West Lothian buses

[Gingerbus1991]

I think when they release the figures for the first 6 months trading in WL you will see why they will be in no position to lessen revenue or take massive gambles on Ridacards or such like .
I do agree they are missing a massive trick by not implementing a 7 day ticket although they possibly don't want to duplicate exactly what First do but as was stated it what the people have been used to for quite some time.

It wouldn't be duplicating as I see it as they already exist with LB services anyways, for all intent purposes it's the same company anyways.

 

[smtglasgow]

First’s changes will probably force Lothian to revise their network – if only to make sure their buses get in front again. We’ve obviously got no idea what sorts of losses Lothian are willing to take, but I assume they’re going to want to see some progress in the first half of 2019. If they revise their network in February/March, they’ll want to give it at least 6 months to see how it performs. But if they’re not making inroads into First’s market share by then….

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian Country's West Lothian venture has "failure" written all over it. Once the figures are in, the plug will be pulled.

 

[Driver362]

Can I ask what your basing your opinion on ,fact or fiction ? ,because if you have genuine into could you share it with me ,see if I need to knock up a c.v and head down the job centre ,opinions are like noses ,everyone has one I guess ,a other companies trading figures would for the same period be an interesting read too don't you think ,the thing is you read through here and it has doomed to failure written al! Over it ,we as employees see a slightly better picture ,but as previous posters have said time will tell

 

[In Focus]

Can I ask what your basing your opinion on ,fact or fiction ? ,because if you have genuine into could you share it with me ,see if I need to knock up a c.v and head down the job centre ,opinions are like noses ,everyone has one I guess ,a other companies trading figures would for the same period be an interesting read too don't you think ,the thing is you read through here and it has doomed to failure written al! Over it ,we as employees see a slightly better picture ,but as previous posters have said time will tell

I think they will remain but probably need to alter routes ,things like X18 and X27/X28 in their present form(first would not have binned them had they been the golden £££) are doomed but other like 280 and 275 might just save the day ,in an ideal World for passengers both companies could probably come up with a plan that would work but that's very unlikely .

 

[alangla]

I was in Edinburgh yesterday and noted almost all of the First vehicles I saw were under 5 years old, if nothing else, they’ve upped their game since Lothian appeared. Saw plenty of LCB vehicles, they looked tidy, but older, mix of 56 & NI plates. All appeared to be carrying largely fresh air. I don’t get this- AIUI, West Lothian council’s stake in Lothian Buses is tiny, so surely it’s not political pressure that’s driven this and overall Livingston & Bathgate don’t appear to be an untapped goldmine, especially with ScotRail hoovering up the longer hauls, why did this venture ever start?

Newbridge depot I can understand though- if they were really brave they could probably flog some of the older depots & move wholesale to new premises on industrial estates near the bypass, similar to First Glasgow closing Larkfield, Parkhead, Knightswood & Motherwell in favour of Caledonia, Scotstoun & Blantyre

 

[In Focus]

I was in Edinburgh yesterday and noted almost all of the First vehicles I saw were under 5 years old, if nothing else, they’ve upped their game since Lothian appeared. Saw plenty of LCB vehicles, they looked tidy, but older, mix of 56 & NI plates. All appeared to be carrying largely fresh air. I don’t get this- AIUI, West Lothian council’s stake in Lothian Buses is tiny, so surely it’s not political pressure that’s driven this and overall Livingston & Bathgate don’t appear to be an untapped goldmine, especially with ScotRail hoovering up the longer hauls, why did this venture ever start?

Newbridge depot I can understand though- if they were really brave they could probably flog some of the older depots & move wholesale to new premises on industrial estates near the bypass, similar to First Glasgow closing Larkfield, Parkhead, Knightswood & Motherwell in favour of Caledonia, Scotstoun & Blantyre

To be fair most of First vehicles were brought in before LCB decision to attack WL although the new paintwork has been brought to the fore with all Livingston vehicles being given priority to get them looking more professional.
I don't think LCB motive was political more a case of thinking First would as previously in the East just capitulate however t seems In last 12 /18 months group are 're focussing on the bus division around the UK with a bit of investment and backing such as Ticketer ,Contacless and 're branding, I think in next 12 months LCB will see they are not going to go away and in fact quite the opposite with network being increased a new pricing structure and the strong possibility of venturing into other areas which is something LCB would not have been taking into account.
As said previously interesting 6/12 months ahead .

 

[Jordan Adam]

To be fair most of First vehicles were brought in before LCB decision to attack WL although the new paintwork has been brought to the fore with all Livingston vehicles being given priority to get them looking more professional.
I don't think LCB motive was political more a case of thinking First would as previously in the East just capitulate however t seems In last 12 /18 months group are 're focussing on the bus division around the UK with a bit of investment and backing such as Ticketer ,Contacless and 're branding, I think in next 12 months LCB will see they are not going to go away and in fact quite the opposite with network being increased a new pricing structure and the strong possibility of venturing into other areas which is something LCB would not have been taking into account.
As said previously interesting 6/12 months ahead .

Don't forget too that West Lothian is a much better preforming operation than East Lothian & Borders were.

 

[overthewater]

Strange thing is, if Lothian had done this in 2015 or early part 2016, I think Lothian would have won, but they have waited until this year when First turned a corner, its madnesss...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Strange thing is, if Lothian had done this in 2015 or early part 2016, I think Lothian would have won, but they have waited until this year when First turned a corner, its madnesss...

Perhaps a couple of years earlier but take your point.

First appear to have subtly hardened their stance on competition - gently strangling competitors across the country. Granted, many have been smaller and less well resourced (such as Wessex, Western Greyhound) but extending to Go Ahead in the East. Don't know the area that well nor the whys and wherefores of the current battle but might suggest that First will look to batten down the hatches and try to starve Lothian as much as possible without doing anything massively retaliatory in the city.

 

[overthewater]

The biggest mystery has to be Lothian subbeness to bring in a proper ridacard system even on the Mobile...

 

[Lothian_Bus]

I was in Edinburgh yesterday and noted almost all of the First vehicles I saw were under 5 years old, if nothing else, they’ve upped their game since Lothian appeared. Saw plenty of LCB vehicles, they looked tidy, but older, mix of 56 & NI plates. All appeared to be carrying largely fresh air. I don’t get this- AIUI, West Lothian council’s stake in Lothian Buses is tiny, so surely it’s not political pressure that’s driven this and overall Livingston & Bathgate don’t appear to be an untapped goldmine, especially with ScotRail hoovering up the longer hauls, why did this venture ever start?

Newbridge depot I can understand though- if they were really brave they could probably flog some of the older depots & move wholesale to new premises on industrial estates near the bypass, similar to First Glasgow closing Larkfield, Parkhead, Knightswood & Motherwell in favour of Caledonia, Scotstoun & Blantyre

There are some 07/57 plates running on First Services into Edinburgh from West Lothian but in the main they do have a good fleet operating on this corridor.

I haven't ever seen any LCB 56 plates. ECB do have a few though.

 

[alangla]

I haven't ever seen any LCB 56 plates. ECB do have a few though.

Fair enough, I just saw the livery & caught a glimpse of the reg plate. Didn’t look at the service number or legals.

 

[Jordan Adam]

There are some 07/57 plates running on First Services into Edinburgh from West Lothian but in the main they do have a good fleet operating on this corridor.

I haven't ever seen any LCB 56 plates. ECB do have a few though.

LCB have some of those GN06 B7RLEs now. I assume that's what @alangla was referring to?

 

[alangla]

Nah, it was a Gemini I saw

 

[Driver362]

Remind me again in focus as to why Lothian formed the original lcb now t/a East coast busses and also securing jobs !! ,also a point of note is Lothian would need a site far bigger than Newbridge to house just the deckers from Longstone never mind anything else @Angela can't see them closing any of the locations anytime soon

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, as I think the fare systems that FSE and LC have is overly complicated to find out a ticket price.

Livingston To Edinburgh DayT -
FSE: £7/7.50(on-bus)
LC: £7.50

West Lothian Only DayT -
FSE: £4:30/£4:50(on-bus)/£4:00(off-peak)
LC: £5(or £3.50 for the day ticket if you pre-purchase the £17.50 introductory bundle).

Now, the FSE weekly ticket from West Lothian to Edinburgh is either £26 or £27 depending on where its bought, correct?

LC, if I buy the introductory £95 20x bundle that would mean using 5 of those(Mon-Fri) would be costing £23.75 per week?
Now, if indeed using just 5 of those per week is all you would use you would save a few £'s per week, correct?, over a 4 week period it would save you even more over Firsts weekly ticket, of course not counting First's Monthly ticket at £90.10/£93.

I've never thought about it before but on the face of things LCB are not bringing a large incentive. Cash wise to change from FSE, On cost alone anyways, but with lothian country's day tickets it does offer more buses overall throughout the Edinburgh region including using the trams in conjunction with the 275, at least I hope this is correct?

Lothian City has the Ridacard but even then its £19, not much less than Firsts £26/£27 weekly ticket, albeit you are getting a bigger, better, nicer service to travel on, as well as those trams for only £4 on a Lothian City Day Ticket..

Honestly I've never thought of this to the extent I have tonight but why not just introduce the bloody Ridacard+ too the out parts of there service for the £20 something £'s, I certainly think this could make a larger dent in FSEs service loads as well as tempting more people of the trains.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

LC, if I buy the introductory £95 20x bundle that would mean using 5 of those(Mon-Fri) would be costing £23.75 per week?.

Can't be done. LCB website says that the introductory offer can only be used on "non-consecutive days" which really is taking the pee IMHO.

 

[90019]

Nah, it was a Gemini I saw

Lothian's 56 plate Geminis 794-800 were transferred to ECB and renumbered 20794-20800.

 

[overthewater]

Can't be done. LCB website says that the introductory offer can only be used on "non-consecutive days" which really is taking the pee IMHO.

Who on earth would buy these awful things? Its the main reason why First is winning. You can't survive on oap passes alone..

 

[LiviCrazy]

The fare zones seem to be affecting things too. Have known quite a few people switching back to First in the Sighthill area for getting home. £3.70 single from Sighthill to Kirknewton/Wilkieston on LCB compared to £2.70 on First and that’s before considering that First do return fares.

The fare zone is oversimplified, it doesn’t work with the anomaly that a less than 15min journey from Kirknewton to Heriot-Watt costs £3.70 but you can go from Kirknewton to Deans (around an hour) for £1.70.

Some of the timings are weird, I don’t travel by them so not quite sure how they work. I’ve caught a 23/X23 at Sighthill into Edinburgh several times recently which arrives at the same time as the x27/x28 in the evening. Every single time my First service has beaten the LCB service into town despite going the “slower” way. But the opposite seems to happen out to West Lothian, somehow the LCB buses going through Kirknewton go as fast from the turning at Wilkieston to the traffic lights at East Calder as the First X23 (can only assume very few drop offs?).

 

[Gingerbus1991]

"

Can't be done. LCB website says that the introductory offer can only be used on "non-consecutive days" which really is taking the pee IMHO.

Its meaning, is that you don’t need to use it consecutively but you can if you want.

Provided that there used within 180 days or purchase, thats the only stipulation in restriction.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The LCB venture is one of lothians ways of displaying just how naive they can be in thinking that there popularity in the city is just as strong on the outskirts.

Of course First’s, East Coast operation of the time were terrible hence why I think LCB have had it easy in East Lothian, not to mention First simply left the East.

But I still applaud many of there inner city services.

Albeit I get a sense that not everything is as clear as it first appears, who knows if there isnt some sort of cash injection from West Lothian Council for Lothian to come further West, this theory makes sense considering WLC’s shareholding of Lothian, albeit a small one of course.

I certainly don’t see lothian spending the cash on a new depot etc if there was nothing to go on, perhaps even there using cash generated from there Motor Coach venture to subsidies there LCB, LMC did seem to be rather popular during summer.

 

[Driver362]

That's right first left East Lothian ,lcb at that time as.they were known move in as asked to fill the breach ,they were also asked to give jobs to the people made.redundant also securing jobs with Lothian themselves ! Fact ! I remember waiting time at regent rd and watching the then first services to by with light loadings within a.year or so the equivalent lcb services were full loads . But in fairness I do.believe they might have thought West Lothian a.similar but to crack but it ain't ! As previous posters have said the time to have done it with ridacard would have been around 4/5 years ago when they were running scrap and service was patchy at best ,but,I qil! Say it again lcb aren't doing as.bad.as.many on here seem to think some alsoalso selective memory as to why lcb came about !

 

[In Focus]

Remind me again in focus as to why Lothian formed the original lcb now t/a East coast busses and also securing jobs !! ,also a point of note is Lothian would need a site far bigger than Newbridge to house just the deckers from Longstone never mind anything else @Angela can't see them closing any of the locations anytime soon

Dalkeith and Musselburgh were absolutely heamoraging money with first and had been let go into such a state it would have cost millions to put it right 2 significant factors that just would never have made sense to pursue.
If LCB or Lothain thought West Lothian was of similar state then thats a massive error.
The money they have spent setting this operation up will take years to recover and whilst I agree on some routes they are doing fine recouping the costs and turning a profit on the numbers they are carrying is never going to happen unless First move out which seems very unlikely .

 

[Driver362]

Livingstone was quite good losing money too and were talking in to the millions p/a here ,I can only guess as to why the turnaround in fortunes ,and that's grand if your a deans employee, as you probably know I work for lcb having had a decent amount of time at first ,and am gratefully the living and opportunities I got ,I'm only here for open honest balanced debate ,who knows what the future holds

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Livingstone was quite good losing money too and were talking in to the millions p/a here ,I can only guess as to why the turnaround in fortunes ,and that's grand if your a deans employee, as you probably know I work for lcb having had a decent amount of time at first ,and am gratefully the living and opportunities I got ,I'm only here for open honest balanced debate ,who knows what the future holds

Why did you leave First for LCB?

 

[In Focus]

Livingstone was quite good losing money too and were talking in to the millions p/a here ,I can only guess as to why the turnaround in fortunes ,and that's grand if your a deans employee, as you probably know I work for lcb having had a decent amount of time at first ,and am gratefully the living and opportunities I got ,I'm only here for open honest balanced debate ,who knows what the future holds

Livingston was excellent at throwing away money previously when it operated 40+ routes mostly doing absolutely nothing as the landscape , workplace and traffic movements of the district changed and had it not moved with the times and taken some drastic decisions it would have most certainly home the way of East Lothian, that was the change in fortunes binnimg unsustainable routes and streamlining to suit and today if your not servicing Livingston it's not going to make any kind of return which is unfortunate for places like Bathgate ,Broxburn etc but that's where WL is at present.
We are all just here for a bit of debate and to have a wee say on things ,decisions about futures ,yours and all others will be made at a higher level and its nothing personal and we all enjoy your posts from an inside LCB perspective im sure I can say for most on here .

 

[Driver362]

Why did you leave First for LCB?

Personal reasons mate , and the chance of something new really not any one big reason tbh

 

[Driver362]

Livingston was excellent at throwing away money previously when it operated 40+ routes mostly doing absolutely nothing as the landscape , workplace and traffic movements of the district changed and had it not moved with the times and taken some drastic decisions it would have most certainly home the way of East Lothian, that was the change in fortunes binnimg unsustainable routes and streamlining to suit and today if your not servicing Livingston it's not going to make any kind of return which is unfortunate for places like Bathgate ,Broxburn etc but that's where WL is at present.
We are all just here for a bit of debate and to have a wee say on things ,decisions about futures ,yours and all others will be made at a higher level and its nothing personal and we all enjoy your posts from an inside LCB perspective im sure I can say for most on here .

Thank you suppose like some I’m fortunate to have and currently work for both