West Lothian buses

[overthewater]

A: If you have ridercard you can travel in west Lothian if you pay 1.70 that is what LCB are saying. Secondly That place in broxburn has been around for donkey years...

 

[MrHopefull]

Email about company

 

[winston270twm]

Suggests that Lothian are keen to expand even further, I assume at First's expense without any disposal's being made

 

[overthewater]

That make no sense? So there depot in Newbridge that could hold up to 150 buses and coaches which would included the coach department. Since there hopping to more everything LCB to this place including 43 it would free up alot of space within the city. Why would it need another depot? Even First doesnt have 150 let alone 100 buses at Livingston.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think it's a very good idea personally. It might not be needed this minute but it's a very good investment long term. The City will only grow and demand for services as a result will also grow. Lothian Motorcoaches has quite a few vehicles already legally in there name along with the others it uses. I think it's roughly 30 give or take (5 Panther3's, 3 VanHools, 10 Gemini's, eventually up to 10/12 RM's). I also believe they look after the heritage fleet as it's apparently also gonna be available for hire (eventually). I've noticed recently a few older coaches (30+ years old) have been added to the fleet too, Wedding hires perhaps? Either way whilst demand isn't there now it will be in the future

 

[Stef434]

A: If you have ridercard you can travel in west Lothian if you pay 1.70 that is what LCB are saying. Secondly That place in broxburn has been around for donkey years...

Agreed the Broxburn site was at East Mains Ind Est it has been there for many years and was not an operational depot or garage, dont think it was even registered to/by Lothian as a bus outlay,but was full of Tridents and Darts
First were aware of this and used to headcount the buses on a weekly basis

 

[F262YTJ]

Can anybody help with an up to date fleet list for Lothian please?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Can anybody help with an up to date fleet list for Lothian please?

http://glasgowbuses.000webhostapp.com/Lothian_Detailed_Fleetlist.xls

 

[Stef434]

That make no sense? So there depot in Newbridge that could hold up to 150 buses and coaches which would included the coach department. Since there hopping to more everything LCB to this place including 43 it would free up alot of space within the city. Why would it need another depot? Even First doesnt have 150 let alone 100 buses at Livingston.

Livingston has certainly got a tad smaller in the last five years in terms of PVR they are one of the smallest outfits now possibly a PVR of around 55/60 ish

 

[overthewater]

Livingston has certainly got a tad smaller in the last five years in terms of PVR they are one of the smallest outfits now possibly a PVR of around 55/60 ish

Throw in No43, and coach hires you still have room for at least 20 more buses, Again would lothian want to operate to Fauldhouse?

 

[smtglasgow]

Regardless of how successful the West Lothian adventure turns out to be, a new depot at Newbridge seems like a smart strategic move. There is going to be a lot of development round Maybury and further west, not to mention Winchburgh and Kirkliston continually expanding. With all the expansion over the last decade the city depots must be at or close to capacity. Only downside is the appalling traffic round Newbridge every time anything happens on the M8, M9 or on the bridge (or sometimes if just rains a bit…).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Once they get bored of West Lothian what market do you think they'll pointlessly attack next? Fife or Borders? Perhaps the latter is the easier of the two, but Fife would be able to hold the managements short attention span for a little longer.

Abellio better watch out, they may lose Scotrail soon!

 

[oldman]

Seems a very aggressive position. We are here to stay, we are going to take your business and you can keep your depot. Where does this leave the workers?

Incidentally, I notice that the new services are registered to Lothian Country, but the 43 is still Lothian Buses, so I suppose LCB is no longer a dormant company

 

[overthewater]

Not with those fares they won't...

 

[Jordan Adam]

The management board at Lothian are honestly like a bunch of 5 year olds. Can't make up their mind about anything (cough cough liveries), and when they do they just get bored and move to something else.

Thank god it's currently only a bus service they operate!

 

[oldman]

Every passenger who gets on a green bus (including the concesssions) is taking money off First. Lothian expect to lose money for the next couple of years, are First willing to do the same.

 

[overthewater]

Can you operate a bus service on the oap passes alone? I don't think so. And soon even these people will release they quicker getting on the first routes. The. Number of people using stagecoach to the bridge is increasing because there are quicker.

 

[smtglasgow]

I’m guessing Lothian are watching the mess Firstgroup have got themselves into and think they’re pushing at an open door. A straightforward purchase of the Livingston depot and operations would probably fail the Competition Commission’s tests, so from Lothian’s perspective, the only way in is to set up a rival operation and hope First pull out. Perhaps the fear is that if Lothian don’t step in now, someone else (Stagecoach?, McGills?) might - and a strong competitor just to west of Edinburgh is NOT what Lothian want..

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach might get one depot but I don't all three. Mcgills are not a strong position look at the cuts in the West. Maybe it's scared of national express?

It's the fact Lothian are doing this so half arsed. That's what so annoying.

 

[winston270twm]

I’m guessing Lothian are watching the mess Firstgroup have got themselves into and think they’re pushing at an open door. A straightforward purchase of the Livingston depot and operations would probably fail the Competition Commission’s tests, so from Lothian’s perspective, the only way in is to set up a rival operation and hope First pull out. Perhaps the fear is that if Lothian don’t step in now, someone else (Stagecoach?, McGills?) might - and a strong competitor just to west of Edinburgh is NOT what Lothian want..

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same occur elsewhere, until a decisive decision is made as regards a big sell off, break-up of First Group etc the uncertainty is pretty much saying 'come and get us, take what you want' to others.....

 

[tbtc]

would lothian want to operate to Fauldhouse?

This is one of the big problem with Operation West Lothian.

You can make a case for extending the "City" network to Livingston, maybe that means to Deans and Bathgate too. But the population density around Armadale/ Whitburn/ Fauldhouse isn't fantastic - the reliability of bus services becomes worse the longer they are - the train becomes more competitive the further away from the city you go - there's the problem of trying to provide some small places with services to all of Bathgate/ Livi/ Edinburgh... it just becomes a stretch.

But if they are trying to rival First then are they hoping to lumber First with the chickenfeed routes (and just steam in on the profitable corridors) or are they serious about full competition.

If Lothian were a private company, I could see the idea for a pincer movement with Lothian taking the territory around the X27/X28 corridor (and north of that - inc Pumpherston, Broxburn etc), with BlueBus getting the West West Lothian operations, but a public company aren't going to get into bed with a private company to carve up the market like that, are they?

Regardless of how successful the West Lothian adventure turns out to be, a new depot at Newbridge seems like a smart strategic move. There is going to be a lot of development round Maybury and further west, not to mention Winchburgh and Kirkliston continually expanding. With all the expansion over the last decade the city depots must be at or close to capacity. Only downside is the appalling traffic round Newbridge every time anything happens on the M8, M9 or on the bridge (or sometimes if just rains a bit…).

I was stood on Calton Hill a couple of days ago wondering how much money Central Garage is worth nowadays, and how there can't be many people on bus driver salaries living within a short distance of there nowadays - if they are attracting drivers from well outside of the city centre then maybe it makes sense to run (some) Central services from Longstone and some Longstone services from Broxburn?

That said, the "over 150 buses" could just be PR - it sounds good, it scares First, it looks impressive, it fires an early shot in the "PR battle", but ultimately they may only be planning to have a fraction of that number there.

 

[oldman]

But if they are trying to rival First then are they hoping to lumber First with the chickenfeed routes (and just steam in on the profitable corridors) or are they serious about full competition.

I assume they are not serious about competition. They are serious about replacing First. Why they want to do this I don't know - perhaps they believe their own publicity.

I was stood on Calton Hill a couple of days ago wondering how much money Central Garage is worth nowadays, and how there can't be many people on bus driver salaries living within a short distance of there nowadays

Depends what you mean by a short distance, but try looking towards Leith and Lochend (either side of Easter Road stadium).

 

[overthewater]

This is one of the big problem with Operation West Lothian.
You can make a case for extending the "City" network to Livingston, maybe that means to Deans and Bathgate too. But the population density around Armadale/ Whitburn/ Fauldhouse isn't fantastic - the reliability of bus services becomes worse the longer they are - the train becomes more competitive the further away from the city you go - there's the problem of trying to provide some small places with services to all of Bathgate/ Livi/ Edinburgh... it just becomes a stretch.

But if they are trying to rival First then are they hoping to lumber First with the chickenfeed routes (and just steam in on the profitable corridors) or are they serious about full competition.

If Lothian were a private company, I could see the idea for a pincer movement with Lothian taking the territory around the X27/X28 corridor (and north of that - inc Pumpherston, Broxburn etc), with BlueBus getting the West West Lothian operations, but a public company aren't going to get into bed with a private company to carve up the market like that, are they?

Then Lothian are even stupid than we first thought if its only going after the Edinburgh market. The routes are dire going into to Edinburgh, every time i see them there mainly empty. First makes most of its money around the West lothian area. Of course if Lothian were to operate the Livingston - Edinburgh routes then maybe it would attract more City passengers. Its been pointed out if your traveling around West Lothian your quicker using first.

I was stood on Calton Hill a couple of days ago wondering how much money Central Garage is worth nowadays, and how there can't be many people on bus driver salaries living within a short distance of there nowadays - if they are attracting drivers from well outside of the city centre then maybe it makes sense to run (some) Central services from Longstone and some Longstone services from Broxburn?

That said, the "over 150 buses" could just be PR - it sounds good, it scares First, it looks impressive, it fires an early shot in the "PR battle", but ultimately they may only be planning to have a fraction of that number there.

How much could Lothian get if it sold Central Garage? A nice new depot elsewhere in the city could be better?

 

[tbtc]

Depends what you mean by a short distance, but try looking towards Leith and Lochend (either side of Easter Road stadium).

True, but Leith is becoming a more expensive area nowadays - all these Hipsters - and Marine isn't too far away from those areas either.

Just speculation, no substance to it, but Central is a fairly big site in a fairly expensive part of the city - if you could reshuffle services so that you knock some services to Longstone and then some Longstone services to a much cheaper base (industrial estate in Broxburn) then you might save a few quid.

Then Lothian are even stupid than we first thought if its only going after the Edinburgh market. The routes are dire going into to Edinburgh, every time i see them there mainly empty. First makes most of its money around the West lothian area. Of course if Lothian were to operate the Livingston - Edinburgh routes then maybe it would attract more City passengers. Its been pointed out if your traveling around West Lothian your quicker using first.

I've no idea which services are most profitable, but the frequencies west of the "X27 corridor" don't look juicy enough for Lothian to run that far out of town for - plus eliminating First from the Edinburgh services means a virtual monopoly on A8/A71 corridors into the city.

How much could Lothian get if it sold Central Garage? A nice new depot elsewhere in the city could be better?

I don't know that it'd be easy to buy the land for something as large as a bus garage and get planning permission for one inside the area of the A720 Ring Road - but given the number of services that terminate at the Gyle and the number of services that terminate at the Infirmary, a depot near to either of those sites could feed a lot of routes.

Whereas with a depot very close to the city centre, you're effectively running light to the suburban termini in the morning and effectively running light in the evening.

As I say though, just speculation.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

So in a bit of (not sure if boredom or reminising) I looked back at the darts on the 22, and I noticed in google images this picture of a Lothian Dart with Dunfermline on the roller blind.

(I could not find the pic to link to his flickr as this was found in google images but full credit goes to WSMTDL2499)

It made me wonder why LB had Dunfermline on the rollerblind, back in 1999/2000... I don't know of any Darts being sold to any bus company in Fife either so I can't imagine they added that after the fact.

Was there ever plans to go from Edinburgh to Dunfermline/Park and ride/Inverkething back then? It certainly is interesting to think especially with the expansion today and future possible planning that maybe over the FRB is not out of the realms of possibility...

 

[overthewater]

Lothian did operate a service to Dunfermline around this time but it was twice a day and went only to the tourist spot around moddie street. Lothian also went to deep see world.

 

[smtglasgow]

Presumably the fact that First have maintained services to places like Harthill, Fauldhouse and Blackridge means they make money? No reason why Lothian – assuming they’re going for world domination – couldn’t serve these from their new West Lothian base. But there definitely isn’t business for two operators. If Lothian can push First out then there’s no reason a decent network can’t be developed, but getting from here to there won’t be easy and the more you think about it, it just seems very very expensive.

 

[90019]

How much could Lothian get if it sold Central Garage?

Not as much as you might think, because the land would need major decontamination before you could do anything with it.

 

[overthewater]

Presumably the fact that First have maintained services to places like Harthill, Fauldhouse and Blackridge means they make money? No reason why Lothian – assuming they’re going for world domination – couldn’t serve these from their new West Lothian base. But there definitely isn’t business for two operators. If Lothian can push First out then there’s no reason a decent network can’t be developed, but getting from here to there won’t be easy and the more you think about it, it just seems very very expensive.

Thats not always been the case, First pulled out of Harthill and Blackridge around 2002? I remember it was just Bulldog, and Davidson covering those parts. Then passengers, I think it was around this time First come back into these places.

 

[overthewater]

LCB are having a wee roadshow next week to highlight the new routes