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Wellglade Group

Mugby

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Versa 846 working the 1710 Swift to Uttoxeter tonight (Tues) only got as far as Friargate Bridge before it expired. I walked past it just as it had been hooked up to a recovery truck for a suspended tow job at 1900.
As the 1710 is the last journey of the evening to Uttoxeter, I hope a replacement was provided for any through passengers!

On another note, I see that some H1s and Nines have been leaving Derby via Albert Street, Victoria Street, Friargate and right onto the Inner Ring Road at Ford Street Junction. No mention of this in Traffic Updates, is the usual route via Derwent Street and Phoenix Street not available at the moment?
 
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joieman

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Loughborough
If it's of any interest to anyone, there's a chance the Skylink Nottingham service may be altered to serve the Isley Woodhouse development if it does go underway, as is indicated by the Nottinghamshire County Council. https://plans.nwleics.gov.uk/public...TM-NOTTINGHAMSHIRE_COUNTY_COUNCIL-1184857.pdf
Link is broken :(

The planners do quite frequently make ridiculous suggestions to divert existing interurban bus services into new developments. Arriva's 29s in Coalville have been virtually murdered by going round the houses again and again! I wonder, though, if developing Isley Woodhouse would make a route from East Midlands Airport/Castle Donington to Coalville in place of the 125 viable again.
 

BusLink61

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Lichfield
Yes not been a good couple of days at Derby. I think only the villager and red arrow have had a full service. There was a picture on Facebook of Mickleover 315 helping on the comet last night.
I’ve noticed Harlequin Solo 494 has been put onto the V3 this evening, the same in fact as yesterday.

As it’s done two days in service for longer, it’s going to wear it out more from covering other vehicles. The Harlequin is down to one vehicle itself which I forgot to include in the list.

Volvo 715 was tracking on the X38 and the V3 last week, but it was just for the day, it’s tracking back at Kinch now.
 

Davidsb3

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Derby, UK
Versa 846 working the 1710 Swift to Uttoxeter tonight (Tues) only got as far as Friargate Bridge before it expired. I walked past it just as it had been hooked up to a recovery truck for a suspended tow job at 1900.
As the 1710 is the last journey of the evening to Uttoxeter, I hope a replacement was provided for any through passengers!

On another note, I see that some H1s and Nines have been leaving Derby via Albert Street, Victoria Street, Friargate and right onto the Inner Ring Road at Ford Street Junction. No mention of this in Traffic Updates, is the usual route via Derwent Street and Phoenix Street not available at the moment?
The Comet, 6X, H1 and The Nines are diverting via Victoria street etc on outbound journeys because Phoenix Street is shut for 4 weeks. No notice was needed because no stops are being missed only takes an extra 2 mins or so to get to Chester green.

491 didn't last long due to its wipers deciding to go on strike and stop working.
 

YX73OUB

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East Midlands
Just for you @Trainman40083 277 has made it on to connect today

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Just for you @Trainman40083 277 has had the pleasure of connects today and 483 is on threes
 

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Trainman40083

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The Comet, 6X, H1 and The Nines are diverting via Victoria street etc on outbound journeys because Phoenix Street is shut for 4 weeks. No notice was needed because no stops are being missed only takes an extra 2 mins or so to get to Chester green.

491 didn't last long due to its wipers deciding to go on strike and stop working.
I think we should have a poll to see how long people think Solos 491 and 492 will go on. Today, Wednesday, I'd not long arrived in Derby and 491 and 492 appeared. They will go on, and on, and on.. Reminds me of Solo 462 not that long ago.

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It's not exclusive to Derby or older buses - we've had 7 nines out of 14 off over the last two days & 5 threes off, too. Even a 90 missing at one point today. The weather has really taken it out of our fleet and the depot being so exposed to the elements doesn't help in the mornings when it comes to getting services going.
Never had that problem when they parked buses in Sutton Road garage. Have they knocked it down yet?

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Versa 846 working the 1710 Swift to Uttoxeter tonight (Tues) only got as far as Friargate Bridge before it expired. I walked past it just as it had been hooked up to a recovery truck for a suspended tow job at 1900.
As the 1710 is the last journey of the evening to Uttoxeter, I hope a replacement was provided for any through passengers!

On another note, I see that some H1s and Nines have been leaving Derby via Albert Street, Victoria Street, Friargate and right onto the Inner Ring Road at Ford Street Junction. No mention of this in Traffic Updates, is the usual route via Derwent Street and Phoenix Street not available at the moment?
The only other alternative would be Derwent Street, Inner Ring Road, Chapel Street to Inner Ring Road. Now I saw a Nines on Derwent Street. Missed the turn so went to the Inner Ring Road. A few minutes later it came down Full Street and turned into Derwent Street. I didn't see it a third time. What on earth are they doing in the Phoenix Street area, that takes so long?.
 

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Trainman40083

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Sutton Road is still standing - unless it came down this morning!
For some reason I lost interest in the depot there, when buses started getting paint white with stripes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Versa 846 working the 1710 Swift to Uttoxeter tonight (Tues) only got as far as Friargate Bridge before it expired. I walked past it just as it had been hooked up to a recovery truck for a suspended tow job at 1900.
As the 1710 is the last journey of the evening to Uttoxeter, I hope a replacement was provided for any through passengers!

On another note, I see that some H1s and Nines have been leaving Derby via Albert Street, Victoria Street, Friargate and right onto the Inner Ring Road at Ford Street Junction. No mention of this in Traffic Updates, is the usual route via Derwent Street and Phoenix Street not available at the moment?
I think Versa 846 likes Friargate, on the Swift. Bustimes suggests it got that far on the 05.41 to Uttoxeter this morning, then went back to depot.
 
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Trainman40083

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Link doesn’t work but as a regular user of the route this will make reliability even worse than it already is.
Surely they will just shave 5 minutes off the existing timetable.. Deliver more with existing resources, sweat the assets. Blame traffic. ;)

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Just for you @Trainman40083 277 has made it on to connect today

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Just for you @Trainman40083 277 has had the pleasure of connects today and 483 is on threes
Well, 483 was on Threes. Seems to have been replaced by 850.....483 needs TLC, if it is to stay in service for a few more years.
 
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Trainman40083

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Huh, strange, seems to only work when you open it directly through the website. Here's a screencap of what I'm referring to:

View attachment 195446
I guess to do that, the relevant Council would have to fund additional buses, drivers etc. But the extended journey time might have an adverse effect on existing users. I must look where this place is. Never heard of it

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I guess to do that, the relevant Council would have to fund additional buses, drivers etc. But the extended journey time might have an adverse effect on existing users. I must look where this place is. Never heard of it
Oh there it is ..
 

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Travelmonkey

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classic S106 play, a stand alone route would be better rather than beating a dead horse of a already long convalouted route.

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they'd be better diverting in Diamond's 9 if they are gonna do anything looking at that image especially now thats been trunkated from Queens hospital. or a better yet idea X9 or 9A one serves Melbourne the other this devlopment. either way it's good their thinking public transit but it does seem like it will cause more problems than it solves,
 

Trainman40083

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classic S106 play, a stand alone route would be better rather than beating a dead horse of a already long convalouted route.

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they'd be better diverting in Diamond's 9 if they are gonna do anything looking at that image especially now thats been trunkated from Queens hospital. or a better yet idea X9 or 9A one serves Melbourne the other this devlopment. either way it's good their thinking public transit but it does seem like it will cause more problems than it solves,
Yes, but certain companies will chase section 106 money. Then underdeliver. Certainty of income in uncertain times.
 

joieman

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classic S106 play, a stand alone route would be better rather than beating a dead horse of a already long convalouted route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

they'd be better diverting in Diamond's 9 if they are gonna do anything looking at that image especially now thats been trunkated from Queens hospital. or a better yet idea X9 or 9A one serves Melbourne the other this devlopment. either way it's good their thinking public transit but it does seem like it will cause more problems than it solves,
Or extending the Skylink Express instead, as it would be a faster route into Nottingham and would serve the entire airport and EMG in one go.
 

Trainman40083

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Or extending the Skylink Express instead, as it would be a faster route into Nottingham and would serve the entire airport and EMG in one go.
I guess it depends upon what frequency of service the Section 106 grant requires. Is half hourly or hourly okay? So what happens if the passenger usage isn't there, by the time the grant runs out?
 

38291018

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Out curiosity how does section 106 work (never really looked into it) like do operators bid by saying to developers they will serve this place x amount a hour ect then developers pick and choose out the operators who are winning to provide and award and pay that operator or do they just approach operators and ask them to divert a route and pay up to them or something else
 

Trainman40083

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Out curiosity how does section 106 work (never really looked into it) like do operators bid by saying to developers they will serve this place x amount a hour ect then developers pick and choose out the operators who are winning to provide and award and pay that operator or do they just approach operators and ask them to divert a route and pay up to them or something else
Now this will be an interesting answer. Does the section 106 money go direct or through a Council. How does the provider know that the level of service has been delivered (or multiple journeys missed, but with no penalty)?
 

38291018

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Huh, strange, seems to only work when you open it directly through the website. Here's a screencap of what I'm referring to:

View attachment 195446
Couldn't find that attachment specifically however I assume what I have found is a earlier document noting skylink Nottingham already serves diseworth and long watton and that there should be atleast 1 service from here to long eaton, east mids parkway or loughborough.
 

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Trainman40083

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Couldn't find that attachment specifically however I assume what I have found is a earlier document noting skylink Nottingham already serves diseworth and long watton and that there should be atleast 1 service from here to long eaton, east mids parkway or loughborough.
I thought Skylink Nottingham only served East Midlands Airport/Gateway with an hourly service to Coalville nowdays.. Skylink Derby serves Loughborough
 

Travelmonkey

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I guess it depends upon what frequency of service the Section 106 grant requires. Is half hourly or hourly okay? So what happens if the passenger usage isn't there, by the time the grant runs out?
route is cut back or entierley withdrawn, there is a portion of use it or loose it. it's a bit like the Spondon flyer there was outrage when that wasn't put back after covid but if it was well patronised it would have survived the cull. not that that matters they have a arriva circular now, not sure how well used it is though,

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Out curiosity how does section 106 work (never really looked into it) like do operators bid by saying to developers they will serve this place x amount a hour ect then developers pick and choose out the operators who are winning to provide and award and pay that operator or do they just approach operators and ask them to divert a route and pay up to them or something else
it's all dependant the 19A diamond (and Midland classic prior) was funded through the external mercia park site and was exempt from the fare cap. although intrestingly that route still alows ENCT use when in valid time.

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Couldn't find that attachment specifically however I assume what I have found is a earlier document noting skylink Nottingham already serves diseworth and long watton and that there should be atleast 1 service from here to long eaton, east mids parkway or loughborough.
East Midlands parkway really does need a connecting bus. it's a white elephant for the airport. hopfully this and whatever happens to the ajacent defunct power plant means that the station is more than just a minor call with some local tangible benifits.
 
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Dwarfer1979

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Leicester
Out curiosity how does section 106 work (never really looked into it) like do operators bid by saying to developers they will serve this place x amount a hour ect then developers pick and choose out the operators who are winning to provide and award and pay that operator or do they just approach operators and ask them to divert a route and pay up to them or something else
Depends on circumstances but essentially Section 106 is a planning condition - so the developer offers, or the planning authority requires, a certain amount of money to be spent on specified things to compensate or support the development going in. Sometimes it is funding a public transport link, sometimes ticketing but it, or a similar section rule, could include other features.

What generally happens is the developer would have involved a consultant early in the process who will approach local operators to give options and prices for how to serve the estate so by the time the planning permission is applied for they will normally have a decent idea that they can do what they say and often probably have an operator lined up to run the service when the building has reached the required stage. There isn't, I think, any actual requirement for operators to be consulted so it is possible for a developer to say they will divert a service without finding out whether the operator will do so in practice or what it will cost. Generally speaking, where a bus service is required, I think the base service level (frequency, day length & days of operation) will be specified in the Section 106 agreement that is attached to the planning permission but most developers these days will have checked and agreed with an operator before signing the planning permission

It used to be, and in some counties still is the case, that the local authority would take the section 106 money from the developer and tender the service themselves, which was often where the details between the original plan and practice would end up different (in detail but to the specified frequency etc) as no one had talked to the operators on the ground first about what they can/would do, but we are increasingly seeing direct relationships with the developer representatives which sees us involved much earlier in the process.

Now this will be an interesting answer. Does the section 106 money go direct or through a Council. How does the provider know that the level of service has been delivered (or multiple journeys missed, but with no penalty)?
As I said above, it varies from area to area and developer to developer how the funding is routed but more developers are managing it directly (or via their own appointed consultants). If the council is co-ordinating the developer relies on the council management and has little to do with it (beyond making sure the money is spent on the specified thing as if the council never gets round to doing it in the specified time the money returns to the developer and I have heard of that happening due to council ineptitude). Where there is a direct contract between developer and operator then they will often have procedures for reporting and monitoring this sort of thing just like any normal contract, though it is often less regular than the sort of monthly council reporting (my colleague has just done such a report for a Section 106 developer led contract covering the first 3 months of the service).
So what happens if the passenger usage isn't there, by the time the grant runs out?
As Travelmonkey said, if the funding runs out and the passenger numbers haven't become commercial the service probably ends though it may be that it the service level reduced to a viable level, merged into another service rather than being standalone or funding moves to coming from the general council funding pot if they feel a service is an ongoing need. This often happens with the smaller developments where the number of residents is never high enough to support the service alone or ones with a high proportion of more expensive homes where bus usage is always lower per-head. If the service is being provided by diverting a passing service there is more likelihood of the link surviving as the cost of serving the development is more hidden in the wider route costings so the loss of the developer funding may not tip it over to a loss making service (or the extra cost of serving it is marginal and removing would save little or nothing) whilst a dedicated service needs to stand on its own.

East Midlands parkway really does need a connecting bus. it's a white elephant for the airport. hopfully this and whatever happens to the ajacent defunct power plant means that the station is more than just a minor call with some local tangible benifits.
The problem, as I understand it, is the road layout and access time from the main road. Reportedly Trent did consider it for the Skylink Express when that was being planned but getting off the A453 to the station and back on added too much time to be attractive for the core through passengers. Just a quick run on Google Maps suggests 5/6-mins onto westbound journeys (there are 5 roundabouts to be navigated, most twice to get on/off) whilst eastbound is shorter it still looks like 4-mins extra or so.
 

derbyveg

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Derby seems to be struggling with mileage today...

Allestree - 3/5
Swift - 4/5
Xprss38 - 4/5
Villager - 4/5
Harlequin - 1/2
6.2 - 1/2
6.3 - 1/2
Mickleover - 8/9
Comet - 2/3

This is becoming an extremely regular occurrence.. the 'really good bus company strikes again.
 

ExTrentBarton

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30 Jan 2025
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Derby
Derby seems to be struggling with mileage today...

Allestree - 3/5
Swift - 4/5
Xprss38 - 4/5
Villager - 4/5
Harlequin - 1/2
6.2 - 1/2
6.3 - 1/2
Mickleover - 8/9
Comet - 2/3

This is becoming an extremely regular occurrence.. the 'really good bus company strikes again.
That’s not actually too bad by the standards of this week. I believe Derby were something like 16 buses short of the PVR on Monday, so things are actually improving!
 

Trainman40083

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route is cut back or entierley withdrawn, there is a portion of use it or loose it. it's a bit like the Spondon flyer there was outrage when that wasn't put back after covid but if it was well patronised it would have survived the cull. not that that matters they have a arriva circular now, not sure how well used it is though,

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it's all dependant the 19A diamond (and Midland classic prior) was funded through the external mercia park site and was exempt from the fare cap. although intrestingly that route still alows ENCT use when in valid time.

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East Midlands parkway really does need a connecting bus. it's a white elephant for the airport. hopfully this and whatever happens to the ajacent defunct power plant means that the station is more than just a minor call with some local tangible benifits.
I'd suggest the Spondon Flyer was run down before COVID. It was common to see queues in the bus station and missing buses, for various reasons. It doesn't take long, before those with alternatives, walk away and use those alternatives. Of course the buses branded for the Spondon Flyer were welcome elsewhere. I'd suggest that had their not been cutbacks to routes that failed to deliver the required return, we might not even have the routes we are today. East Midlands Airport did once have a bus service to the Airport. I don't think it was well used, so it bit the dust too. I guess for some, they just used other bus services to the airport, such as Skylink.

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Derby seems to be struggling with mileage today...

Allestree - 3/5
Swift - 4/5
Xprss38 - 4/5
Villager - 4/5
Harlequin - 1/2
6.2 - 1/2
6.3 - 1/2
Mickleover - 8/9
Comet - 2/3

This is becoming an extremely regular occurrence.. the 'really good bus company strikes again.
To be fair, Allestree only got up to 3 buses when they took 329? off the X38.. 265 went for a new engine at Cummins. Came back before Christmas, not moved since. Must have another fault. 267 gave up yesterday. No idea why, but there was diesel on the road at one bus stop. 269 may have given up today. PVR for the Mickleover is 8. There was 5 on the other day. 3 of them were following each other . When you mention the Really Good Bus Company, I think you meant someone else. Anyone else.
 

Trainman40083

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I'd suggest the Spondon Flyer was run down before COVID. It was common to see queues in the bus station and missing buses, for various reasons. It doesn't take long, before those with alternatives, walk away and use those alternatives. Of course the buses branded for the Spondon Flyer were welcome elsewhere. I'd suggest that had their not been cutbacks to routes that failed to deliver the required return, we might not even have the routes we are today. East Midlands Airport did once have a bus service to the Airport. I don't think it was well used, so it bit the dust too. I guess for some, they just used other bus services to the airport, such as Skylink.

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To be fair, Allestree only got up to 3 buses when they took 329? off the X38.. 265 went for a new engine at Cummins. Came back before Christmas, not moved since. Must have another fault. 267 gave up yesterday. No idea why, but there was diesel on the road at one bus stop. 269 may have given up today. PVR for the Mickleover is 8. There was 5 on the other day. 3 of them were following each other . When you mention the Really Good Bus Company, I think you meant someone else. Anyone else.
Amendment. Solo 492 seemingly worked a short Allestree diagram to the Jonty Farmer around 07.10.

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the cycle lane works near Burton station won't be helping the X38 & V1 either,
At least there is 4 Trentbarton buses on the X38 today. Explains why 329 got taken off
 

Travelmonkey

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Amendment. Solo 492 seemingly worked a short Allestree diagram to the Jonty Farmer around 07.10.

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At least there is 4 Trentbarton buses on the X38 today. Explains why 329 got taken off
of the corridors to have issues from a passenger prespective the X38 will be lower on the list as people will just use the Arriva offering although could mean arguments on return. it is a shame that the collaboaration isn't there for the route. will be intresting to see how it works out for both Arriva & Trent with the ever looming franchising prospects.
 

43055

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the cycle lane works near Burton station won't be helping the X38 & V1 either,
It doesn't help that the temporary lights are not linked up with each other. For the villager it has generally taken around 10 mins to get through. The X38 was apparently taking 45 mins on Monday which is why it is now going via Horninglow Street and Guild Street to Sainsburys. Last night was not good as a certain bridge was causing problems on the A38 again meaning much of Derby Road and Stretton was a car park.
 

Trainman40083

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of the corridors to have issues from a passenger prespective the X38 will be lower on the list as people will just use the Arriva offering although could mean arguments on return. it is a shame that the collaboaration isn't there for the route. will be intresting to see how it works out for both Arriva & Trent with the ever looming franchising prospects.
I could suggest that Trentbarton may throw scarce resources to overbus the X38, because of the competition from Arriva. But to understand deliver, probably pushes passengers to Arriva, or the car, maybe the train. At one time, the odd bus on one route would be missing. Now multiple buses on many routes. I've heard multiple excuses about the reasons. I have the option to use reliable operators, and other options. I feel sorry for those with no choice. I feel sorry for the drivers, trying to provide a service without a bus. But how will it end? I could suggest it had never been easier not to use a bus. Ah 15 minute Cities where I can walk everywhere I need to, most days.

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It doesn't help that the temporary lights are not linked up with each other. For the villager it has generally taken around 10 mins to get through. The X38 was apparently taking 45 mins on Monday which is why it is now going via Horninglow Street and Guild Street to Sainsburys. Last night was not good as a certain bridge was causing problems on the A38 again meaning much of Derby Road and Stretton was a car park.
I had a look at a whole V1 diagram yesterday. Beats watching the TV adverts. The first bus on the day ex Derby ran late from Derby. The bus got later and later until about 18.00 when a service was missed. Maybe the driver checks /preparation at Meadow Road is taking longer this winter (or drivers getting food parcels and blankets). Are the timetables actually achievable on an average day?
 

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