Wennington Station.

[Elecman]

Unlike at Giggleswick, one of the problems with having a barrow crossing at Wennington is sighting.
There's a reasonably good view of trains approaching from Bentham but there's an overbridge and a sharp curve in the other direction and don't forget, while there aren't many passenger trains stopping there, other traffic which doesn't stop also uses the line from time to time.

Quite!!

 

[InkyScrolls]

The person with the lollipop, or in this case red and green (or whatever) flags can stop people crossing. Or test trains can be diverted away for a temporary period. Or test train drivers, being well paid professionals, can read their weekly notice and under TSR restrictions stop and whistle at the station. Or test trains can be operated outside the passenger service operating window (potential problem there would be opening times of manual boxes eg at Settle Junction?).

Honestly, 101 reasons why something with minimal risk can't be done instead of finding the one reason why it can and should be done.

As has already been stated this is an area where station foot crossings abound including on the same route at Giggleswick.

Settle Jct. and Carnforth Station 'boxes are both open 24/7, and there are no others on the line; Wennington lies towards the western end of the longest section in the British Isles (24.5 miles).

 

[zwk500]

Westmoreland Gazette article of Tuesday saying disruption until end of 10 Feb.:

Trains running through Lancashire station cancelled

TRAIN services running through Wennington station to Lancaster have been cancelled due to safety checks.

www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk

Is this a firm date for completion of the repairs or just the latest estimate?

(@flitwickbeds tagged for the stations under threat thread).

 

[Halish Railway]

Leeds-Lancs is 1h50, Leeds-Preston 1h45, so it's 15min difference on a through service.

I’d also add that the Bentham line has potential to be sped up if 195s or whatever the Sprinter replacements will be worked the route - A 195’s higher top speed and quicker acceleration can save a few minutes between Leeds and Skipton, as well as between Carnforth and Lancaster.

Wellington seems to be a case of where a less useful station was kept over during times of closing poorly used stations. In hindsight it may have been better to keep Melling open due to its higher quality surrounding roads, with the station being on the A683, serving as a railhead for the villages of Hornby and Kirkby Lonsdale.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Westmoreland Gazette article of Tuesday saying disruption until end of 10 Feb.:

Trains running through Lancashire station cancelled

TRAIN services running through Wennington station to Lancaster have been cancelled due to safety checks.

www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk

Is this a firm date for completion of the repairs or just the latest estimate?

(@flitwickbeds tagged for the stations under threat thread).

Just an estimate at this stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2023 ==

I’d also add that the Bentham line has potential to be sped up if 195s or whatever the Sprinter replacements will be worked the route - A 195’s higher top speed and quicker acceleration can save a few minutes between Leeds and Skipton, as well as between Carnforth and Lancaster.

I highly doubt 195s would speed things up; the current timings between Leeds and Skipton are constrained by the frequent electric services on the line. Furthermore the available paths on the WCML tend to lead to several minutes of booked standing at Carnforth, so any time saved that far would be for naught.

[Wennington] seems to be a case of where a less useful station was kept over during times of closing poorly used stations. In hindsight it may have been better to keep Melling open due to its higher quality surrounding roads, with the station being on the A683, serving as a railhead for the villages of Hornby and Kirkby Lonsdale.

Indeed - even Arkholme would have been preferable, given the size of the village.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed - even Arkholme would have been preferable, given the size of the village.

And Lower Bentham, though that closed a very long time ago, not during Beeching.

Clapham Jn (!) seems the most pointless. I guess it was one like e.g. Swanbourne, distant from the village but used for farmers to take their produce to by horse and cart but not really for a public transport purpose?

 

[InkyScrolls]

And Lower Bentham, though that closed a very long time ago, not during Beeching.

Clapham Jn (!) seems the most pointless. I guess it was one like e.g. Swanbourne, distant from the village but used for farmers to take their produce to by horse and cart but not really for a public transport purpose?

Strangely Clapham is actually busier than Wennington, albeit marginally; it's popular with walkers travelling from there to Ribblehead via Ingleborough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Strangely Clapham is actually busier than Wennington, albeit marginally; it's popular with walkers travelling from there to Ribblehead via Ingleborough.

Interesting. I guess that's the only group of people who will happily walk 2 miles to the station after the pub/cafe in Clapham itself (which is quite nice).

 

[urbophile]

I wonder if Wennington was kept because, pre-Beeching, it was the junction between the line to Morecambe via Lancaster Green Ayre, and the current one to Carnforth. I think some trains even used to split there. Maybe that's what made it seem more 'important' even when it was no longer a junction.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I wonder if Wennington was kept because, pre-Beeching, it was the junction between the line to Morecambe via Lancaster Green Ayre, and the current one to Carnforth. I think some trains even used to split there. Maybe that's what made it seem more 'important' even when it was no longer a junction.

That may be it. The 'box itself didn't shut till 2004 (I believe?).

 

[zwk500]

That may be it. The 'box itself didn't shut till 2004 (I believe?).

The box and it's block section were probably more important than what trains used to do.

 

[Pinus contorta]

That may be it. The 'box itself didn't shut till 2004 (I believe?).

Did it get mothballed soon after when Railtrack took over? I have a vague feeling it went completely about the same time when the through lines at Carnforth were lifted in the Northern Spirit days.

 

[Gloster]

Did it get mothballed soon after when Railtrack took over? I have a vague feeling it went completely about the same time when the through lines at Carnforth were lifted in the Northern Spirit days.

The box seems to have ceased being regularly manned in 1988 and by 1990 it only had a Home and Distant on each road. It was only closed in 2006.

 

[D6130]

I’d also add that the Bentham line has potential to be sped up if 195s or whatever the Sprinter replacements will be worked the route - A 195’s higher top speed and quicker acceleration can save a few minutes between Leeds and Skipton, as well as between Carnforth and Lancaster.

It would cost millions to upgrade the line from it's current 60 mph speed limit to anything higher. More than three quarters of the track is jointed bull head or early flat bottom rail on rapidly-rotting wooden sleepers, all laid in shallow ballast, much of which is poorly-drained. On top of that (pardon the pun!) much of the line consists of a series of relatively-sharp reverse curves which - even allowing for total relaying, reballasting and re-draining - are not suitable for higher speeds. There are only three relatively short straight-ish stretches where higher speeds might just be possible with relaying:

Settle Junction-Giggleswick (no use because of the Gigglewick station stop)

Bentham-Wennington

and

Melling Tunnel (West portal)-about a mile West of Arkholme

I suspect that the fragile state of the two Lune viaducts would preclude raising the speed limit on the latter section.

This from an intimate knowledge of the line gained from 20 years of driving over it....and nothing has changed since I retired ten years ago other than a bit of spot resleepering and a few tonnes of extra ballast tipped onto some of the rougher sections.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I suspect that the fragile state of the two Lune viaducts would preclude raising the speed limit on the latter section.

This from an intimate knowledge of the line gained from 20 years of driving over it....and nothing has changed since I retired ten years ago other than a bit of spot resleepering and a few tonnes of extra ballast tipped onto some of the rougher sections.

It's in as poor state now as it was a decade ago, and especially bad between Bentham and Wennington.

While the S&C could, for the most part handle 75 mph running (for example), the Bentham Line largely cannot.

 

[Ken H]

It's in as poor state now as it was a decade ago, and especially bad between Bentham and Wennington.

While the S&C could, for the most part handle 75 mph running (for example), the Bentham Line largely cannot.

If you are going to look at linespeeds then between Skipton and Settle Jct is the place to look. It would benefit more trains. Surely 70 for sprinters and 60 for everything else is worth a look.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder if there's any main line track that's in reasonaby good nic, but not quite up to high speed standard that could be re-purposed for the (Little North Western route.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

There were similar problems with some of the bridges on the Cumbrian Coast.
Aspatria was closed temporarily for repair, but the bridges at Flimby, Wigton and Sellafield were dismantled, removed from site, shot-blasted and repaired and then returned to the stations. An expensive job, but I’m assuming they will last another century if they’re maintained properly.

 

[D6130]

I wonder if there's any main line track that's in reasonaby good nic, but not quite up to high speed standard that could be re-purposed for the (Little North Western route.

When the late 1990s-vintage steel-sleepered continuously-welded rail that had been installed by Railtrack on the Settle & Carlisle on scarified ballast had to be replaced after less than ten years, I - and many other people with greater railway engineering knowledge and experience than me - suggested that it should be reused on the much more lightly-trafficked Bentham Line. However, apparently there was not even sufficient money in the budget for such a low-cost renewal scheme. IIRC, Railtrack were not very good at listening to people with railway engineering knowledge and experience.

 

[yorksrob]

When the late 1990s-vintage steel-sleepered continuously-welded rail that had been installed by Railtrack on the Settle & Carlisle on scarified ballast had to be replaced after less than ten years, I - and many other people with greater railway engineering knowledge and experience than me - suggested that it should be reused on the much more lightly-trafficked Bentham Line. However, apparently there was not even sufficient money in the budget for such a low-cost renewal scheme. IIRC, railtrack were not very good at listening to people with railway engineering knowledge and experience.

We'll all have to continue bumping along then !

 

[InkyScrolls]

Despite my assumptions regarding Network Rail's aversion to crossings, one is apparently to be put in at Wennington, with the footbridge to be removed.

Source: A contact within NR.

 

[zwk500]

Despite my assumptions regarding Network Rail's aversion to crossings, one is apparently to be put in at Wennington, with the footbridge to be removed.

Source: A contact within NR.

This is quite remarkable. Temporary job whilst they fix the footbridge or just giving up and accepting the inevitable?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is quite remarkable. Temporary job whilst they fix the footbridge or just giving up and accepting the inevitable?

Quite sensible, as it will also make the station more accessible (though I guess less accessible to a few people e.g. blind people who can't look to see if a train is coming).

 

[zwk500]

Quite sensible, as it will also make the station more accessible (though I guess less accessible to a few people e.g. blind people who can't look to see if a train is coming).

I quite agree. Just it flies in the face of NR's prevailing insistence that no new crossings, at all. It seems madness to put up vast ramps or expensive lifts for a station with passenger numbers in the low double digits per day. Europe manages fine with flat crossings.

 

[InkyScrolls]

This is quite remarkable. Temporary job whilst they fix the footbridge or just giving up and accepting the inevitable?

Permanent, apparently. I was quite surprised myself!

 

[zwk500]

Permanent, apparently. I was quite surprised myself!

This will be worth a watch - could save the country quite a lot in AFA money if the quietest stations can get barrow crossings back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This will be worth a watch - could save the country quite a lot in AFA money if the quietest stations can get barrow crossings back.

Mind always boggled as to why the Ulverston one was removed. Because of its layout and the service, trains stopped before it other than freight, but you could put a 5mph PSR on that. They do make sense on quiet lines.

 

[zwk500]

Mind always boggled as to why the Ulverston one was removed. Because of its layout and the service, trains stopped before it other than freight, but you could put a 5mph PSR on that. They do make sense on quiet lines.

I wouldn't advocate any crossings that needed PSRs imposing to make them work, that doesn't make sense. But where you have a sparse train service and good sightlines, they should be considered.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I wouldn't advocate any crossings that needed PSRs imposing to make them work, that doesn't make sense. But where you have a sparse train service and good sightlines, they should be considered.

The situation with Ulverston is an interesting one; the limit is 20 mph on the Up line due to curvature anyway so it wouldn't be too much of a change.

 

[30907]

The situation with Ulverston is an interesting one; the limit is 20 mph on the Up line due to curvature anyway so it wouldn't be too much of a change.

On the down it's a bit more isn't it, and that's the line to cross.

Back to Wennington - IIRC the curve is 20mph, and the only non-stopping services are the WCRC ones, not generally, so less of a problem. I presume the crossing will be at the Settle Jn end.