WCML Ticket Barriers?

[MidnightFlyer]

As much as this may apply to some stations, Nuneaton definatley dosen't have that many staff there at all. People could just walk in and out as they please!

They tend to employ gateline staff At the very least they could make you show it at the booking clerk through the window and they buzz you through, but that only works where stations have their booking office window and gateline immediately next to each other. But as I say, most gateline, especially new ones, have dedicated members of staff manning them.

 

[matt]

Thank Christ for that.

And before anyone starts whining about ruining the fabric of the building, Coventry station concourse was built in the late 1960s and was designed to have barriers in the first place.

Well last time there was ticket barriers there (as opposed to manual barrier) there were only three ticket gates so was often long queues at the gates. The manual ticket barrier was much quicker.

 

[DarloRich]

it'd be virtually impossible to barrier the station, there are two entrances via stairs (one from car park, other from Linslade), a ramp from the car park, a narrow tunnel and the booking hall. You could probably do the booking hall although it might be a squeeze but the other 4 are out of the question. Berkhamsted would be easier although still a squeeze

I could have sworn there were ticket barriers in the main building at the Buzzard. My brain must be melting

 

[class222lover]

They tend to employ gateline staff At the very least they could make you show it at the booking clerk through the window and they buzz you through, but that only works where stations have their booking office window and gateline immediately next to each other. But as I say, most gateline, especially new ones, have dedicated members of staff manning them.

I stand corrected!

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Certain busy stations work well with barriers, where they are staffed continuously. Eg underground etc.
The problem comes is when they are left open it is a waste of an asset and time.
Many stations have multiple entrances. They need space for sufficient channels, so not to cause a crush, and a large emergency gate.
Fare dodgers soon get to know the open routine & encourages temptation to certain 'innocent' (lol) chancers.
The system used on the continent is in use 24 hrs a day. (Composter in France etc)
It is simply a machine that prints the information on the ticket that validates it for a certain journey. (No staff required)
Carnets tickets would be dated by the machine, no felt tip or biro problems eg FCC.
Any new barriers should print the information on the ticket. There is then no doubt to anyone that it has been used.

 

[edwin_m]

Some barriers, particularly the lesser one at a station with two entrances, have a video intercom where you can show the ticket to the camera. I've seen this at St Albans and Taunton.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I have noticed at Euston that Virgin staff inspect tickets prior to boarding during the peak but not during the off peak when I stead they inspect in the train. I have through there twice in the past few days travelling between London and Chester and this afternoon at the peak they were refusing quite a few people access. I can only assume they were trying it on with off peak tickets. One chap got quite agitated but the gate staff were excellent.

 

[Harlesden]

As someone born in the mid-1950's I am appalled by the totally unacceptable level of petty dishonesty in this country.
All staffed stations should be gated. If a TOC can't be bothered to staff a station, it must be prepared to accept the inevitable consequences.
I would be a very unpopular RPI as I genuinely have absolutely no respect for individuals who feel it is somehow acceptable to board a train at a staffed station without a valid ticket.
"I was running late" or "the queue for tickets was too long" seem like pathetic excuses to me.

 

[tractakid]

Can anyone please confirm whether or not Apsley or Kings Langley have ticket barriers? I'm looking to correct my list.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes think it might be down to platform length at some of the minor stations on the wolves-shrews line but not sure

ATW dont stop anywhere except Telford and Wellington Monday to Saturday though quirk in franchise agreements is that London Midland dont run Sundays all stations between Salop and Wolves but ATW have that "contract". Though they now run most stoppers as a 153 between Salop and Wolves rather than stop longer distance services.

 

[dvboy]

Gating Wolves would be interesting, where would they put them? The obvious answer is at the entrance to the concourse from the platforms, but that's a very limited, narrow space and sees a constant flow of people, unless they build out into the platform area like at Lincoln and Hereford?

Wolves was also supposed to be having the concourse completely rebuilt but funding has always been a problem, I doubt it will get barriers before that happens. If they were built onto the platform area, you'd have to close the bridge over to platforms 2 & 3.

 

[martinsh]

I could have sworn there were ticket barriers in the main building at the Buzzard. My brain must be melting

I'm pretty sure there were last time I was there. Maybe they have been removed ? As I said they were never actually in use when I went through (off peak weekday).

 

[Morden Via CHX]

ATW dont stop anywhere except Telford and Wellington Monday to Saturday though quirk in franchise agreements is that London Midland dont run Sundays all stations between Salop and Wolves but ATW have that "contract". Though they now run most stoppers as a 153 between Salop and Wolves rather than stop longer distance services.

They run a couple of late night ones from BHM, fast to Wolves where they couple with another unit and then all stops to Shrewsbury, probably just to get stock back to Shrews tbh.

 

[bnsf734]

Thank Christ for that.

And before anyone starts whining about ruining the fabric of the building, Coventry station concourse was built in the late 1960s and was designed to have barriers in the first place.

Coventry Station was opened in 1962, the same year as the Cathedral, and is now a listed building. I do remember the ticket barrier though, I think it was removed when open stations were introduced.

 

[NSEFAN]

Can anyone please confirm whether or not Apsley or Kings Langley have ticket barriers? I'm looking to correct my list.

Kings Langley does NOT have barriers. (this was the case at least last summer when I worked there). I'm pretty sure Apsley doesn't have barriers either.

 

[reb0118]

It's my view that no 'major' station should be an open station, as much as that'll upset the RailUK massive.

I have a slightly different perspective. Just a thought really. Leave the major stations unbarriered but with the provision for random checks. This will help with speeding up passenger flow through the station. Conversely ensure that outlying stations to a major conurbation are barriered from first train to last. This will also give added security to these outlying stations by ensuring a staff presence.

e.g. to use Aberdeen as an example. Leave Aberdeen ungated but gate Dyce, Inverurie, & Stonehaven

As such, a very large amount of revenue escapes the railway coffers and every tax payer picks up the tab.

Never understood why TOCs don't invest a small amount of money to recoup a far greater ammount ~ it makes business sense

 

[jon0844]

At larger stations, I'd say keep the gates but make sure there are enough of them. Don't look to gate a narrow section to save money, but if necessary use a wider area.

King's Cross has managed to do that very well, with the exception of the bridge upstairs.

 

[daccer]

I would assume that TOC's and Network Rail use certain tools to analysis the benefits of gates and the capital costs of installing them. For such an analysis to occur there must be some notion as to the amount of revenue being lost. Considering the fact that it is fare 'evasion' I was wondering how anyone can know what the true figure is and hence the gating issue is always going to be subjective and a bit hit and miss.

With regards to fare evasion maybe the slightly ad hoc nature of ticket checks and gates being left open on a seemingly random basis does actually deter the more regular fare avoider. Surely routine is the non-payers friend and allows them to formulate a plan to avoid paying on a regular basis. If the TOC's cant afford checks between every station and every station to be gated then maybe randomness is their best bet.

As a last point I don't travel on the UK system being a abroad at the moment but for those of you who do how often do you see someone getting pulled for no ticket or actively trying to bunk the gates etc. If it very infrequent then maybe the current system is working.

 

[gordonthemoron]

despite Bletchley having gates, they are often left open due to no staff presence.

 

[sheff1]

At larger stations, I'd say keep the gates but make sure there are enough of them. Don't look to gate a narrow section to save money, but if necessary use a wider area.

King's Cross has managed to do that very well, with the exception of the bridge upstairs.

And every time I have been through Kings Cross in the last six months the huge expanse of barriers have been locked open !

 

[jon0844]

They certainly are left open for most of the day (not sure about weekends) on platforms 0-8, which I guess is because most trains using those platforms have onboard checks - or at least onboard staff that could do checks.

FCC does still have trains coming into platforms 0-8 in the day, but it's fairly rare. From a fare evader point of view, you could risk looking up a service on opentraintimes or similar and seeing if your train is due in there - but platforms are subject to change and you might get caught out. FCC generally gate 9-11 most of the day, and it's later in the evening (circa 9pm) that they are left open.

I do think that FCC could keep a lot of undesirables off their late night trains if they kept the gates in operation at both KGX and FPK until 0136/0141. FCC obviously doesn't agree.

 

[Tibbs]

At larger stations, I'd say keep the gates but make sure there are enough of them. Don't look to gate a narrow section to save money, but if necessary use a wider area.

King's Cross has managed to do that very well, with the exception of the bridge upstairs.

I think you only need to look at 8-11 at Euston to see how not to do it. 4 really busy platforms and it's not uncommon in morning peak to have 2 packed trains unloading at once.

I'm not sure if it's the barriers per se, more the layout where there's a bottleneck both sides (on the platform side) so you can't get a decent flow to all the barriers at once.

It would be much better to barrier 8&9 and 10&11 separately somehow, possibly by turning the barriers through 90 degrees.

 

[island]

Then they'd need another excess window for people using 8/9.

As for why Virgin hasn't gated its stations to date, it clearly thinks that it is not a net positive thing to do, taking into account the cost (both of installation and of staffing the gates) as against the loss in revenue. For the Coventry to Wolverhampton stretch the fares are kept artificially low by Centro and Virgin's share of the revenue is probably relatively low anyhow, so it would not save a substantial amount of money by gating the stations it manages in that stretch.

 

[Tibbs]

Then they'd need another excess window for people using 8/9.

When is that excess fare window supposed to be open? It's had a closed sign up for a couple of weeks (as far as I've noticed), at least in the peak.

What sort of excess fares is it for, anyway?

 

[Butts]

Then they'd need another excess window for people using 8/9.

As for why Virgin hasn't gated its stations to date, it clearly thinks that it is not a net positive thing to do, taking into account the cost (both of installation and of staffing the gates) as against the loss in revenue. For the Coventry to Wolverhampton stretch the fares are kept artificially low by Centro and Virgin's share of the revenue is probably relatively low anyhow, so it would not save a substantial amount of money by gating the stations it manages in that stretch.

Having said that one glowering anomaly is the feed from Birmingham Airport via International to Birmingham New Street Sandwell & Dudley and Wolverhampton.

You are correct about the fares BHI to SAD a whopping £2.20 at certain times of the day

I have never had a ticket checked from BHI to SAD on Virgin - often but not always the same applies on the reverse journey.

 

[Pumbaa]

Can anyone please confirm whether or not Apsley or Kings Langley have ticket barriers? I'm looking to correct my list.

Apsley definitely doesn't (oops) - I checked this morning. I thought they skulked under the main entrance, but evidently not.

 

[Goatboy]

Even though (as I've posted in another thread today) it's causing rampant fare evasion between Coventry and Birmingham.

Well no, it's not. Permitting something is not the same as causing something.

 

[causton]

They certainly are left open for most of the day (not sure about weekends) on platforms 0-8, which I guess is because most trains using those platforms have onboard checks - or at least onboard staff that could do checks.

FCC does still have trains coming into platforms 0-8 in the day, but it's fairly rare. From a fare evader point of view, you could risk looking up a service on opentraintimes or similar and seeing if your train is due in there - but platforms are subject to change and you might get caught out. FCC generally gate 9-11 most of the day, and it's later in the evening (circa 9pm) that they are left open.

I do think that FCC could keep a lot of undesirables off their late night trains if they kept the gates in operation at both KGX and FPK until 0136/0141. FCC obviously doesn't agree.

You're forgetting you can walk between 8 and 9 at the north end and now in the middle of the platforms

...also I reckon FCC prefer the latter, as you can't penalty fare someone if they haven't got on the train yet instead the RPIs will board at FPK and then catch people and get a PF which will be more than the fare they would have paid if they got to KGX and saw the barriers open and bought a ticket home (or to Finsbury Park to get through the barriers )

 

[Mojo]

...also I reckon FCC prefer the latter, as you can't penalty fare someone if they haven't got on the train yet instead the RPIs will board at FPK and then catch people and get a PF which will be more than the fare they would have paid if they got to KGX and saw the barriers open and bought a ticket home (or to Finsbury Park to get through the barriers )

They could do if they made the platforms on the western side a Compulsory Ticket Area, although I remember a few years ago seeing 180s here regularly, so it is possible that this would not be possible under the current rules.

 

[transmanche]

...also I reckon FCC prefer the latter, as you can't penalty fare someone if they haven't got on the train yet instead the RPIs will board at FPK and then catch people and get a PF which will be more than the fare they would have paid if they got to KGX and saw the barriers open and bought a ticket home (or to Finsbury Park to get through the barriers )

Although buying a ticket to just Finsbury Park shows intent to avoid payment - which means FCC could go down the prosecution route and then settle out of court for a much higher amount than a straightforward PF!