West Lothian buses

[Busmaddy]

I remember about 5 years ago first had competition on there very busy 38 service which was every 5 mins they got pissed of with city sprinter so at peak times they had a bus every 30 seconds and u no what happened there they went out of business. I think first this time will be up for a very big fight with Lothian in Edinburgh and this time they will stay and fight till Lothian agree to pull out of Bathgate and other areas

 

[Tartanarmy85]

Where are first going to base these 150 buses?

 

[overthewater]

Do you honestly think I would be on here telling people they were being short changed by my employer. Think we both know the answer to that one !

I forgot it was you that made the point, however First are cheaper to start off with, in relation to the weekly and monthly tickets. These cuts are across the broad however passengers were already getting good value.

And as I've said previously, First should just sit tight and hold out WL, coming to Edinburgh will kill any chance of them keeping WL. LC went to WL too late and are just pumping money into an operation that is affordable, but whether it is sustainable is a different question. There's a big difference on Lothian using there Edinburgh profits in WL than the other way around. If First come to Edinburgh LC win. It's as simple as that. If first stay put and hold out they've got the upper hand

I remember about 5 years ago first had competition on there very busy 38 service which was every 5 mins they got pissed of with city sprinter so at peak times they had a bus every 30 seconds and u no what happened there they went out of business. I think first this time will be up for a very big fight with Lothian in Edinburgh and this time they will stay and fight till Lothian agree to pull out of Bathgate and other areas

If First want to go into Edinburgh it will need to pick its battle very careful, and stick to certain runs. Best bet would be the uni - 25 with a very cheap student fair. I would not flood the 150 buses, maybe 20? I don't think LCB would pull out completely, bot if it did I would see First having to put on X18 and 275, for a short while.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

So first will pump hundreds of buses to keep an operation of around 60 buses. Hmmmm sounds 'very' accurate. I cannot emphasise the 'very' enough

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

If First are going to compete with Lothian, then first of, this might be good for the passengers as it might result in lower fares, however there is a chunk of LB passengers who have ridacards, so would not use First services. Just need to look at when First ran the 44 service, to see what happened there. First could 'flood' Edinburgh with 150 buses (questions from others on the vehicle locations, etc..) but it would not really make a dent in Edinburgh even if they did. That may cover a few key routes but not them all. 26 for example needs around 35 buses, 25 with 21 buses. If First took the 22, 25, 26, 34 - those 4 alone would need peak vehicle of 99 buses. Add on the 11 and 16 and it is 146 buses (so they'd have 4 spare for breakdowns). To have any serious effect, First would need to pump 450-500 buses in to Edinburgh and would need to stick at it with much lower fares, and a high reliable service with buses on par if not better in frequency to Lothian. Hard to do on some routes.

If First were to select key routes, and time the buses carefully and lower prices v LB then maybe they'd get some passengers over but not anything to sing home about as, as I said, there is a chunk of passengers with ridacards so they are locked in to the Lothian ecosystem. This is why I am shocked LB have not gave the option to those for LCB to have a ridacard option yet, to lock them in to the ecosystem.

Plus, if First were to do this, and start a full on bus war, Lothian would just go harder in to WL at a faster speed and First would lose in the end.

 

[In Focus]

Heard of a company official from first that there putting 150 buses into Edinburgh to compete against Lothian as they say this time it’s going to be a right bus war and they will keep it going and expand very big into Edinburgh

This won't happen although you are on the right track . Not sure of numbers but you can expect West Lothian to be "flooded " with vehicles and they will pick areas within Edinburgh to put a service into from Livingston , Airport and A70 corridors being most likely at a much reduced fare.
To just go flying into Edinburgh would be a massive blunder that's for sure.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry but this is ridiculous. The idea of 150 vehicles into Edinburgh. Not gonna happen so speculation on this or that service is frankly pointless.

Even flooding of West Lothian is highly unlikely. It’ll be a bit by bit application of pressure to the windpipe

 

[In Focus]

Sorry but this is ridiculous. The idea of 150 vehicles into Edinburgh. Not gonna happen so speculation on this or that service is frankly pointless.

Even flooding of West Lothian is highly unlikely. It’ll be a bit by bit application of pressure to the windpipe

Correct it's not ....would be absolutely crazy.

 

[smtglasgow]

First’s price reductions show the route they intend going down. No doubt they’ll keep amending timetables to get back in front of Lothian, but other than that I doubt we’ll see much.

What we might see is a continuing transition to a single-decker fleet. With Glasgow crying out for Euro 6 vehicles, would a swap of the 66 plate E400s for Euro 5 Enviros (13, or 63 plate) make sense?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

LCB have just released the phase 4 timetables

The 281 is not running as late as I thought, with the last journeys being St John’s at 8:49 and Loganlea at 9:17

There’s a late running journey from Bathgate on the X27 at 10:30 running straight to Edinburgh arriving at 12:04 presumably continuing as a N28 back, the last two journeys afterwards only running as far as Wilkieston/Kirknewton

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Where are First getting the drivers to compete in the city? PMSL

 

[Jordan Adam]

First getting 150 buses to compete in Edinburgh is honestly just hot air... It ain't gonna happen!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Where are First getting the drivers to compete in the city? PMSL

Where are First going to find 150 spare buses in a short period of time?! Took Lothian a little while to get 50 let alone 3 x that. Not saying it's not going to happen as stranger things have happened but it's a massive task to find all those drivers and vehicles, plus no depot so no easy place to fuel up etc... If this were rumoured for WL then I could see it as plausible but to 'flood' Edinburgh, I just can't.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The fact that people would even believe this is laughable.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

LCB have just released the phase 4 timetables

The 281 is not running as late as I thought, with the last journeys being St John’s at 8:49 and Loganlea at 9:17

There’s a late running journey from Bathgate on the X27 at 10:30 running straight to Edinburgh arriving at 12:04 presumably continuing as a N28 back, the last two journeys afterwards only running as far as Wilkieston/Kirknewton

Quite disappointed the 280 wasent timed properly to match connecting with the X18 in Bathgate towards Edinburgh and Blackridge, not so much a ploblem in the mornings but more the evenings

 

[In Focus]

First getting 150 buses to compete in Edinburgh is honestly just hot air... It ain't gonna happen!

Its never going to happen .

 

[Jordan Adam]

Its never going to happen .

15 buses for West Lothian sounds more likely perhaps?

 

[overthewater]

Even that would be to Many to flood the area. Maybe it's 15 to boost the sighthill routes?

 

[In Focus]

15 buses for West Lothian sounds more likely perhaps?

More in line with my thinking 15/20 buses ,and signs are back up for recruitment .

 

[Jordan Adam]

More in line with my thinking 15/20 buses ,and signs are back up for recruitment .

There was talk of getting around 20 new buses for West Lothian, however if i'm being honest unless they plan to expand i can't see much point as the current fleet is very young.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I remember about 5 years ago first had competition on there very busy 38 service which was every 5 mins they got pissed of with city sprinter so at peak times they had a bus every 30 seconds and u no what happened there they went out of business. I think first this time will be up for a very big fight with Lothian in Edinburgh and this time they will stay and fight till Lothian agree to pull out of Bathgate and other areas

Are you talking about the 38/38A/38C/38E route in Glasgow?
I'm afraid Edinburgh is a different proposition altogether. Passengers here will generally avoid non-Lothian services, almost regardless of the fare. And vice versa, First no longer want a slice of the Edinburgh action. I suspect they might be happy to lose the West Lothian bus services that mirror ScotRail routes into Haymarket/Waverley, which they only seemed to retain grudgingly pre-Abellio.
Of course Lothian are still holding their Ridacard trump card. Once they decide which (if any) West Lothian routes they want to keep, and quite possibly reach an informal agreement with First, this can be played and the game may well be over.

 

[Driver362]

The fact that people would even believe this is laughable.

Hence my two previous o/p they wouldn't,couldn't,and won't and also refer to my original posts ,this smacks of let's go fishing see who bites ? Strange as it seems Jordan( my agreeing with you) you have hit the nail on the head !

 

[Siemens Trains]

Hence my two previous o/p they wouldn't,couldn't,and won't and also refer to my original posts ,this smacks of let's go fishing see who bites ? Strange as it seems Jordan( my agreeing with you) you have hit the nail on the head !

I don't think anyone actually took the bait. But people familiar with some other areas of the UK, where competition remains quite cut-throat, might think there's a possibilty of First adopting some Edinburgh routes. Also, there is absolutely no scope for a tickling contest in south east Scotland, where an operator gears up to take business it doesn't want simply to stop a rival from operating on routes it wishes to keep. It's a completely alien concept here.

 

[In Focus]

Are you talking about the 38/38A/38C/38E route in Glasgow?
I'm afraid Edinburgh is a different proposition altogether. Passengers here will generally avoid non-Lothian services, almost regardless of the fare. And vice versa, First no longer want a slice of the Edinburgh action. I suspect they might be happy to lose the West Lothian bus services that mirror ScotRail routes into Haymarket/Waverley, which they only seemed to retain grudgingly pre-Abellio.
Of course Lothian are still holding their Ridacard trump card. Once they decide which (if any) West Lothian routes they want to keep, and quite possibly reach an informal agreement with First, this can be played and the game may well be over.

I think you are over playing the Ridacard thing, quite simply people of West Lothian are travelling into Edinburgh less and less,retail work is not a major factor anymore and most families who moved to West Lothian back in the 70s are now 3 or 4 generations down the line so family visits are not as they were (similar scenario applied to Glasgow) as West Lothian grow a the cities to the East and West become less important and I do not think having a Ridacard would make any real issue into the way West Lothian passengers travel ,certainly not to the extent of "game over" as you put it .

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hence my two previous o/p they wouldn't,couldn't,and won't and also refer to my original posts ,this smacks of let's go fishing see who bites ? Strange as it seems Jordan( my agreeing with you) you have hit the nail on the head !

I wouldn't quite call it a fishing trip - perhaps I'm being more charitable but the poster may well have been sincere in their utterances. Still doesn't get away from them being highly unlikely (akin to myself winning the lottery) though it didn't stop a few people making a few comments.

I think smtglasgow sums things up quite well

First’s price reductions show the route they intend going down. No doubt they’ll keep amending timetables to get back in front of Lothian, but other than that I doubt we’ll see much.

They'll try to box clever with minimal additional resources, trying to starve Lothian out.

 

[overthewater]

Let's hope the cheaper fares also attracts new customers which hopefully replaces the lost income, it could be a win win in the long term.

 

[alchemy]

Let's hope the cheaper fares also attracts new customers which hopefully replaces the lost income, it could be a win win in the long term.

Especially if Lothian take over completly.
Given thst first gave little thought to their customers in East and Midlothian and the Borders, Lothian, being voted one of the best bus companies in the country for a number of years, taking over would indeed be win win.

 

[Driver362]

Fair enough ,maybe I do need to be more charitable TGW. But as a driver of team green ,some of the utterances if heard to date have been nonsense some inflammatory and others that are down right silly but that's my own opinions and not necessarily the ones of the brethren on here

 

[In Focus]

Especially if Lothian take over completly.
Given thst first gave little thought to their customers in East and Midlothian and the Borders, Lothian, being voted one of the best bus companies in the country for a number of years, taking over would indeed be win win.

It wouldn't be a " win win" in West Lothian though and being voted "best bus company" in such a limited area isn't really an achievement, different market in different areas and not so easy to cover up deficiencies when out in other more remote areas.
And not having the field of play all to yourself also raises issues that Lothian haven't had to deal with previously.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fair enough ,maybe I do need to be more charitable TGW. But as a driver of team green ,some of the utterances if heard to date have been nonsense some inflammatory and others that are down right silly but that's my own opinions and not necessarily the ones of the brethren on here

Indeed, and not wishing to indulge in "whatabouterry" but there's been some various partisan views on both sides of the argument, not least the character assassinations of both respective MDs!