the daily dead mileage having buses run out of service to and from Dunfermline on a daily basis alone. I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons that they gave up on the Queensferry service which LCB started operating to replace it.

 

[158756]

Am I being stupid, or are the EX1 and EX2 not advertised on Lothian Country's website other than in the news section?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Am I being stupid, or are the EX1 and EX2 not advertised on Lothian Country's website other than in the news section?

They have their own site - https://greenarrowexpress.co.uk/

Lothian's whole website set up is quite a mess, the icons on the bottom of the main Lothian site for each subsidiary don't actually take you to the website for that subsidiary.

For example the Lothian Country icon/tab takes you to this rather useless page. https://www.lothianbuses.com/our-services/lothian-country

They should really have it so on all the company websites there's a section down at the bottom that allows you to easily switch sites.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Stagecoach Fife don't have anything within Edinburgh because it'd not be viable. Imagine the daily dead mileage having buses run out of service to and from Dunfermline on a daily basis alone. I'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons that they gave up on the Queensferry service which LCB started operating to replace it.

It would appear OTW meant Lane not Land....

 

[158756]

They have their own site - https://greenarrowexpress.co.uk/

Lothian's whole website set up is quite a mess, the icons on the bottom of the main Lothian site for each subsidiary don't actually take you to the website for that subsidiary.

For example the Lothian Country icon/tab takes you to this rather useless page. https://www.lothianbuses.com/our-services/lothian-country

They should really have it so on all the company websites there's a section down at the bottom that allows you to easily switch sites.

Green Arrow isn't linked from the main Lothian page or from Lothian Country, and I can't make that site come up through a Google search, so how are they expecting people to find it?

 

[nesw]

The Green Arrow isn’t listed on the Lothian app either. Lothian say that they ‘plan to add the services to the real time tracking.’

 

[Jordan Adam]

The Green Arrow isn’t listed on the Lothian app either. Lothian say that they ‘plan to add the services to the real time tracking.’

Didn't they also say 2 years ago Contactless is coming "soon"!..

 

[Stopper]

It’s unfair to judge the EX2 right now tbh. The 38 is considered awful by almost every local yet it manages to go. The EX2 has a lot of potential considering the disaster ScotRail have made of the trains. It may not succeed but it’s got a better chance than is being made out on here IMO.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It’s unfair to judge the EX2 right now tbh. The 38 is considered awful by almost every local yet it manages to go. The EX2 has a lot of potential considering the disaster ScotRail have made of the trains. It may not succeed but it’s got a better chance than is being made out on here IMO.

It's really not, anyone with an ounce of sense and knowledge of the area can tell the EX2 will not work in it's current format. The 38 works because it goes to Stirling, however even then the 15 minute frequency to Edinburgh isn't justified and currently just a defensive stance.

 

[Train368]

Yes here's an idea bus direct from edinburgh to Livingston then A899, Bathgate, Armadale and Whitburn and right through to M + D at Strathclyde park only theme park in the area and 30 mins along from West Lothian and it's almost impossible by public transport at moment (obviously seasonal) !

I've always thought M&D's needs a better bus service. It's a big reason a lot of people don't go their because it's in the middle of no where. Although the chances of Lothian Country providing a service is slim and would probably be more of a job for Lothian Motorcoaches. Great suggestion though

 

[overthewater]

Blue bus used to operate a bus: 702/703, it actually went to Ayr but it dont give you 5 -6 hours at M&D... It was always busy when it operated.

 

[Journeyman]

It's really not, anyone with an ounce of sense and knowledge of the area can tell the EX2 will not work in it's current format. The 38 works because it goes to Stirling, however even then the 15 minute frequency to Edinburgh isn't justified and currently just a defensive stance.

I doubt anyone in Linlithgow or Edinburgh uses the 38 to go to Stirling though - have you seen how long it takes?!? I live in Winchburgh, and if I was using public transport to get to Stirling, it's far quicker to jump off the 38 in Falkirk and complete the journey by train.

 

[Stopper]

I doubt anyone in Linlithgow or Edinburgh uses the 38 to go to Stirling though - have you seen how long it takes?!? I live in Winchburgh, and if I was using public transport to get to Stirling, it's far quicker to jump off the 38 in Falkirk and complete the journey by train.

Yep. The 38 is rarely used from Linlithgow to Stirling or Edinburgh. It’s mainly for travel to Winchburgh and Falkirk to be honest.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I am assuming some will use the 38 Stirling <> Falkirk.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I doubt anyone in Linlithgow or Edinburgh uses the 38 to go to Stirling though - have you seen how long it takes?!? I live in Winchburgh, and if I was using public transport to get to Stirling, it's far quicker to jump off the 38 in Falkirk and complete the journey by train.

Which is why I think it would be a good idea to travel on an EX2: Stirling > M9 > Linlithgow > Springfield > M9 > Edinburgh, Stirling journeys would miss out the middle man ie. Falkirk.

 

[smtglasgow]

The 38 is rarely used from Linlithgow to Stirling or Edinburgh. It’s mainly for travel to Winchburgh and Falkirk to be honest.

I’ve always assumed that the 38 was really meant for lots of overlapping local journeys. Do many people even travel across Falkirk or Linlithgow? A few concessions or bus nuts might do Falkirk or Linlithgow into Edinburgh, but for anyone else there’s the train. Not sure if there’s any market for longer distance Green Arrows (ie to Stirling). Citylink’s 909 is always being tinkered with, suggesting it isn’t the strongest performer. I suspect the Green Arrow has come too late to benefit from Scotrail’s woes. For much of last winter the rail service was terrible with drivers taken off for training, but things have improved a lot since about Easter. I suggested to a colleague who lives in Linlithgow that she might want to try the coach and she looked at me as if I was mad – M9 traffic was the killer.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I doubt anyone in Linlithgow or Edinburgh uses the 38 to go to Stirling though - have you seen how long it takes?!? I live in Winchburgh, and if I was using public transport to get to Stirling, it's far quicker to jump off the 38 in Falkirk and complete the journey by train.

I wasn't saying people would use it from Edinburgh to Stirling. In simplified terms what i was saying is the 38 works because it's longer and serves more areas.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wasn't saying people would use it from Edinburgh to Stirling. In simplified terms what i was saying is the 38 works because it's longer and serves more areas.

You're right - people do get fixated on the end to end journey but the reality is there is probably a load of overlapping journey flows.