WCR - Jacobite 2026

[Krokodil]

I Think you’ll find the Mk1s aren’t sitting around doing nothing though, with several on hire over the winter period to pres lines such as South Devon, Spa Valley and Bolton & Embsay.

He did mention them:

Aside from a handful out on hire to heritage lines

 

[Sidmouth34010]

I don't know about extremely quickly. Anyone doing that has to source coaches, locos and crew and maintenance staff over and above existing commitments. Could LSL do a deal with SRPS for the coaching stock? Given notice, maybe.Could they send 61306 and 45231 up there? Given time, maybe. Could they assemble the staff? Maybe. Could they do that extremely quickly? No.

45231 , is that not awaiting overhaul ? 61306 is down to be based at the WSR for the English Riviera workings . The Mallaig road is arduous and takes a lot out of engines . You can quickly see why it has not been worked regularly by WCRC engines and left to the K1,B1 and Ian's Fives , all of whom have support crews who have supported the operation

If LSL were to take it on , then it would probably need Mr Riley to jump as well and make his engines available . For various reasons and whilst not impossible it would be a seismic shift of maybe biblical proportions

LSL also currently doesn't have MK1 CDL stock available . possibly a MK2 set air cons ?

then where would an LSL Jacobite sit . Given the higher end product focus of LSL and bums on seats high volume to Mallaig is not really in LSL portfolio . Look at how quickly the Windsor workings were dropped when LSL acquired the Steam Dream Business

I'm not sure how David and Jeremy get along . Parking your chairmans train on Glenfinnan sort of suggests it could happen justti dance of your arch rivals patch but it is not without a lot of complexity and risk and for all David's behaviour he knows that full well

 

[Railwaycat]

I'm not sure how David and Jeremy get along . Parking your chairmans train on Glenfinnan sort of suggests it could happen justti dance of your arch rivals patch but it is not without a lot of complexity and risk and for all David's behaviour he knows that full well

I should imagine not well (down to earth northerner, posh southerner), although they might just both be Deform voters (as in wealthy men who might hope to become wealthier...). Trying to think if I've had a conversation about Mr Hoskin with a certain gentleman once - if I had I don't think it was positive.

 

[Bill57p9]

LSL also currently doesn't have MK1 CDL stock available . possibly a MK2 set air cons ?

I thought that LSL did have a mk1 set with CDL fitted.
They certainly have a regulation 4 exemption, permitting the use of Mk1 stock without crash strengthening. https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...ption-certificate-for-locomotive-services.pdf
LSL do not have a regulation 5 exemption, which is required to operate hinged door rolling stock without CDL.

 

[matt]

I thought that LSL did have a mk1 set with CDL fitted.
They certainly have a regulation 4 exemption, permitting the use of Mk1 stock without crash strengthening. https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...ption-certificate-for-locomotive-services.pdf
LSL do not have a regulation 5 exemption, which is required to operate hinged door rolling stock without CDL.

They have 1 rake which is used by Saphos and Steam Dreams so would not be available for a Jacobite service. They also have use of the SRPS set which is in the process of being CDL fitted but again with SRPS tours and others the set would also not be available for a Jacobite service.

 

[SwindonManor]

LSL did their own Jacobite for a few months whilst jacobite was off due to CDL issues. It wasn't a temporary fix I dont believe, it's happened before but I wonder if it will be stepped up to jacobite levels of operations in order to fill the gap?

 

[H F Stephens]

LSL did their own Jacobite for a few months whilst jacobite was off due to CDL issues. Forgot the name.

Pictures of the two ‘37s’ and a shortened ScotRail DBSO rake in this post discussing the temporary LSL operation:

Could LSL be launching a competitor service to the Jacobite?

In the Preservation forum, a thread about a Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) stock move from Crewe to Tom na Faire Depot has included news of a new offering by LSL. LSL will operate a train along the route of the West Coast Railways' "Jacobite" for at least a few days, comprising two class 37s...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[SwindonManor]

In general, WCR haven't opened bookings much yet. I believe Lunes River Trust and Muncaster Express have opened bookings but the other tours say tickets release later this year and as soon as you open the website, it says that tickets are in the coming weeks for jacobite

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

In general, WCR haven't opened bookings much yet. I believe Lunes River Trust and Muncaster Express have opened bookings but the other tours say tickets release later this year and as soon as you open the website, it says that tickets are in the coming weeks for jacobite

And with jacobite
It said in November tickets releasing soon then they changed it to "new year"
Then to "coming weeks"

 

[uww11x]

I do wonder where WC go from here.

They've lost the East Coast Thunderbird contract, the previously lucrative Jacobite is losing money because they refuse to fit CDL to their MK1 fleet so its operated with 1970s coffins instead of the 'Harry Potter'-style compartment coaches, they've spent a lot of money on a whole load of MK2s which, whilst they've allowed them to continue operating, are generally unpopular, and they've only got one steam loco of their own that can actually operate with the MK2s in the form of 34067 - using Riley's 5s for the rest of their work. They've also lost use of Tornado due to their own demands.

Aside from a handful out on hire to heritage lines, they're now sitting on what, 30 or 40 (maybe more?) MK1s that they can't run on the mainline - therefore aren't making money - and they've got the rest of their steam fleet either active but doing nothing, under restoration (where IS 48151?) or awaiting restoration - which also cannot earn money except through hire to heritage lines unless the MK1s are CDL fitted or the locos are air-braked.

Short notice route proving in Scotland is a nice earner for them.

 

[Sidmouth34010]

I thought that LSL did have a mk1 set with CDL fitted.
They certainly have a regulation 4 exemption, permitting the use of Mk1 stock without crash strengthening. https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...ption-certificate-for-locomotive-services.pdf
LSL do not have a regulation 5 exemption, which is required to operate hinged door rolling stock without CDL.

I should rephrase that .... spare set

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I see the Independent have an article on this.

MSN

Implementing the new measures to fit 120 coaches retrospectively could cost Jacobite owners £7m, which is described as a “substantial figure” for the fleet.

WCR is seeking a final solution with the ORR following legal action against the regulator after it refused to exempt the company from the central locking rules.

They quote £7m to fit CDL to 120 coaches but of course for the Jacobite only it would be two sets of six/seven coaches plus a few spares so circa 13% of the fleet = more like £1m (with a small allowance of a higher 'per unit' cost).
Do they actually have 120 Mk1s?

 

[Isle of Mull]

They quote £7m to fit CDL to 120 coaches
Do they actually have 120 Mk1s?

To be honest, the amount of money they have made with those mk1s, they really should have done it ages ago. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did have 120 since there is loads and Carnforth and Southall and heritage railways as well

 

[Krokodil]

I see the Independant have an article on this.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...B&cvid=69909722dd3a4abcb609af0fa24826af&ei=16

They quote £7m to fit CDL to 120 coaches but of course for the Jacobite only it would be two sets of six/seven coaches plus a few spares so circa 13% of the fleet = more like £1m (with a small allowance of a higher 'per unit' cost).
Do they actually have 120 Mk1s?

Three sets needed (they swap the morning set halfway through the season). But they've almost certainly lost more than £7m in revenue

 

[Isle of Mull]

Three sets needed (they swap the morning set halfway through the season). But they've almost certainly lost more than £7m in revenue

Absolutely, David Smith really needs to cop on

 

[Railwaycat]

Three sets needed (they swap the morning set halfway through the season). But they've almost certainly lost more than £7m in revenue

And you don't have to have an afternoon service.

 

[Tetragon213]

I could've sworn WCRC has been arguing about CDL for years now.

For the cost of all the lawyers' fees, hot air, and wasted time etc, they could probably have retrofitted all of their sets with CDL twice over...

Recently, I happened upon a Signals to Danger roundup regarding the WCRC and CDL saga... from March 2024. WCRC has known, for a helluva long time, that they have been operating on exemption. They have also known for 2 years that the era of non-CDL stock was upon them, yet chose to argue about it instead of putting in a vital safety feature. With their notorious safety record, I don't think they should be trying to argue against safety equipment.

 

[Doombar]

We went on the train last year (great experience) after being bumped the previous year as the lack of locking doors caused the firm to cancel trains for many weeks at the start of the season. Forgive my ignorance, but is it because the train is running on a mainline that the requirement for locking doors is needed?

 

[hexagon789]

Forgive my ignorance, but is it because the train is running on a mainline that the requirement for locking doors is needed?

Something like that yes.

Heritage lines are generally exempt because of slow speeds (25mph max) and such; the NYMR had an exemption to run over Network Rail line from Grosmont to Whitby but I believe that they now have certain carriages fitted specifically to run to Whitby, while others are in effect limited to the heritage line only.

The Jacobite runs at up to 40mph on a line where the ScotRail services can run at up to 55mph in places.

 

[Bill57p9]

We went on the train last year (great experience) after being bumped the previous year as the lack of locking doors caused the firm to cancel trains for many weeks at the start of the season. Forgive my ignorance, but is it because the train is running on a mainline that the requirement for locking doors is needed?

The Railway Safety Regulations (1999) regulation 4 required the removal of rolling stock with hinged doors from passenger service unless fitted with centrally controlled door locking from 01 January 2005.

RSR only applies to passenger stock operating on railways with speeds above 25mph, hence does not apply to the vast majority preserved railways (AIUI the Great Central Railway has a specific method of operation). RSR does apply to trains operating at up to 25mph on railways with other trains operating above this speed.

RSR regulation 6 permits the Office of Road and Rail (ORR) to issue operator exemptions, which may be conditional. For many years ORR issued such exemptions to regulation 5 for main line operators of historic rolling stock typically on conditions of both:

• secondary door locks being fitted (typically shoot bolts)
• stewards operating the doors & locks, usually a minimum of 1 steward per vestibule (adjoining coach ends)

ORR clearly signalled in 2018 that the 5 year regulation 5 exemptions issued that year (typically expiring early 2023) would be the last.

NYMR‘s exemption was renewed in 2023 with additional limitations:

• Between Grosmont and Whitby only
• Maximum speed 25mph (line speed IIRC is 40mph)

This has been deemed acceptable because there are no passing loops between Grosmont and Whitby, and therefore there can only be 1 train on that railway.

A few other operators were granted extensions to their exemptions on the condition that they had an active programme to fit CDL.

WCRC have refused to fit CDL, and regarding The Jacobite, Fort William to Mallaig has ScotRail trains running at up to 55mph and passing The Jacobite.


For completeness, RSR regulation 4 required the removal of mark 1 rolling stock without crashworthiness enhancement work from the same date.

More info together with a list of active regulations 4 and 5 exemptions from ORR: https://www.orr.gov.uk/guidance-com...lling-stock/mark-1-and-hinged-door-exemptions

 

[3RDGEN]

NYMR‘s exemption was renewed in 2023 with additional limitations:

• Between Grosmont and Whitby only
• Maximum speed 25mph (line speed IIRC is 40mph)

This has been deemed acceptable because there are no passing loops between Grosmont and Whitby, and therefore there can only be 1 train on that railway.

NYMR have said the ORR have indicated that there will be no further extension to their exemption so NYMR will require some CDL fitted stock or finish running to Whitby.

ScotRail trains running at up to 55mph and passing The Jacobite.

The Jacobite / ScotRail services generally pass in station areas at low speeds with one or the other at a stand, occasionally they may pass at Fort William Junction with one train at some speed but again the other will be at a stand.

 

[Doombar]

Thank you for the comprehensive explanations. Having also travelled from Whitby to Pickering (return) it would be a shame if this journey was no longer available.

 

[Krokodil]

NYMR have said the ORR have indicated that there will be no further extension to their exemption so NYMR will require some CDL fitted stock or finish running to Whitby.

Presumably they're tapping up Tyseley for their designs.

Thank you for the comprehensive explanations. Having also travelled from Whitby to Pickering (return) it would be a shame if this journey was no longer available.

Isn't it quite a moneyspinner? They'd be foolish not to get the work done. Ditto David Smith...

 

[Bill57p9]

The Jacobite / ScotRail services generally pass in station areas at low speeds with one or the other at a stand, occasionally they may pass at Fort William Junction with one train at some speed but again the other will be at a stand.

Indeed, however that is still a passing mainline train, unlike the Whitby branch scenario where the only place the non-CDL stock can meet a mainline train is Whitby station itself, a terminus with substantial distance between the running lines.
Anyway, it is what it is. I am merely sharing the reported logic, not condoning nor commending it.

 

[Iskra]

WCRC are currently advertising for onboard stewards specifically for the Jacobite, so they must have plans for it to run.

 

[hexagon789]

WCRC are currently advertising for onboard stewards specifically for the Jacobite, so they must have plans for it to run.

Those appear to be for last year?

Taken from their recruitment page, the dates are for April to October 2023 and May to September last year - i.e. 2025.

RECRUITMENT AT WEST COAST RAILWAYS

​

Current opportunities with West Coast Railways​

We require additional stewards to work either full time or part time on board The Jacobite running from Fort William to Mallaig.
Job Description:
Seasonal Steward Onboard The Jacobite Steam Train Service
Position: Steward (Full and Part Time Opportunities), all age groups are welcome to apply.
Location: Fort William
Reports to: Train Manager
Rate of Pay: £12/hour
Working Times: 9:00 – 16:30 (3rd April to 27th October 2023) or 12:00 – 19:30 (1st May to 29th September 2025).

.

 

[AspiringDriver]

Those appear to be for last year?

Taken from their recruitment page, the dates are for April to October 2023 and May to September last year - i.e. 2025.

​

.

The dates given don’t match the running dates for last year, but if you ignore the year, they would make sense for this year - implying a start date of Good Friday, and then a Friday start for the afternoon service.

Advert perhaps a bad cut and paste job?

 

[hexagon789]

The dates given don’t match the running dates for last year, but if you ignore the year, they would make sense for this year - implying a start date of Good Friday, and then a Friday start for the afternoon service.

Advert perhaps a bad cut and paste job?

Could be I suppose

 

[AspiringDriver]

Could be I suppose

I maybe grasping at straws, because I’m waiting to book a couple of seats for a 70th birthday celebration trip. Got flights and hotel already booked, so we’ll be doing it on a ScotRail 156 if WCRC don’t sort themselves out!

 

[bleeder4]

I maybe grasping at straws, because I’m waiting to book a couple of seats for a 70th birthday celebration trip. Got flights and hotel already booked, so we’ll be doing it on a ScotRail 156 if WCRC don’t sort themselves out!

You'll have much cleaner windows on a 156 so will be able to see the scenery better, at a fraction of the price. If you want a ride on a steam train through the Highlands head over to Aviemore and get an Afternoon Tea service on the Strathspey Railway.

 

[Iskra]

Agreed, absolutely nothing wrong with doing it on a 156 at a fraction of the price.