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WCR - Jacobite 2026

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Isle of Mull

Isle of Mull

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Iskra

Iskra

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We could do with a better informed source picking this up and confirming it before getting too excited I think.
 
fgwrich

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Iskra said:
We could do with a better informed source picking this up and confirming it before getting too excited I think.
Click to expand...
There is a rake in the sheds at Carnforth. So something is happening.

I think there’s a realisation that they’ve done themselves (well, Smithy) no favours in the charter market and with West Coast having a good mix of Mk1s, LSL having FOs, and new entrants like Eastern & to an extent Romic nipping at their toes, it’s getting easy to lose custom in the charter market.
 
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Bill57p9

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Iskra said:
We could do with a better informed source picking this up and confirming it before getting too excited I think.
Click to expand...
The article attributes the quote to James Shuttleworth, who is WCRC Commercial Manager.

The article also quotes ORR as stating that they have received a section 5 exemption application from another company in the same ownership group, but not WCRC themselves.

Will keep a close eye on this one.
 
Steam4Max

Steam4Max

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If true, that’s amazing!

I’m assuming they will do a rake to do on the Jacobite first but I wonder how many they will do in a ‘rush’ and then how many total.

IMO they need at least a couple for RTC excursions unless they want to keep relying on Riley’s Black 5’s, as at some point Tangmere is due an overhaul and that’s the only operational air-braked loco they own IIRC. Bringing MK1’s back will allow them to use BIL, Scots Guardsman, Galatea, 44932, etc.
 
K

kkong

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The Press & Journal has some further quotes from Mr Shuttleworth.

James Shuttleworth, chief officer of West Coast Railways, told The Press and Journal it will be "exceptionally difficult" to run the service if the situation is not resolved.

He said: "We will not run this service without the exemption. We don’t want subsidy or public money. We've never received operational public money and we don’t want it. We want to maintain our independent position, but we need people to be reasonable and allow us to get on with it."

He also points to the service’s safety record.

"In 40 years of charter operations, there have been zero significant injuries or fatalities caused by this type of door. By their own admission, it’s a low-risk safety issue. We will fit central door locking over a period of time - but we need the exemption to bridge the gap."

He says the decision ultimately rests on whether the train can cover its costs.

"It's economics which are hitting us. We don’t get to just lose money every time. If we cannot make it viable, we won’t run. That's not a threat - it's reality. Mallaig depends on this service - absolutely depends on it."
Click to expand...
 
F

Forty29

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Contradictics Mr Smith's views about traders in Mallaig who says they are not appreciative of the trade the service brings.
 
Belfastmarty

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Bill57p9 said:
The article attributes the quote to James Shuttleworth, who is WCRC Commercial Manager.

The article also quotes ORR as stating that they have received a section 5 exemption application from another company in the same ownership group, but not WCRC themselves.

Will keep a close eye on this one.
Click to expand...
If, and it's a big if, the ORR are to grant an exemption, they will most certainly want to see a detailed, time-bound plan for the fitment of CDL to the stock, so as they can then track against this and hold WCRCs feet to the fire if they are not meeting their commitments. Unfortunately, I have a suspicion this story is far from over.
 
H

H F Stephens

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Forty29 said:
Contradictics Mr Smith's views about traders in Mallaig who says they are not appreciative of the trade the service brings.
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It doesn't really - Smith claims that they're not appreciative, and Shuttleworth claims that they depend on it.

They're not actually mutually exclusive, but neither are either of them absolutely true.

Neither Smith nor Shuttleworth like the fact that local businesses don't fawn over them, and neither Smith nor Shuttleworth (apparently) understand that traders in both Mallaig and Fort William appreciate the customers that The Jacobite brings in, but certainly don't appreciate the now annual WCRC political pantomime of 'will-they-won't-they-run' that severely impacts on business planning.

The wider locality is also generally aware of the fact that a) The Jacobite, even when it was running fully with Mk1 stock, is fairly poorly regarded by passengers (see Tripadvisor for reviews) and that b) on an average day, there are more car and coach borne external spectators clogging up the A830 and chewing up the hillsides astride 'that' viaduct than inside the trains themselves.

The vast majority of them do not reach Mallaig and may not even touch the Fort for long.
 
Killingworth

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H F Stephens said:
The wider locality is also generally aware of the fact that a) The Jacobite, even when it was running fully with Mk1 stock, is fairly poorly regarded by passengers (see Tripadvisor for reviews) and that b) on an average day, there are more car and coach borne external spectators clogging up the A830 and chewing up the hillsides astride 'that' viaduct than inside the trains themselves.

The vast majority of them do not reach Mallaig and may not even touch the Fort for long.
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The National Trust for Scotland has been doing quite well out of visitors calling for pictures of the Jacobite crossing the Glenfinnan viaduct. Although we have taken the trip we've taken a lot more pictures from the lineside. There wasn't a lot to do in Mallaig on the miserable wet day when we went on the train.
 
Spaceship323

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Killingworth said:
There wasn't a lot to do in Mallaig on the miserable wet day when we went on the train.
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Even the chippy at the station closes about 20' after the lunchtime scotrail service arrives. so you can't even wait in there. We had to sit on the platform for ages as most of the town is inaccessible for a wheelchair - saw the afternoon Jacobite come in though - which was nice
 
C

cats_five

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H F Stephens said:
<snip>
neither Smith nor Shuttleworth (apparently) understand that traders in both Mallaig and Fort William appreciate the customers that The Jacobite brings in,
<snip>
Click to expand...

I was in Fort William a few times over June, July & August last year (2025) and it was rammed, at times with long queues of traffic beyond the Road to the Isles roundabout. There is absolutely no way most of those people were brought in to Fort William by the Jacobite. Think the NC500 had a lot more to do with it.
 
H

H F Stephens

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cats_five said:
I was in Fort William a few times over June, July & August last year (2025) and it was rammed, at times with long queues of traffic beyond the Road to the Isles roundabout. There is absolutely no way most of those people were brought in to Fort William by the Jacobite. Think the NC500 had a lot more to do with it.
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Absolutely - the road traffic through Fort William is fairly incessant during the season.

Some is local, of course; and then some is heading no further than Glenfinnan, some is en route to the Mallaig ferry, but the majority is travelling between Glencoe/Oban and Fort Augustus.

When The Jacobite is in the station at Fort William, it's usually little more than a coincidental curiosity for a few that notice it - anyone in that area who actually wants to see and who isn't on it will aim for 'that' viaduct.

There are a few who will park up elsewhere along the line, but anecdotally a significant proportion of those who do stop lineside do so only when they see or hear it coming (arguably without a lot of regard for other road users).
 
R

Railwaycat

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cats_five said:
I was in Fort William a few times over June, July & August last year (2025) and it was rammed, at times with long queues of traffic beyond the Road to the Isles roundabout. There is absolutely no way most of those people were brought in to Fort William by the Jacobite. Think the NC500 had a lot more to do with it.
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Fort William isn't on NC500.
 
M

martin butler

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WCRC has had plenty of time to comply, every other operator has, and frankly I have no sympathy for them, Whatever trouble they are in, is of their own choosing,

that they don't have enough air braked engines, is because David Smith dictated that his engines won't be so fitted, the non-fitting of CDL to their MK1 fleet, is also down to the same refusal to move with the times.

If WCRC loses its customer base, it will be because of decisions it made, not that of any other body, the ORR have been clear, everyone else complied, WCRC thought it didn't apply to them.
 
A

anothertyke

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cats_five said:
No, but a lot of people who have travelled to Scotland to 'do' the NC500 will go to Fort William & Glencoe as well.
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Total visitors to the Scottish Highlands 8.4 million. Numbers doing the full NC500 30,000. Fortunately in view of the amount of single track road round the NW corner.
 
fgwrich

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Spaceship323 said:
Especially as FTW has a Morrison's and a McDonalds next to the station
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Don’t forget Fort William also has a lot of other activities going for it in the area on top of the NC500, anything from water sports to mountain biking, Munro Bagging and of course Beinn Nibheis.
 
Y

YorkshireBear

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H F Stephens said:
Absolutely - the road traffic through Fort William is fairly incessant during the season.

Some is local, of course; and then some is heading no further than Glenfinnan, some is en route to the Mallaig ferry, but the majority is travelling between Glencoe/Oban and Fort Augustus.

When The Jacobite is in the station at Fort William, it's usually little more than a coincidental curiosity for a few that notice it - anyone in that area who actually wants to see and who isn't on it will aim for 'that' viaduct.

There are a few who will park up elsewhere along the line, but anecdotally a significant proportion of those who do stop lineside do so only when they see or hear it coming (arguably without a lot of regard for other road users).
Click to expand...
Obviously just based on my personal observation. We went in October after the Jacobite had stopped running to go see the viaduct with my nieces. Very busy still, with lots and lots commenting on the long drive from Glasgow/Edinburgh area for the day. Lots commenting that they had just come to see it and were going straight back.

It was the only time in the entire week spent on the Ardnamurchan Peninsular we saw more than about 3 people at once.
 
B

Bill57p9

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From the P&J article:
"In 40 years of charter operations, there have been zero significant injuries or fatalities caused by this type of door. By their own admission, it’s a low-risk safety issue. We will fit central door locking over a period of time - but we need the exemption to bridge the gap."
Click to expand...
Interestingly somewhat selective data set:
People did regularly suffer significant injuries and in some cases fatalities from "this type of door", on both the mainline and preserved railways within the last 40 years - just not during a charter.

WCRC themselves have had near misses with "this type of door".
In terms of it taking time to fit CDL, I don't disagree, however there is an off season which is ideal for this kind of work - and corresponding paperwork such as exemption applications.

Belfastmarty said:
If, and it's a big if, the ORR are to grant an exemption, they will most certainly want to see a detailed, time-bound plan for the fitment of CDL to the stock, so as they can then track against this and hold WCRCs feet to the fire if they are not meeting their commitments. Unfortunately, I have a suspicion this story is far from over.
Click to expand...
Totally agree.
 
C

cats_five

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Spaceship323 said:
Especially as FTW has a Morrison's and a McDonalds next to the station
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And, to my great surprise, a massive M&S food hall and also a Lidl. It also has Screwfix, Toolstation & Argos.

When I first visited it the only supermarket was a tiny Safeways in what is now the library, so tiny it had special small trolleys so they could pass in the aisles. There was also very little 'fresh' produce and much of what there was was far from fresh. Times have changed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

fgwrich said:
<snip>
Beinn Nibheis.
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Oh yes. All those massive charity ascents. :(

And all the litter left on the top. I'm thankful I went up twice (CMD arete, Tower Ridge) back in the early 1990s.
 
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