WCML Ticket Barriers?

[class222lover]

Hi guys!

Recently I've been travelling up and down the WCML and noticed that most stations (not saying all), don't have ticket barriers. Giving an example of Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby.

Maybe it's that Virgin and London Midland trust their customers of not travelling without a ticket?

But why is this?!

Kind Regards
Class222lover

 

[David Goddard]

Virgin dont want their customers inconvenienced by the wretched things.

 

[DarloRich]

Hi guys!

Recently I've been travelling up and down the WCML and noticed that most stations (not saying all), don't have ticket barriers. Giving an example of Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby.

Maybe it's that Virgin and London Midland trust their customers of not travelling without a ticket?

But why is this?!

Kind Regards
Class222lover

The ones south of Rugby all seem to have barriers, including those stations served by Virgin such as MKC & Watford

 

[Eagle]

Even though (as I've posted in another thread today) it's causing rampant fare evasion between Coventry and Birmingham. But hey, if it saves passengers ten seconds then it's all good, right?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Of course Coventry did have barriers until Centro refused to pay Virgin their contribution towards the running of the gates, so Virgin removed them. (Or along those lines, it's certainly to do with Centro not paying up for something.)

I will agree though: LM, XC and Virgin must be losing thousands on that corridor.

 

[dvboy]

I believe it was Central Trains, rather than Centro.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hi guys!

Recently I've been travelling up and down the WCML and noticed that most stations (not saying all), don't have ticket barriers. Giving an example of Crewe, Tamworth, Nuneaton, Rugby.

Maybe it's that Virgin and London Midland trust their customers of not travelling without a ticket?

But why is this?!

Kind Regards
Class222lover

It was not part of their 1997-2012 franchise commitment (and still isn't).
The 2012 franchise contract would have put them in but that's dead for the moment.
Who wants barriers anyway?
Open stations was one of the best ideas BR ever had.
There are hardly any barriers on the continent.

 

[Eagle]

It was not part of their 1997-2012 franchise commitment (and still isn't).

Tamworth and Nuneaton are operated by LM (formerly Central).

 

[YorkshireBear]

It was not part of their 1997-2012 franchise commitment (and still isn't).
The 2012 franchise contract would have put them in but that's dead for the moment.
Who wants barriers anyway?
Open stations was one of the best ideas BR ever had.
There are hardly any barriers on the continent.

The continent generally has people who don't think fare evasion isn't stealing.

I even know a police officer who believes fare evasion isn't a crime.

 

[samxool]

even when they do have barriers, if you don't have a tiket, just head for the wide gate for prams and the disabled. they stay open so long you don't even need to stay particularly close to the person in front to get though

 

[the sniper]

The TOCs involved don't want to pay for gates and the current franchises don't give them any incentive to do so. A reasonably significant minority of passengers don't buy tickets. As such, a very large amount of revenue escapes the railway coffers and every tax payer picks up the tab.

It's my view that no 'major' station should be an open station, as much as that'll upset the RailUK massive.

 

[tractakid]

A summary of southern WCML stations, station operator in brackets. When I was unsure I used the maps on NRE, apologies if those maps are out of date and barriers have been installed recently.

Euston, partial with some manual checks, (NR)
Queen's Park, yes, (LU)
Wembley Central, yes, (LU)
Harrow and Wealdstone, yes, (LU)
Bushey, no, (LO)
Watford Junction, yes, (LM)
Kings Langley, no, (LM)
Apsley, no, (LM)
Hemel Hempstead, yes, (LM)
Berkhamsted, no, (LM)
Tring, no, (LM)
Cheddington, no, (LM)
Leighton Buzzard, no, (LM)
Bletchley, yes, (LM)
Milton Keynes Central, yes, (LM)
Wolverton, no, (LM)
Northampton, yes, (LM)
Long Buckby, no, (LM)
Rugby, no, (VT).

 

[causton]

As you say, the maps must not be updated very frequently as now access to the WCML mainline platforms at Wembley Central is through the main concourse, so you do go through barriers there as well now

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Travelled from Wolverhampton to Coventry the last three Sundays and have only had my ticket checked once, and that was on an ATW service, where I'd wager good money the check only took place because the train manager wanted to make sure that passengers were in the right carriage for their destinations (anyone travelling to stations beyond Wolverhampton on the Wolves-Shrewsbury line must travel in the front three coaches). I'd imagine fare evasion to be quite bad Cov-Wolves tbh.

 

[Geezertronic]

... (anyone travelling to stations beyond Wolverhampton on the Wolves-Shrewsbury line must travel in the front three coaches).

Front three coaches? ATW run doubled 2 coach 158s don't they?

 

[IanXC]

It's my view that no 'major' station should be an open station, as much as that'll upset the RailUK massive.

I'd generally agree. There will always be some stations where the layout makes barriers too difficult, but other than that there should be an assumption in favour.

The problem with ticket barriers is not so much the concept, as much as TOC unwillingness to ensure they are programmed correctly, and in some cases provide adequate training for staff manning them.

 

[Pumbaa]

A summary of southern WCML stations, station operator in brackets. When I was unsure I used the maps on NRE, apologies if those maps are out of date and barriers have been installed recently.

Euston, partial with some manual checks, (NR)
Queen's Park, yes, (LU)
Wembley Central, no (DC platforms only), (LU)
Harrow and Wealdstone, yes, (LU)
Bushey, no, (LO)
Watford Junction, yes, (LM)
Kings Langley, no, (LM)
Apsley, no, (LM)
Hemel Hempstead, yes, (LM)
Berkhamsted, no, (LM)
Tring, no, (LM)
Cheddington, no, (LM)
Leighton Buzzard, no, (LM)
Bletchley, yes, (LM)
Milton Keynes Central, yes, (LM)
Wolverton, no, (LM)
Northampton, yes, (LM)
Long Buckby, no, (LM)
Rugby, no, (VT).

Kings Langley, Apsley, Berko and the Buzzard definitely have barriers.

 

[Tibbs]

Kings Langley, Apsley, Berko and the Buzzard definitely have barriers.

Don't you think 'Berko and the Buzzard' should be some kind of 80s US sitcom?

Anyway, I do find it odd that Watford High Street has barriers but Bushey doesn't - I guess LM won't pay for their share of the traffic at Bushey.

 

[martinsh]

Kings Langley, Apsley, Berko and the Buzzard definitely have barriers.

Correct, but I've NEVER seen them actually in use !

 

[gordonthemoron]

Berko and Leighton Buzzard definitely have no barriers, I use these stations often

 

[scrapy]

It was not part of their 1997-2012 franchise commitment (and still isn't).
The 2012 franchise contract would have put them in but that's dead for the moment.
Who wants barriers anyway?
Open stations was one of the best ideas BR ever had.
There are hardly any barriers on the continent.

On talking to a member of Virgin trains staff, barriering some stations is part of their agreement with the DFT for its original 2 year franchise extension. Wolverhampton and Stockport will be done, along with 2 others (rumoured to be Euston and Coventry).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Gating Wolves would be interesting, where would they put them? The obvious answer is at the entrance to the concourse from the platforms, but that's a very limited, narrow space and sees a constant flow of people, unless they build out into the platform area like at Lincoln and Hereford?

 

[Tibbs]

Probably most by % number of passengers, but not by % of stations.

I'm sure someone on here would be able to fish out the exact numbers!

 

[transportphoto]

I should imagine there are more unstaffed stations than staffed stations. It is is therefore impossible for more stations to be barriered than unbarriered as barriers have to be staffed.

TP

 

[DarloRich]

Berko and Leighton Buzzard definitely have no barriers, I use these stations often

I thought the Buzzard did have barriers!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I thought the Buzzard did have barriers!

it'd be virtually impossible to barrier the station, there are two entrances via stairs (one from car park, other from Linslade), a ramp from the car park, a narrow tunnel and the booking hall. You could probably do the booking hall although it might be a squeeze but the other 4 are out of the question. Berkhamsted would be easier although still a squeeze

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Front three coaches? ATW run doubled 2 coach 158s don't they?

Yes think it might be down to platform length at some of the minor stations on the wolves-shrews line but not sure

 

[telstarbox]

Do most stations these days have ticket barriers installed to stop people bybassing and avoiding paying for tickets

Some of the busiest stations don't have automatic barriers, including Manchester Piccadilly, Sheffield and Birmingham New Street (unless they are going in as part of the rebuild?)

Barriers are most common on lines with driver-only operation and high volumes of passengers, such as the SWT/Southern/Southeastern metro lines into London. As the stations are only a few minutes apart and there are lots of passengers on each train, guards can't get round to check tickets and so in theory barriers do a better job*.

On rural lines such as the Hope Valley Line or the Cumbrian Coast, the cost of installing the barriers would be too high relative to the resultant drop in fare evasion.

*although they are not foolproof, as methods such as 'doughnutting' can be used

 

[class222lover]

I should imagine there are more unstaffed stations than staffed stations. It is is therefore impossible for more stations to be barriered than unbarriered as barriers have to be staffed.

TP

As much as this may apply to some stations, Nuneaton definatley dosen't have that many staff there at all. People could just walk in and out as they please!

 

[Eagle]

On talking to a member of Virgin trains staff, barriering some stations is part of their agreement with the DFT for its original 2 year franchise extension. Wolverhampton and Stockport will be done, along with 2 others (rumoured to be Euston and Coventry).

Thank Christ for that.

And before anyone starts whining about ruining the fabric of the building, Coventry station concourse was built in the late 1960s and was designed to have barriers in the first place.