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Website members obsession with the Daily Mail

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Xenophon PCDGS

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I have noticed a perceived need from some of the more left-wing oriented website members to use the Daily Mail as something to use in terms of their perceived dislike of that particular newspaper. Never having bought a copy of that newspaper in all my 70 years, I wondered as to how it would be performing in actuality in terms of daily sales and was quite surprised to find the following 2015 daily statistics:-

The Sun.......1,978,702
Daily Mail.....1,688,727
Daily Mirror.....992,235

Statistical returns for the 1950 to 1999 period show that in those days, the Daily Mirror sold many more daily copies than the Daily Mail, so is there any reason why the Daily Mirror readership fell so alarmingly from the start of the 21st century?
 
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deltic

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Since 2000 daily sales of the Sun have fallen by 1.6m, Mirror by 1.3m and the Mail by 0.8m. Sales of the "quality" papers have generally collapsed by a half over the same period.

So its not the case why have Mirror sales collapsed so much (they have fallen marginally less than other papers) but why has the Daily Mail's sales fallen less fast than other papers.

It is in reality a good newspaper while it makes clear its political viewpoint it still reports news relatively straight forwardly - and it has a large female readership due to its sections aimed at that market.

I look at the front pages of all the papers on the BBC every day and it is certainly the most serious of all the tabloids.

The paper I never understand why it still exists is the Express - its front page revolves around 4 themes, extreme predictions about the weather, an obsession with house prices, some ill informed comment about some medical breakthrough or disaster and migration.
 

theblackwatch

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The paper I never understand why it still exists is the Express - its front page revolves around 4 themes, extreme predictions about the weather, an obsession with house prices, some ill informed comment about some medical breakthrough or disaster and migration.

Make that 5 - you have forgotten to include Diana!
 

deltic

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Make that 5 - you have forgotten to include Diana!

I may have missed some but I dont think Diana has appeared on the front page for at least a year - seems to have been displaced by migration/EU
 

richw

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I would never buy a copy of the papers listed, or any to be honest, however I will browse their websites for any stories of interest to me.
 

Haydn1971

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The Sun.......1,978,702

Daily Mail.....1,688,727

Daily Mirror.....992,235


There is of course the free tabloid phenomenon in recent years...

Metro 1,335,000
LES 900,000

Given that all of these papers except the Mirror have a degree of conservative bias, that somewhat limits circulation... As a lifelong supporter of social justice, I wouldn't give money to any of the tabloids, as they are all guilty of obscene distortion of news, Gotcha !, Hillsborough and the Miners dispute in particular spring to mind with Murdoch's finest !

Add to that the digital age where an increasing number of younger people catch their news online, via 24hr news channels and the explosion of news via social media (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Forums etc), the age of the tabloid is thankfully coming to an end and it's becoming increasingly easy to debunk wild tabloid rubbish with a quick google.
 

thejuggler

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Metro is owned by The Mail. Sales are showing how media is changing, click bait is now the order of the day, tempting headlines on web sites to get you to delve deeper.

I don't know anyone under the age of 40, maybe even 50 who buy a national newspaper on a regular basis.

In the 60s and 70s dad was an ardent Mirror buyer. He now buys the Mail, even he can't explain why, but I wish he wouldn't.
 

Domh245

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I imagine the relatively small fall in readership of the mail is to do with it's demographic. Most of the Mail readers that I know are quite old, and whilst I won't call them technophobes, they don't tend to use computers or smartphones very much. Conversely, people who read the Sun tended to be a bit younger, and more likely to switch to online news
 

me123

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It is in reality a good newspaper while it makes clear its political viewpoint it still reports news relatively straight forwardly - and it has a large female readership due to its sections aimed at that market.

I really struggle to consider the Mail a "good" newspaper. I will admit that it has good elements to it. It's done a good job of holding its own in the move to online media, and its website is one of the most visited news websites in the UK (and it's done a good job generating revenue in the US market). I don't agree with the paper's political view, but I'd agree that it is generally consistent.

That's about all the positives I can really say about the Mail.

The editorial stance of the paper is frankly disgusting many areas. The attitude towards asylum seekers by the Mail is, of course, well documented. It echoes of the Mail's views in the 1930s about Jewish people fleeing Nazi Germany. There's near daily articles insulting me as a Scottish person based on my nationality. The Mail's reaction to the Junior Doctor's strike was to point out that some junior doctors even go on holiday sometimes. (In the interest of fairness, The Sun ran a similar article). Mail columnists routinely claim that Climate Change doesn't exist, and have also claimed that Stephen Gately's death was linked to his sexuality (Jan Moir), and that Japanese victims of the 2011 tsunami do not deserve our condolences because of WW2 (Richard Littlejohn), to take just a small sample of the despicable views published in the newspaper.

The Daily Mail has every right to publish this bile as far as I'm concerned. They, quite rightly, point to the freedom of the press. I'll use similar freedom of speech to criticise the newspaper. And I would like to point out that any newspaper has the same rights, and that every one of us has the same rights to criticise all of them.

What I find more concerning is the paper's tendency to publish utter lies. And they get away with it. For example, shortly before Romanian and Bulgarian citizens were entitled to work in the UK (on 1st Jan 2014), the Daily Mail made a specific claim that every flight and bus between these countries and the UK was fully booked by migrants coming to work in the country on or after the 1st of January. The reality was far from the truth - demand had not significantly increased, airlines had not increased their flight schedules, and the vast majority of people traveling were not new migrants! (Source). Amongst other lies told include the saga about the Liverpool Care Pathway, the majority of articles about this published by the Mail being simply fallacious. However, the frankly ludicrous article regarding sick babies being euthanised (now removed, but I can't find a retraction) has to be the pinnacle of their nonsense. I could go on. It appears to be commonplace that the Mail manipulates and fabricates facts to support its journalistic standpoint. Again, recent examples include the junior doctors' strike. Claims of an 11% pay rise are utter lies, as it's been well documented that this is on the background of a pay cut and increase in antisocial working hours! As are claims that the strike is about providing 24/7 service - as any junior doctor will tell you, they already provide 24/7 service!

Now, of course the Mail is not alone in this practice. Journalists on a whole have shown little to no interest in self-regulation. But the Mail seems to be particularly prone to making up it stories.

The quality of articles on the Mail's website are dire. A quick look at today's selection of trash includes:
Maths "Magic!"
Can YOU spot the panda in the zig-zags?
"Proof" that men do nothing at the weekend

The paper I never understand why it still exists is the Express - its front page revolves around 4 themes, extreme predictions about the weather, an obsession with house prices, some ill informed comment about some medical breakthrough or disaster and migration.

The only explanation for the continued existence of the Express as far as I can see is the dementia market. Their health "articles" are almost always "aspirin causes/cures Alzheimer's", and people with dementia don't remember reading the same article last Tuesday.
 

muddythefish

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I really struggle to consider the Mail a "good" newspaper. I will admit that it has good elements to it. It's done a good job of holding its own in the move to online media, and its website is one of the most visited news websites in the UK (and it's done a good job generating revenue in the US market). I don't agree with the paper's political view, but I'd agree that it is generally consistent.

That's about all the positives I can really say about the Mail.

The editorial stance of the paper is frankly disgusting many areas. The attitude towards asylum seekers by the Mail is, of course, well documented. It echoes of the Mail's views in the 1930s about Jewish people fleeing Nazi Germany. There's near daily articles insulting me as a Scottish person based on my nationality. The Mail's reaction to the Junior Doctor's strike was to point out that some junior doctors even go on holiday sometimes. (In the interest of fairness, The Sun ran a similar article). Mail columnists routinely claim that Climate Change doesn't exist, and have also claimed that Stephen Gately's death was linked to his sexuality (Jan Moir), and that Japanese victims of the 2011 tsunami do not deserve our condolences because of WW2 (Richard Littlejohn), to take just a small sample of the despicable views published in the newspaper.

The Daily Mail has every right to publish this bile as far as I'm concerned. They, quite rightly, point to the freedom of the press. I'll use similar freedom of speech to criticise the newspaper. And I would like to point out that any newspaper has the same rights, and that every one of us has the same rights to criticise all of them.

What I find more concerning is the paper's tendency to publish utter lies. And they get away with it. For example, shortly before Romanian and Bulgarian citizens were entitled to work in the UK (on 1st Jan 2014), the Daily Mail made a specific claim that every flight and bus between these countries and the UK was fully booked by migrants coming to work in the country on or after the 1st of January. The reality was far from the truth - demand had not significantly increased, airlines had not increased their flight schedules, and the vast majority of people traveling were not new migrants! (Source). Amongst other lies told include the saga about the Liverpool Care Pathway, the majority of articles about this published by the Mail being simply fallacious. However, the frankly ludicrous article regarding sick babies being euthanised (now removed, but I can't find a retraction) has to be the pinnacle of their nonsense. I could go on. It appears to be commonplace that the Mail manipulates and fabricates facts to support its journalistic standpoint. Again, recent examples include the junior doctors' strike. Claims of an 11% pay rise are utter lies, as it's been well documented that this is on the background of a pay cut and increase in antisocial working hours! As are claims that the strike is about providing 24/7 service - as any junior doctor will tell you, they already provide 24/7 service!

Now, of course the Mail is not alone in this practice. Journalists on a whole have shown little to no interest in self-regulation. But the Mail seems to be particularly prone to making up it stories.

The quality of articles on the Mail's website are dire. A quick look at today's selection of trash includes:
Maths "Magic!"
Can YOU spot the panda in the zig-zags?
"Proof" that men do nothing at the weekend

.


Good post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I may have missed some but I dont think Diana has appeared on the front page for at least a year - seems to have been displaced by migration/EU

Another Express favourite storyline is Madelaine McCann.

The Express still exists because its owner, the pornographer Richard Desmond, has cut staff to the bone and refused to give the few that remain a pay rise for the past SEVEN years.

In other words, he's cut costs so much that even if its dwindling circulation falls further it will still make him a profit.

The ugly and nasty face of capitalism.
 
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Iskra

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I really struggle to consider the Mail a "good" newspaper. I will admit that it has good elements to it. It's done a good job of holding its own in the move to online media, and its website is one of the most visited news websites in the UK (and it's done a good job generating revenue in the US market). I don't agree with the paper's political view, but I'd agree that it is generally consistent.

That's about all the positives I can really say about the Mail.

The editorial stance of the paper is frankly disgusting many areas. The attitude towards asylum seekers by the Mail is, of course, well documented. It echoes of the Mail's views in the 1930s about Jewish people fleeing Nazi Germany. There's near daily articles insulting me as a Scottish person based on my nationality. The Mail's reaction to the Junior Doctor's strike was to point out that some junior doctors even go on holiday sometimes. (In the interest of fairness, The Sun ran a similar article). Mail columnists routinely claim that Climate Change doesn't exist, and have also claimed that Stephen Gately's death was linked to his sexuality (Jan Moir), and that Japanese victims of the 2011 tsunami do not deserve our condolences because of WW2 (Richard Littlejohn), to take just a small sample of the despicable views published in the newspaper.

The Daily Mail has every right to publish this bile as far as I'm concerned. They, quite rightly, point to the freedom of the press. I'll use similar freedom of speech to criticise the newspaper. And I would like to point out that any newspaper has the same rights, and that every one of us has the same rights to criticise all of them.

What I find more concerning is the paper's tendency to publish utter lies. And they get away with it. For example, shortly before Romanian and Bulgarian citizens were entitled to work in the UK (on 1st Jan 2014), the Daily Mail made a specific claim that every flight and bus between these countries and the UK was fully booked by migrants coming to work in the country on or after the 1st of January. The reality was far from the truth - demand had not significantly increased, airlines had not increased their flight schedules, and the vast majority of people traveling were not new migrants! (Source). Amongst other lies told include the saga about the Liverpool Care Pathway, the majority of articles about this published by the Mail being simply fallacious. However, the frankly ludicrous article regarding sick babies being euthanised (now removed, but I can't find a retraction) has to be the pinnacle of their nonsense. I could go on. It appears to be commonplace that the Mail manipulates and fabricates facts to support its journalistic standpoint. Again, recent examples include the junior doctors' strike. Claims of an 11% pay rise are utter lies, as it's been well documented that this is on the background of a pay cut and increase in antisocial working hours! As are claims that the strike is about providing 24/7 service - as any junior doctor will tell you, they already provide 24/7 service!

Now, of course the Mail is not alone in this practice. Journalists on a whole have shown little to no interest in self-regulation. But the Mail seems to be particularly prone to making up it stories.

The quality of articles on the Mail's website are dire. A quick look at today's selection of trash includes:
Maths "Magic!"
Can YOU spot the panda in the zig-zags?
"Proof" that men do nothing at the weekend



The only explanation for the continued existence of the Express as far as I can see is the dementia market. Their health "articles" are almost always "aspirin causes/cures Alzheimer's", and people with dementia don't remember reading the same article last Tuesday.

Whatever your views on the Express, that last comment is as vile as what you're criticising The Mail for.
 
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me123

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Whatever your views on the Express, that last comment is as vile as what you're criticising The Mail for.

Apologies if I have offended anyone, but I stand by the point that I cannot fathom the market for the Express. I don't read it, but even I am bored with the repetitive headlines, and I can't understand how anyone could read that paper for more than a week unless they could not remember reading the articles previously. I do not mean my comments as a disrespect to people with dementia (in any form).

(And, FWIW, I have lots of personal experience with dementia).

I would strongly disagree that my comment could be considered to be as vile as (to take some more Daily Mail articles) Tom Utley's views on gay marriage and Melanie Phillips' views on doctors having children.
 

bnm

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I have noticed a perceived need from some of the more left-wing oriented website members to use the Daily Mail as something to use in terms of their perceived dislike of that particular newspaper. Never having bought a copy of that newspaper in all my 70 years, I wondered as to how it would be performing in actuality in terms of daily sales and was quite surprised to find the following 2015 daily statistics:-

The Sun.......1,978,702
Daily Mail.....1,688,727
Daily Mirror.....992,235

Statistical returns for the 1950 to 1999 period show that in those days, the Daily Mirror sold many more daily copies than the Daily Mail, so is there any reason why the Daily Mirror readership fell so alarmingly from the start of the 21st century?

Why, having not bought the Daily Mail in 70 years are you seemingly so concerned about its perception on this forum?

My reading of the OP is that it's a veiled dig at those with political views different to your own.
 

radamfi

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Daily Mail is inconsistent. It thinks it is being right-wing by being anti-immigration, yet:

immigration -> free market
free market -> right-wing
 

Oswyntail

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....My reading of the OP is that it's a veiled dig at those with political views different to your own.
He is not alone! Often, here and elsewhere, if someone strays in their opinion from "centre-left" orthodoxy, they will get tagged as "Daily Mail readers" and vilified as fascists. The "facts" about the NHS as put about in the Independent and the Guardian are as far from the truth as those in the Mail and Express. We seem to be living in an age when mild differences of opinion can generate murderous rage, and when discussion and influencing people is anathema.
I write as one who has been frequently called both "Tory scum" and "f*****g Lefty b*****d", so I guess I must be doing something right.
 

Iskra

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Apologies if I have offended anyone, but I stand by the point that I cannot fathom the market for the Express. I don't read it, but even I am bored with the repetitive headlines, and I can't understand how anyone could read that paper for more than a week unless they could not remember reading the articles previously. I do not mean my comments as a disrespect to people with dementia (in any form).

(And, FWIW, I have lots of personal experience with dementia).

I would strongly disagree that my comment could be considered to be as vile as (to take some more Daily Mail articles) Tom Utley's views on gay marriage and Melanie Phillips' views on doctors having children.

I don't disagree with you about the Express being a vapid journalistic black hole, there are just nicer ways to say it.

It's certainly less pleasant than pointing out that poor overworked doctors are taking significantly better holidays than the majority of the population ever will. Alas, I'm not a Daily Mail reader/defender, I dislike it intensely and can't understand why people would want to read it when it is predominantly hate and lies. I think we're in agreement.
 

deltic

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Alas, I'm not a Daily Mail reader/defender, I dislike it intensely and can't understand why people would want to read it when it is predominantly hate and lies. I think we're in agreement.

I'm always amused by such comments - if you dont read it how do you know it is predominantly hate and lies?
 

Iskra

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I'm always amused by such comments - if you dont read it how do you know it is predominantly hate and lies?

Because, at one point it was amongst the selection of papers I would buy for my customers. The headlines used to make me laugh every morning.
 

Welly

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My late mother used to subscribe to the Telegraph but in the last few years of her life she had switched to the Mail which made me think it was a sign of her going senile! Mercifully she never became senile.
 

Cambus731

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I wonder if it may be related to The Mail's support for the John Major Government in 1992 which possibly was a contributary factor in that year's disastrous general election result, which led to five years of absolutely apalling UK Government which of course included the utterly unnecessary and disastrous break up of British Rail
 

charley_17/7

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I wonder if it may be related to The Mail's support for the John Major Government in 1992 which possibly was a contributary factor in that year's disastrous general election result, which led to five years of absolutely apalling UK Government which of course included the utterly unnecessary and disastrous break up of British Rail

But wasn't it 'The Sun Wot Won It' for the Tories in 1992?

I (reluctantly) buy the Daily Wail for the Weekend supplement and Jonathan Cainer (not for me, but for her), on a weekday, if the Metro is unobtainable. IMO, it is the best of a bad bunch (of tabloids).

I occasionally buy the i, and prior to that the Independent, both those seem to have lost their way lately. If a complimentary Times comes my way I will read that.

Wouldn't wipe my a*rse on the Sun, Mirror, Express, etc.
 

tony_mac

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Perhaps Paul doesn't realise it, but the term "Daily Mail reader" is a widely-used description / insult, and is not in any way specific to this forum (or even necessarily the "left-wing oriented").
It means rather more than just someone with a right-of-centre political viewpoint, just as calling someone a "Guardian Reader" is more nuanced than saying they are left-of-centre.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Why, having not bought the Daily Mail in 70 years are you seemingly so concerned about its perception on this forum?

My reading of the OP is that it's a veiled dig at those with political views different to your own.

It was just having seen the Daily Mail mentioned so much in the four and a half years that I have been a member of this website that I wondered what exactly it was that some forum members use the name of that paper as a pseudo-insult to those who do not agree with their own particular views.

What, may I ask, was wrong with the statistical information that I published on my posting on the very first posting on this thread. You will note in the final part of that posting, I most clearly stated that in the last 50 years of the 20th century, the Daily Mirror had larger daily sales than the Daily Mail.

If you choose to believe that I had any reason for raising the matter of circulation figures in this thread other than for that of statistical interest, you are fully in your right to express your views in print, which I see that you did in the final part of your posting above but I would point out to you that most certainly is NOT the case.

Only trolls deliberately choose to flame other forum members and if that final paragraph of your posting was a veiled attempt to slur me, then be it on your own shoulders.
 

richw

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Is the Daily Mail quoted more often as it has a free to access low ad website so is easier to use in quotes and more user friendly?

Several news sites either charge for access or have repeated full screen adverts that take over when trying to read the page.

If I want to read up about the bad weather, the source doesn't matter to me, however a user friendly website without ads repeatedly taking over the full screen will do for me, without a care what name is on the top of the paper.
 

me123

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Is the Daily Mail quoted more often as it has a free to access low ad website so is easier to use in quotes and more user friendly?

Low ad? There's plenty of adverts on the Mail's website, not least those disguised as articles... There's plenty of adverts on the Mail's website, they just aren't very intrusive. I loaded a page up this evening, and there's a Sky TV ad above the sidebar of shame, and some at the very bottom as well. Above the comments, I have a row of "selected partners". I have seen banners on either side of the article previously. ON the front page, there's numerous Halifax ads and a Lotto Banner.

I don't mean any of this as a criticism, that's obviously where their revenue comes from (and I would argue it's been successful for them). Just an observation that it's not exactly "low ad" by my standards. The adverts that are there are certainly not obtrusive.
 

richw

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Low ad? There's plenty of adverts on the Mail's website, not least those disguised as articles... There's plenty of adverts on the Mail's website, they just aren't very intrusive. I loaded a page up this evening, and there's a Sky TV ad above the sidebar of shame, and some at the very bottom as well. Above the comments, I have a row of "selected partners". I have seen banners on either side of the article previously. ON the front page, there's numerous Halifax ads and a Lotto Banner.

I don't mean any of this as a criticism, that's obviously where their revenue comes from (and I would argue it's been successful for them). Just an observation that it's not exactly "low ad" by my standards. The adverts that are there are certainly not obtrusive.

When I say "low ad" I mean in comparison to other news websites.
For Example Trinity Mirror PLC group websites being almost unusable on some slower connections due to the size of their ads.
 
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