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West Lothian buses

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overthewater

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Maybe not, I wouldn't rule out some 9 or a 64 since both are not used by Lothian:

In case your wondering:
9: Edinburgh - East Calder - Livingston - St Johns - Knightsbridge - deans - Bathage - Armadale
63: Asda Jewal - Edinburgh - Gyle - Broxburn - Craigshill - Livingston
64: old 16: Edinburgh - Broxburn - Bathgate - Armdale.
 
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SouthSub

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I think the 9 may have been the first bus I got without an accompanying adult. £1 return Livingston to Edinburgh!
 

Gingerbus1991

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It does appear that this operation is being dealt with through pure reputation alone? considering that First in Livi, Falkirk, Stirling, Glasgow and not to mention aberdeen being plagued with strikes as well has left the company gaining a bad rep for many, many years, down to Filthy buses, lateness and unreliability, many will not mind paying alittle extra for something with cleaner, more reliable vehicles with friendlier drivers at the helm.

First need to sell up and let someone new and fresh come in with major investment to really show the public a focused attitude to operating buses, with lower fares, after all this is what most care about really.

I speak as a weegy lad of course so cant fully comprehend these operation in the east, but First Glasgows services and buses are usually dead outside of rushour and the vehicles are, old, cold, smelly and overpriced!

Even though bus patronage is declining due to car and train usage Its worth noting that not to far in the distant future Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen is set for Low Emission Zones, not to mention I reckon that congestion charging will play a part in this as well, theres got to be many in the scottish central belt who use a car to edinburgh or glasgow for work/leisure, and if bus travel becomes the seriously cheaper way to these citys theres potential to realise that the day of the bus is coming back in years to come, for city centres anyways...
 
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Gingerbus1991

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It does appear that this operation is being dealt with through pure reputation alone, considering that First in Livi, Falkirk, Stirling, Glasgow and not to mention aberdeen being plagued with strikes as well has left the company gaining a bad rep for many, many years, down to Filthy, Late and reliability issues, many will not mind paying alittle extra for something with cleaner, more reliable, friendlier driver through LCB treating drivers better ect.

First need to sell up and let someone new and fresh come in!

I speak as a weegy lad of course so cant fully comprehend these operation in the east, but First Glasgows services and buses are usually dead outside of rushour and the vehicles are, old, cold, smelly and overpriced!
Not to mention there drivers attitudes stink!
 

SpeedbirdA350

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How busy are they?
At 6:30, not busy. But they need to start at some time and I can only assume they chose to start at that time to get the spread out properly. I think the timetable will be changed sooner rather than later as the X27/X28 every 30 minutes I think could go to every 15 minutes (especially in the peak time) although it depends again on the popularity of them.

It does appear that this operation is being dealt with through pure reputation alone? considering that First in Livi, Falkirk, Stirling, Glasgow and not to mention aberdeen being plagued with strikes as well has left the company gaining a bad rep for many, many years, down to Filthy buses, lateness and unreliability, many will not mind paying alittle extra for something with cleaner, more reliable vehicles with friendlier drivers at the helm.

First need to sell up and let someone new and fresh come in with major investment to really show the public a focused attitude to operating buses!
And they might just want to sell up. Especially if they see passanger numbers drop and head towards Lothian services.

*speculation time* (ignore the CC for a moment) I think if Lothian were to become more of a Brand than a "company" so to speak (just like First and Stagecoach), and try take over First in Falkirk, Stirling etc then I think it would do a better job than First, however I wonder how Falkirk Council would react, if they would see it as a possitive thing for example and of course, if that happened would it be unthinkable that Lothian attempt something in Glasgow? My worry is if they DID go down this route (which right now given everything that's going on it's not impossible) would it have any negitive impact on our city services?
 

overthewater

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I still think Lothian are playing a dangerous game, especial with higher fares, of course for this week with all the free tickets they handed out, which would put any drug pusher to shame, alot of people will try the Lothian. Its Next monday which will be interesting, will the passengers make the switch? pay the higher fares and increase journey times? First Can't sell as Lothian will not buy and who else would want to buy it? If Lothian were to expand further:
negative impact on our city services?

To begin with no, and could actually result in improvements because if Lothian can get more drives especially if there create new routes from West lothian in the Gyle, or city like Granton etc it will reduce car numbers and thus speed up traffic flow. I think its limits would be Falkirk and that would be really pushing it, Stirling will be right out of its league.

I think maybe Nat Express should buy out Firstbus, then sell off the parts its doesnt like, ie Bluebird. I think that is the only happy ending were see. First Glasgow are investing, with 100 new buses and refreb plenty of mid life deckers.
 

Mal

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At 6:30, not busy. But they need to start at some time and I can only assume they chose to start at that time to get the spread out properly. I think the timetable will be changed sooner rather than later as the X27/X28 every 30 minutes I think could go to every 15 minutes (especially in the peak time) although it depends again on the popularity of them.


And they might just want to sell up. Especially if they see passanger numbers drop and head towards Lothian services.

*speculation time* (ignore the CC for a moment) I think if Lothian were to become more of a Brand than a "company" so to speak (just like First and Stagecoach), and try take over First in Falkirk, Stirling etc then I think it would do a better job than First, however I wonder how Falkirk Council would react, if they would see it as a possitive thing for example and of course, if that happened would it be unthinkable that Lothian attempt something in Glasgow? My worry is if they DID go down this route (which right now given everything that's going on it's not impossible) would it have any negitive impact on our city services?

As an exiled Edinburgher now in Liverpool, I keep a close eye on Auld Reekie and must admit I'm starting to be concerned that Lothian could be expanding too far too fast?! Lothian have a great reputation and are a good reliable operator, but could all this expansion put too much strain on the company? I sincerely hope not as Edinburgh without madder and white buses would lose its whole character, in my opinion.
 

overthewater

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As an exiled Edinburgher now in Liverpool, I keep a close eye on Auld Reekie and must admit I'm starting to be concerned that Lothian could be expanding too far too fast?! Lothian have a great reputation and are a good reliable operator, but could all this expansion put too much strain on the company? I sincerely hope not as Edinburgh without madder and white buses would lose its whole character, in my opinion.

It's got the money to do it, with X99 cruise route and tours. The company has made improvements within the city like the 200, 300 and 400 which has also opened up new links for other parts of the city along with the Airport. The company has also cut back routes, especially around Mid-Lothian in which it competes with the borders railway. Mind you has this expansion all been done to help pay for the trams?
 

Mal

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Not to mention there drivers attitudes stink!

'There drivers' - First drivers I hope you mean! I went to Doors Open in 2016 and was talking to some drivers including one who had 'emigrated' from Yorkshire. I asked him why Lothian and he said because it had a great reputation, fantastic conditions, good management and just that the name meant a real good company to work for. And no, there wasn't a manager or inspector twisting his arm!
 
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Gingerbus1991

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It's got the money to do it, with X99 cruise route and tours. The company has made improvements within the city like the 200, 300 and 400 which has also opened up new links for other parts of the city along with the Airport. The company has also cut back routes, especially around Mid-Lothian in which it competes with the borders railway. Mind you has this expansion all been done to help pay for the trams?
Route cuts especially, I think the 27/28 is traveling via fountainpark and to accomadate this I suppose thats why LB 34 has been cut?
 

route101

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At 6:30, not busy. But they need to start at some time and I can only assume they chose to start at that time to get the spread out properly. I think the timetable will be changed sooner rather than later as the X27/X28 every 30 minutes I think could go to every 15 minutes (especially in the peak time) although it depends again on the popularity of them.


And they might just want to sell up. Especially if they see passanger numbers drop and head towards Lothian services.

*speculation time* (ignore the CC for a moment) I think if Lothian were to become more of a Brand than a "company" so to speak (just like First and Stagecoach), and try take over First in Falkirk, Stirling etc then I think it would do a better job than First, however I wonder how Falkirk Council would react, if they would see it as a possitive thing for example and of course, if that happened would it be unthinkable that Lothian attempt something in Glasgow? My worry is if they DID go down this route (which right now given everything that's going on it's not impossible) would it have any negitive impact on our city services?

If Lothian tried Glasgow , id imagine it would be called Strathclyde or Glasgow Transport , unlikely .
 

route101

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I only ever remember Fauldhouse being the 26.
I also have a vague recollection of the following:

16: Edinburgh - Armadale
(the 16 went all the way out to Airdrie at one point iirc)
19: Edinburgh - Armadale - Blackridge (latterly was part of the 16 timetable before Blackridge journeys were axed)
X21: Edinburgh - Bellsquarry
X22: Edinburgh - Livingston bus station
X23: Edinburgh - Livingston Deans
X24: Edinburgh - Livingston (Deans through different route to X23 ??)
Also remember there being a 275, 278, 279, but can't remember their routes
Note: I'm going back to mid to late 80's here

Crazy ,didnt know the 16 went to Airdrie. Remember the 16 until fairly recently
 

Mal

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That would have been the SMT / Eastern Scottish 16 to Glasgow which goes back to the 1950s or 60s.
 
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FlybeDash8Q400

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Ok. I've done the entirety of both the 275 and X28 today and I think the routes will work, they may just need the odd tweak in a few places. It is obviously difficult to judge what will happen next but here are my thoughts:

The 275 could extend to Harthill to replace most of the 22 should it be withdrawn, this is very much possible in my eyes and I think it is something Lothian will look into. My only questions with the 275 still are the half hourly frequency on a Sunday (I only think it's there to attract folk). Also Serving Kirkton Campus at weekends seems daft too and is there a market for the Gyle/Edinburgh Park section? I personally don't think so and I'd rather it ran into the City but that bit is early days with regards to the latter.

I wouldn't change the X27/X28's routes much, Possibly X28 could run through Deans South and maybe change the stopping pattern in Edinburgh, Perhaps running to Morrisons and Birniehill may be looked at too, But overall things look very promising for these two routes. If there were to be a double in frequency this should only happen Monday to Saturday and if the 23/X23 is cut.

I noticed quite a few people were angry with First not serving the hospital much these days and all of 5 of the Lothian Country routes will serve here, this could prove to be a key market for Lothian. Having just the crap 26 and 27 running there is largely pointless as the market is very limited on those two routes any. The 26 takes ages to go anywhere beyond Fauldhouse and The 27 is merely half of a town service serving markets First are no longer interested in.

Despite strong criticism from a few on this thread I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the routes around Livi and I expect them to stay that way. It worked and it didn't feel like it took that long. Nobody seemed to moan about it either when onboard, In fact they liked it.

Also worth noting that the introduction of the 287 may very well kill off most of the 21 too.

So, I think the 21 and 22 will be completely withdrawn in the near future. The 22 replaced by 275 extension to Harthill, The 21 replaced by an extension of the 287 to Whitburn or Harthill. The 27 which isn't under any threat may be withdrawn too I feel if it stays as it is. The 26 may suffer from cuts between Bathgate and Fauldhouse too. The rest of the network from First is fine for now. I doubt first would cut the 25 between Livi and Blackridge instead perhaps the bit between Bathgate and Blackridge but I guess we'll see as time goes on with that one.

Right now the 24/25 aren't under any real threat although a small part of the 25 will be when the 280 launches.

Again this all talk for now but long term it looks to be in Lothian's favour, Well at least for now it does.

Would be interesting to hear your thoughts/ideas on new routes/extensions/replacements
 

Darklord8899

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That would have been the SMT / Eastern Scottish 16 to Glasgow which goes back to the 1950s or 60s.

That must have been an interesting journey....Edinburgh to Glasgow via the back roads and every town inbetween :lol:
 

oldman

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Extending to Edinburgh Park gets closer to Hermiston Gait, the warehouse area of South Gyle, even Bankhead, so potentially a lot of lowish-paid workers who may be attracted by a 30 minute frequency and earlier and later buses than First's Gyle service. It's worth a try.

That must have been an interesting journey....Edinburgh to Glasgow via the back roads and every town inbetween :lol:

Until the early '80s there were three Edinburgh-Glasgow routes, the 16, and the 27 and 35 via Sighthill and Shotts, 27 via Hamilton, 35 via Bellshill. Buses were a bit faster then, with conductors on a lot of routes.
 

goldisgood

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Ok. I've done the entirety of both the 275 and X28 today and I think the routes will work, they may just need the odd tweak in a few places. It is obviously difficult to judge what will happen next but here are my thoughts:

The 275 could extend to Harthill to replace most of the 22 should it be withdrawn, this is very much possible in my eyes and I think it is something Lothian will look into. My only questions with the 275 still are the half hourly frequency on a Sunday (I only think it's there to attract folk). Also Serving Kirkton Campus at weekends seems daft too and is there a market for the Gyle/Edinburgh Park section? I personally don't think so and I'd rather it ran into the City but that bit is early days with regards to the latter.

I wouldn't change the X27/X28's routes much, Possibly X28 could run through Deans South and maybe change the stopping pattern in Edinburgh, Perhaps running to Morrisons and Birniehill may be looked at too, But overall things look very promising for these two routes. If there were to be a double in frequency this should only happen Monday to Saturday and if the 23/X23 is cut.

I noticed quite a few people were angry with First not serving the hospital much these days and all of 5 of the Lothian Country routes will serve here, this could prove to be a key market for Lothian. Having just the crap 26 and 27 running there is largely pointless as the market is very limited on those two routes any. The 26 takes ages to go anywhere beyond Fauldhouse and The 27 is merely half of a town service serving markets First are no longer interested in.

Despite strong criticism from a few on this thread I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the routes around Livi and I expect them to stay that way. It worked and it didn't feel like it took that long. Nobody seemed to moan about it either when onboard, In fact they liked it.

Also worth noting that the introduction of the 287 may very well kill off most of the 21 too.

So, I think the 21 and 22 will be completely withdrawn in the near future. The 22 replaced by 275 extension to Harthill, The 21 replaced by an extension of the 287 to Whitburn or Harthill. The 27 which isn't under any threat may be withdrawn too I feel if it stays as it is. The 26 may suffer from cuts between Bathgate and Fauldhouse too. The rest of the network from First is fine for now. I doubt first would cut the 25 between Livi and Blackridge instead perhaps the bit between Bathgate and Blackridge but I guess we'll see as time goes on with that one.

Right now the 24/25 aren't under any real threat although a small part of the 25 will be when the 280 launches.

Again this all talk for now but long term it looks to be in Lothian's favour, Well at least for now it does.

Would be interesting to hear your thoughts/ideas on new routes/extensions/replacements
I've always said, and been supported, by an idea of a Harthill - Whitburn - Blackburn - Livingston - Broxburn - Edinburgh service which would give connections from the places without trains to Edinburgh. Let's call this the X22, replacing the 275 between Whitburn and Blackburn. This would run every 30 minutes with double deckers, and run through Livingston Village to Livingston, and limited stop into Edinburgh.
Run the 275 as it does to Blackburn, but then to Bathgate replacing the 287, or run the 287 like the 275 from Whitburn. Probably make this run with single deckers, every 30 minutes Mon-Sat, hourly Sundays. Call this the 275 or 280. The X22/2xx combine to run every 15 minutes Blackburn to Livingston.
Run the 280 every 30 minutes along the full route with single deckers, hourly evenings/Sundays (probably not much change from what it's going to be).
Change the X27/X28 to two routes: X27 as Deans to Edinburgh, running like the 280 to Livingston then the current route to Edinburgh, running this every 30 minutes with double deckers, and have the 28, running the current X28 route every 30 minutes with either single deckers or double deckers but maybe run it the current First 23/X23 route (slower) to allow people to get on/off here.
Finally have the X21 running via Howden and Ladywell every 30 minutes with Single deckers, like the 275 but skipping Pumpherston maybe?

The X21/X22 combine every 15 minutes Livingston - Uphall - Broxburn - Edinburgh, with the X22 providing a faster service.
The X22/275 combine every 15 minutes Blackburn - Livingston, with fairly equal journey times (give or take a few minutes)
The 28/280 combine every 15 minutes Bathgate - Livingston, with the 280 providing a faster service (maybe cut the 28 back to Deans and run some sort of route like the 25 every 30 minutes if people don't use the 28 between Deans and Bathgate?)
The X27/280 combine every 15 minutes Deans - Eliburn - Livingston, with equal journey times.
The X27 and 28 both run through Mid Calder and East Calder along different routes - one is a limited stop service, the other a stopping service via Kirknewton.

Thoughts? As I have said before while posting versions of this, I don't know the area well, and whilst LC have some good base ideas they are executed poorly. These ideas would build on what they are doing at the moment, whilst making services more competitive against First. I'd guess it would need a few more resources than currently planned, but I'm sure Lothian can find a few extra buses!
 

Mal

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Until the early '80s there were three Edinburgh-Glasgow routes, the 16, and the 27 and 35 via Sighthill and Shotts, 27 via Hamilton, 35 via Bellshill. Buses were a bit faster then, with conductors on a lot of routes.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten the others and route numbers. Thinking of SMT days now, didn't they operate a Limited Stop Edinburgh - Glasgow route as well? Can't remember the route number though.
 

overthewater

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Thanks for that. I'd forgotten the others and route numbers. Thinking of SMT days now, didn't they operate a Limited Stop Edinburgh - Glasgow route as well? Can't remember the route number though.

15: Glasgow - Livingston - Edinburgh with 53 seat leopards then the X14 T Types.
 

Darklord8899

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@FlybeDash8Q400 :
You are questioning the 275 route to Edinburgh Park, bear in mind today is Sunday. I think that Monday to Friday it may be popular (at certain times of the day more than others) for Gyle/Edinburgh Park/Hermiston Gait workers. Also it provides another alternative from Edinburgh Park Station to Hermiston Gait and Gyle Centre as well (though this may not be a significant number of passengers)
 

Scotrail88

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When are the tenders up in the area??
Might be another step for Lothian and also impact Horsburgh and Blue Bus.
Easy way to expand by winning these!
 
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