WebberBus route 26 launch delayed.

[DaveHarries]

Webberbus have put a statement on their website regarding a delay in starting their Service 26 between Weston-super-Mare and Wells...

http://www.webberbus.com/index.php?cID=247

... of which the first paragraph states:

We have been the subject of co-ordinated and deliberate poaching of drivers by another company, who have recruited drivers, ostensibly for services starting at the end of July, but drivers have been offered a pay incentive to start on Monday 23rd June.

Recently, Buses of Somerset (aka. First in Somerset, covering Bridgwater and Taunton) posted a message on Facebook:

JOB VACANCIES: Bus Drivers in Taunton and Bridgwater (with PCV licence)

*******STOP PRESS: for a limited time we’re offering an increased starter hourly rate: £9.24 an hour plus enhanced rates for overtime , weekends and bank holidays *******

We’re looking for drivers in the Taunton and Bridgwater area ready for our new and improved services coming soon.

I wonder if these two are related. Any bets?
Dave

 

[robertclark125]

Probably, but then it's what happens in sport as well. And it's been done before in the bus industry, National Welsh did it to some municipals, Stagecoach in Darlington. So it's nothing new.

 

[Robertj21a]

.
Can't see any problem. It's a free country (....well, theoretically !) and anybody can work for whoever they choose. It's only what some operators have done before.

Robert

 

[South Westerly]

Oh dear. Webberbus doesn't like it when the boot is on the other foot do they! Until about a year ago they were more than happy to take on a regular flow of First drivers. Why do they imagine none have gone to them from First in the last year? Booted off the Bath and North East Somerset contracts in Weston, booted of the Taunton Park and Ride contract by Somerset County Council... Perhaps their drivers have had enough too? Is it true that their staff have been out in Romania trying to recruit drivers to compete with First's Buses of Somerset? So much for Webberbus being the lovely local bus company! Webberbus haven't had enough staff for months on end. At last First as Buses of Somerset are on the way to sorting themselves out, no drivers leaving them, and as Mr Peddlar reveals, lots of extra competitive services starting in late July. Webberbus has been launching competing routes against First quite happily, and has been happy to recruit First drivers. What is good enough for one has to be good enough for the other. If Mr Webberbus' people are having to fly to Romania to recruit drivers then the local market for bus drivers must be competitive. Webberbus started the competitive game by running routes against First. They created the competitive need to recruit bus drivers in the area. Competition is what allows Webberbus to run competitive bus services. Now as well as First's Buses of Somerset hitting back with competitive changes and new routes, Webberbus and Buses of Somerset are competing for drivers against each other. There's nothing wrong with that - that's competition Mr Peddlar. Looks like Buses of Somerset are more competitive than you. If the competition Webberbus created is driving up the level of bus drivers wages then you can't blame buses of Somerset. Good for the drivers! As it is First has always paid more than Webberbus, so it looks like it's about more than just money. Poaching? No employer owns its staff. They have the right to work for whoever they want. It looks like they don't want to work for Webberbus any more. Is it true that even the Trade Union rep has left and joined Buses of Somerset?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One of Webberbus's drivers has just pointed out to me the Webberbus home page on the website, where the first thing is an advert that has been up for a fair while trying to 'poach' Buses of Somerset drivers by pointing out that Webberbus don't bother to provide any services on Sundays Bank Holidays or in the evenings so there is no need to work at these times. Looks like Mr Peddlar may not be the innocent party he makes out in his statement after all! He also said that he was off to Buses of Somerset when he'd worked out his notice with other drivers, but that quite a few have left to go to crosville too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It is difficult to have sympathy entirely. After all, WB failed to manage their Weston contracts, and then lost the Taunton P&R through an inability to provide drivers and that was before BoS started recruiting!

 

[South Westerly]

It is difficult to have sympathy entirely. After all, WB failed to manage their Weston contracts, and then lost the Taunton P&R through an inability to provide drivers and that was before BoS started recruiting!

Frankly it's bonkers. They got unceremoniously chucked off the park and ride for non operation, while everyone knew they were hopelessly short of staff. Some of the staff chose to go to BoS under tupe. Within no time at all they had registered another (8?) buses worth of work to start this weekend.

They never have had the drivers. They advertised for new drivers on their website by trying to persuade BoS drivers to defect to them on the basis they don't have any work on Sundays, Bank Holidays and a Evenings.

What happened was the opposite. Everyone knows they can't get or keep drivers. They've been in Romania signing up drivers to come and drive for them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Frankly it's bonkers. They got unceremoniously chucked off the park and ride for non operation, while everyone knew they were hopelessly short of staff. Some of the staff chose to go to BoS under tupe. Within no time at all they had registered another (8?) buses worth of work to start this weekend.

They never have had the drivers. They advertised for new drivers on their website by trying to persuade BoS drivers to defect to them on the basis they don't have any work on Sundays, Bank Holidays and a Evenings.

What happened was the opposite. Everyone knows they can't get or keep drivers. They've been in Romania signing up drivers to come and drive for them.

So are BoS taking drivers on now (23rd June) but no new service registrations have been submitted?

 

[robertclark125]

They could be recruiting drivers, then route training them for new or improved routes, then registering them. Recruitment and registration of routes can have a large gap in between.

 

[South Westerly]

So are BoS taking drivers on now (23rd June) but no new service registrations have been submitted?

They are all registered from 27 July for BoS. Apparently Mr Peddlar's accusation that BoS are offering a higher pay rate if they start by 23rd June isn't right. BoS have been recruiting drivers to start training for a few weeks and are still doing so. I'm told they get full rate whenever they start.

 

[robertclark125]

Like a thread I had a few years ago, when The Big Lemon withdrew a route after competition with Brighton and Hove bus and coach, I think this thread is, once again, showing that whilst the authorities and the small operators are calling for a level playing field, what the small operators want really I a level playing field tilted in their favour. Basically, it's alright for them to poach staff from big firms, but not alright for it to vwork the other way. It's alright for small firms to run buses in competition with big firms, but not alright the other way (Something which Reays of Wigton is famous for crying out against, as noted in another thread)

Sorry Webberbus, the industry is open to all, and you have to accept that a level playing field is that, one in favour of no one or all, not one skewed in your favour. Just get on with running buses properly.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They are all registered from 27 July for BoS. Apparently Mr Peddlar's accusation that BoS are offering a higher pay rate if they start by 23rd June isn't right. BoS have been recruiting drivers to start training for a few weeks and are still doing so. I'm told they get full rate whenever they start.

Did have a quick check but can't see any registrations made? Or am I missing something? If they're due to start on 27th July, then they'll have been submitted by now.....or is VOSA being slow to publish?

 

[South Westerly]

Did have a quick check but can't see any registrations made? Or am I missing something? If they're due to start on 27th July, then they'll have been submitted by now.....or is VOSA being slow to publish?

Only the 54 change was published among the transfers from the FSA to FDC applications in late May for some reason. Probably VOSA mixing up the transfers with the new registrations. The rest are all no doubt in a huge pile in Leeds. Since GoSouthCoast have had to move all their registrations onto their new single licence VOSA are snowed under.

A little birdie tells me that BoS has registered major competitive changes to five separate routes from 27 July and that they have finally decided to take Webberbus head on.

That explains why they are so busy recruiting and training staff ready.

 

[Busaholic]

Suggest you get the latest edition of 'Buses' and read the letter from a decades-long user of buses in the Taunton area, from which it is clear that there are few improvements in First's offering (oh, sorry, 'Buses of Somerset', patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel) beyond the cosmetic, and some of these fail to live up to the hype. No Barbie-tinted spectacles or Alastair Campbell- like denunciations of anyone with an opposing view can disguise the fact that First is failing fast, losing rail contracts (or failing to gain them) left,right and centre and running away whenever another big boy calls their bluff. Then, they were led for so many years by an ardent admirer of Thatcher who wouldn't have minded 'living by the sword, dying by the sword'.

When I lived in Bristol in the mid/late 80s I couldn't believe how bad Bristol Citybus and the fledgling Badgerline were: I'd love two of Stagecoach', Arriva and Go-Ahead to vow to break First's monopoly and to tackle the local bureaucrats head-on and get things moving in Britain's most congested city (pro rata).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Suggest you get the latest edition of 'Buses' and read the letter from a decades-long user of buses in the Taunton area, from which it is clear that there are few improvements in First's offering (oh, sorry, 'Buses of Somerset', patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel) beyond the cosmetic, and some of these fail to live up to the hype. No Barbie-tinted spectacles or Alastair Campbell- like denunciations of anyone with an opposing view can disguise the fact that First is failing fast, losing rail contracts (or failing to gain them) left,right and centre and running away whenever another big boy calls their bluff. Then, they were led for so many years by an ardent admirer of Thatcher who wouldn't have minded 'living by the sword, dying by the sword'.

When I lived in Bristol in the mid/late 80s I couldn't believe how bad Bristol Citybus and the fledgling Badgerline were: I'd love two of Stagecoach', Arriva and Go-Ahead to vow to break First's monopoly and to tackle the local bureaucrats head-on and get things moving in Britain's most congested city (pro rata).

Don't believe everything you read in Buses. I trust the date and that's about it!

Bristol's traffic woes will not be sorted by a change from First to AN Other. That won't fix the ridiculous road network, the lousy bus priority (see Old Market).

As for Somerset, everyone knows it's been affected even more than most areas by the fundamentally flawed mantra of service cuts, fare hikes, lack of investment, centrally planned diktats of the Moir era. Also, was that going to be sorted in just a few weeks..... I've not seen the letter but was this from an industry professional or an armchair manager?

As it is, the situation is that First's complacency let Webberbus in. Faced with a massive asset write off, they decided not to wind up or sell on the cheap and instead try something new by developing things. The new image is being rolled out and they've painted 22+ out of a fleet of 68 in about 5 months. The average age of the fleet is too high but I guess the plan is to put the pressure on Webberbus, hope they retreat to their tendered/semi-commercial work and then that will allow First to properly invest.

15 year old Tridents, even with a new paint job, is hardly captivating but they are where they are, and the long road back to viability has begun to be trod. Who knows what will be happening before long??

 

[South Westerly]

Not sure a single letter in an enthusiasts' magazine is a definitive judgment. what is refreshing about First in Buses of Somerset is that they aren't saying if they paint the buses green everything will be okay. they've said clearly that it will be a long journey to do all the things they need to do to make it good.
Having been to Taunton a few times recently I can't say that there's much hope of any overall improvement until Wessex Water has stopped digging up the town.

 

[RPI]

Suggest you get the latest edition of 'Buses' and read the letter from a decades-long user of buses in the Taunton area, from which it is clear that there are few improvements in First's offering (oh, sorry, 'Buses of Somerset', patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel) beyond the cosmetic, and some of these fail to live up to the hype. No Barbie-tinted spectacles or Alastair Campbell- like denunciations of anyone with an opposing view can disguise the fact that First is failing fast, losing rail contracts (or failing to gain them) left,right and centre and running away whenever another big boy calls their bluff. Then, they were led for so many years by an ardent admirer of Thatcher who wouldn't have minded 'living by the sword, dying by the sword'.

When I lived in Bristol in the mid/late 80s I couldn't believe how bad Bristol Citybus and the fledgling Badgerline were: I'd love two of Stagecoach', Arriva and Go-Ahead to vow to break First's monopoly and to tackle the local bureaucrats head-on and get things moving in Britain's most congested city (pro rata).

Yaaaawwwwn, obviously got an F shaped chip on your shoulder, fact is that First have actually began to up their game in UK bus and show that they won't roll over to competition as they had done for so long, they haven't lost any rail franchises, the former FCC is integrated into the Southern and Southeastern franchises so effectively that has been "retained" by Govia, the Scot rail sleepers again is a bit of a cinderella franchise, Tim O'Toole will only be worried if they fail to gain any of the proper franchise awards due over the next few years

 

[Tom B]

I observe that employers don't mind a "race to the bottom" which is too often seen, in which staff pay and conditions are reduced because it's what everyone else is paying - but they complain when the opposite is true and they have to pay more to retain staff!

 

[South Westerly]

I observe that employers don't mind a "race to the bottom" which is too often seen, in which staff pay and conditions are reduced because it's what everyone else is paying - but they complain when the opposite is true and they have to pay more to retain staff!

Who 's complaining? First BoS are the one paying top rate, but haven't been complaining.

 

[fgwrich]

Yaaaawwwwn, obviously got an F shaped chip on your shoulder, fact is that First have actually began to up their game in UK bus and show that they won't roll over to competition as they had done for so long, they haven't lost any rail franchises, the former FCC is integrated into the Southern and Southeastern franchises so effectively that has been "retained" by Govia, the Scot rail sleepers again is a bit of a cinderella franchise, Tim O'Toole will only be worried if they fail to gain any of the proper franchise awards due over the next few years

I'd certainly agree with you RPI. I was initially doubting the new First Bus until recently, but haven't spent some time down in Portsmouth and Southampton, they very much have picked up their game. In Southampton they seem to be making GoAhead's Bluestar sweat for a change, with 05 plate WrightBuses going through refurbishment and repainting into the newer liveries, while the other end of the First Solent network in Portsmouth seem to be doing better too. BoS Will take it's time to improve, none of these changes are going to be completed overnight, but with the recent shift of focus by First's Management team including the recruiting of Giles Fearnley and James Freeman from Reading Buses, allowing Alex Carter the freedom to roll out the BoS brand etc. They still have a lot of work to go, but what they've got and what they've turned their attention to they do seem to have done rather well at. Don't believe me? Take a trip on The Eclipse in Fareham or The Star or Park And Ride in Portsmouth.

In this case, I'm sorry to see things going tough for an independent - with the likes of GoAhead and Stagecoach unfortunately on the look out for newer businesses, I like to see independents remain. Unfortunately however, if your nearest rival is the likes of First Bus and they are pulling up their socks and overhauling their bus network, you have to improve too. You can't simply cry wolf when you want the level playing field, and then want it tilted in your direction, even though you can't seemingly be bothered to improve yourself or offer what First are offering on the table. And unfortunately for them, drivers are seeing that First, Crossville and others are offering better benefits, so they will go for them. Simple As. I'm almost starting to wonder who will be the first to fall sadly, Webberbus or Western Greyhound - see the other thread for their issues. But in short, both seem to be suffering issues, both seem to have managers speaking out and lumping the blame onto other issues i.e Councils or larger operators, and both operate very closely to areas where First and Stagecoach operate in or near.

Anyway, that is my take on the situation and opinions. Whether you agree with any of them or not, that's up to you, but it's what I can see or feel. Some of it's not pretty, but that's the realities of modern day bus operations anymore.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've now had chance to read the letter in Buses - thank god for WH Smith!

There is mention of a number of areas and there are some specific experiences that I can't prove or disprove. However, it does look like there's an axe to grind and perhaps jumping to conclusions. One mention of the refurbishment of Taunton waiting room that the writer thinks has been abandoned; a bit of research (or perhaps even asking BoS) would've shown that they did the gutting bit of the area but then had to wait for an asbestos assessment before they can proceed. Similarly, the congestion and roadworks are mentioned but dismissed as providing excuses for BoS when anyone who knows has seen how it has destroyed reliability at times. Also, bemoaning the speed of repaints....based on the fleet size, the poster would be expecting them to be painted at a rate of 4 per week! Really?

There is mention of the fleet that we all know has been woefully underinvested in over several years, especially since the Laidlaw deal that reduced the capacity for First to invest in fleet replacement. I think we all know that the latest fleet updates are hardly ground breaking with 15 year old Tridents and 8/9 year old B7RLEs.

However, they are where they are and are making some inroads into sorting things out. The B7RLEs are an upgrade (albeit modest) and that displaces the thirsty B7Ls. They're now being swapped for similar aged B6LEs and that will enable some of the oldest Darts to go; again modest improvements but are people expecting a fleet of new vehicles? I remember first visiting the area in 1991 and you could've been forgiven in thinking it was 1983; bus stops and bus depots still had NBC logos, with the VRs and Nationals that survived still in leaf green. New vehicles were Merc 811s on trunk services like the 21 (albeit only to Burnham) - Somerset is not prime bus territory! Where fair criticism of BoS is appropriate is what I witnessed and experienced the other week with an insufficient number of deckers available to cover the new 21 with overloads and passengers being left at stops - I appreciate that additional vehicles may be heading up (for high season) but it's well known that you need deckers for Brean from Easter onwards.

I wouldn't lump WGL and Webberbus in the same camp. WGL are fundamentally a decent well run business, and have the awards to prove it. A disasterous fire and a second one in Liskeard didn't help and yes, perhaps they're suffering a bit through that and the ENCTS remuneration rate. Webberbus have all the hallmarks of Premiere in Nottingham and an overambitious expansion might well lead the same way. WB singularly failed to operate their NSC contracts correctly and the Taunton P&R. Rather than consolidate and carve out a good strong business, they thought they'd try to capitalise on First's "disposal list" and topple them over with the 37/38. I think that's proved counter productive and the new routes like the 26 seem even higher risk.

I won't/can't predict the outcome but clearly, Somerset is getting very, very interesting and I'd be intrigued if the new services are merely frequency enhancements, new routes that cover some or all of existing WB/BoS services (I don't know - extending the 14 from Watchet to Minehead or a wacky Bridgwater to Wells via Burnham and Wedmore as daft guesses), or something completely new? Be interesting when they are finally unveiled

 

[matt_splat]

I believe its one new service

and three service improvements which first are going to be running

 

[freetoview33]

I am wondering if they will increase the 126 just to kill off the threat of this 26

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am wondering if they will increase the 126 just to kill off the threat of this 26

That would be FSA rather than BoS though? I'm wondering if 22 might go every 10 or every 12 mins? Also, perhaps more on Bridgwater 1?

 

[matt_splat]

the changes are out well sort of vosa regerstartions

see changes to service 54, 29 and 21 as well as 102

and finally also see a new service number 26 similar to webberbus number 27 which would mean webberbus lose there only council funded service

I believe the 54 will be doubled in frequency and run to the hospital in taunton the 21 will be doubled between taunton and Bridgwater and the 29 will be also doubled in frequency

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

the changes are out well sort of vosa regerstartions

see changes to service 54, 29 and 21 as well as 102

and finally also see a new service number 26 similar to webberbus number 27 which would mean webberbus lose there only council funded service

I believe the 54 will be doubled in frequency and run to the hospital in taunton the 21 will be doubled between taunton and Bridgwater and the 29 will be also doubled in frequency

Thanks for that. I guess that the 29 will go hourly rather than double (to every 45 mins)? Did have a look at WB's website earlier and noticed their 27 but TBH, I don't know how busy it is. I assumed it was a tender but is it their last SCC service? I thought the 19 might be tendered.

Doubling the 54 is a bold move though. The 21 VOSA regn is the Burnham to Weston section (mistake?). I did think a while ago that they could run a Taunton to Bridgwater express (omit Monkton Heathfield) and then run out to North Sydenham. As for the 102......

 

[matt_splat]

the other end I doubt will change just the bit between Bridgwater and Taunton

it doesn't really the other issue will result in a 54 /377 clash at some point

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

the other end I doubt will change just the bit between Bridgwater and Taunton

it doesn't really the other issue will result in a 54 /377 clash at some point

That's my point. The VOSA reg refers to the Weston end. I don't doubt what you're saying - have VOSA made a mistake? Btw is the 19 now commercial? If so, that's really surprising

Know what you're saying about the 54/377 - it'll be a lop sided timetable from Somerton to Yeovil unless something else changes or they just run half hourly Taunton to Somerton with one an hour running thru to Yeovil.

 

[quarella]

I am wondering if they will increase the 126 just to kill off the threat of this 26

I very much doubt it based on recent events with nearly all of First's Weston town services being withdrawn in the evening after Crosville started competing on the No 5.

 

[Private Baxter]

Been a bit slow to respond on this thread.

WB's problem was that they buried their heads in the sand when it came to their own problems. Their solution to the loss of their contracts was to simply introduce a new service, which isn't really needed. If there was need for two buses an hour Wells to Weston, then First would have introduced it a long time ago. It might however mean that First upgrade the vehicles used on the 126 though, as they usually use old, and not very comfortable B10s. As for First 'poaching' staff, clearly they simply had a more attractive offer, which I know they do. Any body would do it, and I suspect WB drivers were sick of eing messed around. In my various jobs in the past I have switched to rival companies when I see a better deal! That's just how things go.

Not everyone will agree but First actually are an excellent company. They are professional and they know what they are doing. They don't get everything right and come in for their fare share of criticism (some of it unjust) but still. The BoS scheme is a superb idea and I believe thatt when it is complete it will be a very much more respected brand in Somerset. If nothing else their image will certainly be improved. But it will take time and they do need to get rid of some rubbish first, and I think it is worth bringing in some slightly newer stuff, even if the financial benefits aren't immediately felt. But what they have so far is very promising.

Back to Webberbus, I really don't know what their long term future is, but I can't see services like the 26 being very successful (I could be wrong) and as for the 37, surprised that's lasted as long as it has!

Oh, and from what I gather First have made an excellent job of the Taunton P&R.

 

[freetoview33]

Now local First operations have been given much more freedom we are starting to see this improvement and competition.