Water Shortages / Drought

[STEVIEBOY1]

I was wondering about the following, in view of the recent extreme hot weather and now possible water shortages / drought etc.

Apparently, there is a spring that discharges loads of fresh water into the Severn Railway Tunnel, that is then just pumped out into the River. It is a shame that is can not be channelled into pipelines around that area and onwards to various storage reservoirs which could supply places like Bristol, Cardiff and even a bit further afield, such as Cheltenham, Gloucester and Birmingham etc.

 

[DarloRich]

we would do better if we didn't waste water and allow so much to leak away!

 

[DelW]

I was wondering about the following, in view of the recent extreme hot weather and now possible water shortages / drought etc.

Apparently, there is a spring that discharges loads of fresh water into the Severn Railway Tunnel, that is then just pumped out into the River. It is a shame that is can not be channelled into pipelines around that area and onwards to various storage reservoirs which could supply places like Bristol, Cardiff and even a bit further afield, such as Cheltenham, Gloucester and Birmingham etc.

That water has been used in the past, indeed I think that there were some factories in Sudbrook (near the west end of the tunnel) which were located there specifically to take advantage of the water supply.

However I don't know whether any use is made of the water now.

P.S. No need for a Minister of Drought, just schedule more Test Matches in south east England. No play at Lords from 2:15 because of torrential rain - in fact play now abandoned for the day at 4:30.
(I know we need sustained rain for a period to actually alleviate the drought).

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

we would do better if we didn't waste water and allow so much to leak away!

Yes, that is very true too.

 

[GS250]

To be fair in NW Greater London its barely rained all year. A few light showers here and there but very little rain of any substance. We've possibly had as much rain though in the last 3 hours that we've had in the last 6 months. Its literally been that dry.

 

[Doppelganger]

we would do better if we didn't waste water and allow so much to leak away!

3 billion litres of water is lost in leaks in England and Wales every day.

That is scary.

Apparently the average person uses 142 litres per day, so that 3 billion is the equivalent of over 21 million people.

The water companies are taking the Mick and why are the public standing for it?

 

[DelW]

3 billion litres of water is lost in leaks in England and Wales every day.

That is scary.

Apparently the average person uses 142 litres per day, so that 3 billion is the equivalent of over 21 million people.

The water companies are taking the Mick and why are the public standing for it?

What do you suggest that "the public" do about it? Whatever that is, is it something you're doing yourself, and is it working?

 

[eMeS]

3 billion litres of water is lost in leaks in England and Wales every day.

That is scary.

Apparently the average person uses 142 litres per day, so that 3 billion is the equivalent of over 21 million people.

The water companies are taking the Mick and why are the public standing for it?

I was in "Environmental Management" when Mrs T privatised the water companies; and separately (?) the sewerage companies. Our lecturers were all quite positive that this was a "good thing" as previously when they were under local authority control, it was impossible to sue them. (No meters for domestic users either...) What I fear has gone wrong is that no one thought that for utilities like these, the Government should also have kept a golden share - which they didn't, and many are now in foreign ownership.

 

[Doppelganger]

What do you suggest that "the public" do about it? Whatever that is, is it something you're doing yourself, and is it working?

I suggest the public stop voting for shysters.

What have I done? I left the UK more than 10 years ago. Best thing I did. I do have the advantage of being on the outside side looking in. It's not great viewing as your problems are now all coming to a head. This is what a systematic raid of your national assets has done and now what's left? The NHS is next, but will "the public" doing anything or just placate their overlords as usual...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2022 ==

I was in "Environmental Management" when Mrs T privatised the water companies; and separately (?) the sewerage companies. Our lecturers were all quite positive that this was a "good thing" as previously when they were under local authority control, it was impossible to sue them. (No meters for domestic users either...) What I fear has gone wrong is that no one thought that for utilities like these, the Government should also have kept a golden share - which they didn't, and many are now in foreign ownership.

Rampant capitalism, isn't it great?

 

[Ashley Hill]

That water has been used in the past, indeed I think that there were some factories in Sudbrook (near the west end of the tunnel) which were located there specifically to take advantage of the water supply.

Water from the Great Spring was and maybe still is used by the Cattybrook Brick Co (now part of Ibstock). I understand it also supplied a paper works too.

 

[DelW]

I suggest the public stop voting for shysters.

What have I done? I left the UK more than 10 years ago. Best thing I did. I do have the advantage of being on the outside side looking in. It's not great viewing as your problems are now all coming to a head. This is what a systematic raid of your national assets has done and now what's left? The NHS is next, but will "the public" doing anything or just placate their overlords as usual...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2022 ==


Rampant capitalism, isn't it great?

These figures are from four years ago, when the UK (at 23% leakage) was midway in a European table that ran from Netherlands at best (5%) to Ireland at worst (47%).
(The table is halfway down the page).

Reality Check: Have water companies cut leaks by a third?

Consumers are being asked not to waste water, but how much do water companies waste through leakage?

www.bbc.co.uk

It would be interesting to compare with Scotland, where Scottish Water wasn't privatised, but so far I haven't been able to find comparable figures.

 

[Doppelganger]

These figures are from four years ago, when the UK (at 23% leakage) was midway in a European table that ran from Netherlands at best (5%) to Ireland at worst (47%).
(The table is halfway down the page).

That's just whataboutary though isn't it?

The issues are with England and Wales in particular and a lot has been said about how much is currently being lost to leaks, the fact the Netherlands or Ireland has that problem is for them to solve. And shouldn't detract from the side state of the infrastructure.

Scotland might be an interesting comparison, but they don't fleece their customers in the same way.

 

[DelW]

That's just whataboutary though isn't it?

Comparisons with the range of values achieved in similar countries puts the values being talked about here into context. Obviously 0% is desirable but impractical, so peer comparisons are instructive.

 

[TwoYellas]

I suggest the public stop voting for shysters.

What have I done? I left the UK more than 10 years ago. Best thing I did. I do have the advantage of being on the outside side looking in. It's not great viewing as your problems are now all coming to a head. This is what a systematic raid of your national assets has done and now what's left? The NHS is next, but will "the public" doing anything or just placate their overlords as usual...

The public have been persuaded that the problem is the 'woke'.

 

[eMeS]

Leaks...
I suspect one of our problems is that many of our pipes may still be iron, rather than plastic, making them susceptible to damage to the roads from heavy axle weight lorries. In my area of MK, I noticed a drop in rising main water pressure a few months ago, and recently, I've seen quite a lot of water company contractors working on the supply.

BUT we can always expect OFWAT to police the water suppliers on our behalf ....

 

[DelayRepay]

Leaks...
I suspect one of our problems is that many of our pipes may still be iron, rather than plastic, making them susceptible to damage to the roads from heavy axle weight lorries. In my area of MK, I noticed a drop in rising main water pressure a few months ago, and recently, I've seen quite a lot of water company contractors working on the supply.

BUT we can always expect OFWAT to police the water suppliers on our behalf ....

I also live in MK and had regular problems with my water pressure for the first couple of years after I moved in. The problem I think was related to lots of new houses being built in this area. There was a big programme of work (including lots of road closures) and now the situation is much better.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2022 ==

I've got a water meter. This encourages lower usage to an extent. E.g. I collect rain water for the garden (although my water butts have been empty for a while). Because the bills are quite low, I don't think the meter does as much to focus the mind on consumption of water as gas and electricity.

My mum wants a water meter because she lives on her own in a large house - she would save a lot of money. However after a wait of several months, the first engineer declared that he could not fit one, despite her house being exactly the same layout as her neighbour who does have one. Another appointment is now booked, but it's been a long wait.

 

[JamesT]

That's just whataboutary though isn't it?

The issues are with England and Wales in particular and a lot has been said about how much is currently being lost to leaks, the fact the Netherlands or Ireland has that problem is for them to solve. And shouldn't detract from the side state of the infrastructure.

Scotland might be an interesting comparison, but they don't fleece their customers in the same way.

Surely it's entirely relevant? Given many seem to be calling for the water companies to be nationalised as this will somehow magically fix the infrastructure and lower costs.
But as it appears from that report that our leaks are about average as are our bills, then it seems unlikely that such a change would produce massive differences.
Scotland is a good comparison as it provides the closest example of what would a nationalised English water system look like. They started off in the same place so it's not like comparing with other European countries that have had historically different systems.
Scotland has chosen a policy of lower bills, but how has that affected their investment in their infrastructure? There has been a lot of anger over sewage being dumped in rivers, does Scotland have less of that? (Answer is we don't know, as there is much less monitoring in Scotland).

Leaks...
I suspect one of our problems is that many of our pipes may still be iron, rather than plastic, making them susceptible to damage to the roads from heavy axle weight lorries. In my area of MK, I noticed a drop in rising main water pressure a few months ago, and recently, I've seen quite a lot of water company contractors working on the supply.

BUT we can always expect OFWAT to police the water suppliers on our behalf ....

Yes, Ofwat do seem to be suffering from regulatory capture. Maybe it's time to reset their goals so they encourage more proactive investment?

 

[Ashley Hill]

the first engineer declared that he could not fit one,

My first house was a cottage and we were told we couldn’t have a meter as there was nowhere suitable to put one. We were therefore given a discount on our water bills.

 

[JamesT]

I've got a water meter. This encourages lower usage to an extent. E.g. I collect rain water for the garden (although my water butts have been empty for a while). Because the bills are quite low, I don't think the meter does as much to focus the mind on consumption of water as gas and electricity.

My mum wants a water meter because she lives on her own in a large house - she would save a lot of money. However after a wait of several months, the first engineer declared that he could not fit one, despite her house being exactly the same layout as her neighbour who does have one. Another appointment is now booked, but it's been a long wait.

I requested a water meter as I live by myself in a nominally 3-bed house. Like your mum, the engineer came and declared one couldn't be fitted. Which wasn't surprising, the stopcock where they'd normally put one is in a cramped cupboard with the gas and electric meters.
However, once they'd declared I couldn't have a meter, I was then eligible for the Single Occupier Tariff. Which this year is £23.70/month (Thames Water). I think the 'normal' rate for a house of my size would be more like £60/month.
Rather than chasing a meter, it might be worth seeing if her provider has such a tariff?

 

[Cloud Strife]

I've got a water meter. This encourages lower usage to an extent. E.g. I collect rain water for the garden (although my water butts have been empty for a while). Because the bills are quite low, I don't think the meter does as much to focus the mind on consumption of water as gas and electricity.

Here in Poland, we have two meters. One meter is for inside water, and sewage is charged on the basis of water usage. So if you use 1m3 of water, you pay for 1m3 of sewage too. The outdoor meter isn't charged this way, so you only pay for the water, not the sewage.

 

[DelayRepay]

I requested a water meter as I live by myself in a nominally 3-bed house. Like your mum, the engineer came and declared one couldn't be fitted. Which wasn't surprising, the stopcock where they'd normally put one is in a cramped cupboard with the gas and electric meters.
However, once they'd declared I couldn't have a meter, I was then eligible for the Single Occupier Tariff. Which this year is £23.70/month (Thames Water). I think the 'normal' rate for a house of my size would be more like £60/month.
Rather than chasing a meter, it might be worth seeing if her provider has such a tariff?

He said he couldn't fit one, rather than one couldn't be fitted. He arranged another appointment for someone else. No idea what the problem was though, and why the next person will be able to do it. She'd be happy with the reduced tariff but they said she's not eligible because she can in fact have a meter, just not fitted by the first guy they sent.

 

[TheBigD]

I requested a water meter as I live by myself in a nominally 3-bed house. Like your mum, the engineer came and declared one couldn't be fitted. Which wasn't surprising, the stopcock where they'd normally put one is in a cramped cupboard with the gas and electric meters.
However, once they'd declared I couldn't have a meter, I was then eligible for the Single Occupier Tariff. Which this year is £23.70/month (Thames Water). I think the 'normal' rate for a house of my size would be more like £60/month.
Rather than chasing a meter, it might be worth seeing if her provider has such a tariff?

I have a water meter in my 4 bed house. I live alone and pay £12 a month. I'm also in credit on my account. The virtually double £23.70 a month sounds on the high side to me. I'm with Anglian Water though so their prices may be different to Thames Water.

 

[DelayRepay]

A silly question but are we supposed to submit water meter readings? I never have and I thought it was automatic.

I ask because...

I have a water meter in my 4 bed house. I live alone and pay £12 a month. I'm also in credit on my account. The virtually double £23.70 a month sounds on the high side to me. I'm with Anglian Water though so their prices may be different to Thames Water.

I live in a three bed house, on my own, and am paying £25 p/m. I am also with Anglian Water. And I don't think I use a lot of water - rarely take baths and never use the 'mains' water for the garden.

 

[Gloster]

My company (Southern) sends round somebody twice a year to read the water meter under the pavement in front of the house. The bill has gone up, but at my new house it was just over £70 for just under eight months: I am a single occupant and am sparing with water. There was also a problem with the company’s inability to understand that I wanted to take over the account at my new house, but was still paying for my unsold old one: this seemed to be beyond their little brains to encompass.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A silly question but are we supposed to submit water meter readings? I never have and I thought it was automatic.

Is your water supply metered?

If so, then, as @Gloster has just mentioned, if the water supply meter is accessible from outside your property, it is entirely possible that a meter reader has been round every six months or so to take accurate readings. You should really be able to tell from your bill statements (online or paper as the case may be) as to whether you've had actual meter readings, estimated readings or maybe whether you're not actually being metered at all!

 

[DelayRepay]

Is your water supply metered?

If so, then, as @Gloster has just mentioned, if the water supply meter is accessible from outside your property, it is entirely possible that a meter reader has been round every six months or so to take accurate readings. You should really be able to tell from your bill statements (online or paper as the case may be) as to whether you've had actual meter readings, estimated readings or maybe whether you're not actually being metered at all!

Prompted by this discussion, I logged into my water account. I've had meter readings, but the last one was in April 2021. The ones since then have been estimated but the estimation appears reasonable based on previous usage.

I don't remember the meter ever being read so it must be publicly accessible.

When i had a meter installed in my old flat, the guy who installed it said I wouldn't need to send readings because it was read automatically by a device attached to the bin lorry. Did he make that up?

 

[JamesT]

I have a water meter in my 4 bed house. I live alone and pay £12 a month. I'm also in credit on my account. The virtually double £23.70 a month sounds on the high side to me. I'm with Anglian Water though so their prices may be different to Thames Water.

I can’t find a reference now, but I’m sure when I signed up they claimed the single user tariff was based on average usage by single households on a meter. Anglian don’t have an exactly equivalent tariff so it’s hard to compare between the two companies.

 

[DelayRepay]

I can’t find a reference now, but I’m sure when I signed up they claimed the single user tariff was based on average usage by single households on a meter. Anglian don’t have an exactly equivalent tariff so it’s hard to compare between the two companies.

I wonder if @TheBigD's £12 includes sewerage. That's listed as a separate charge on my bill and accounts for about half of what I pay.

 

[oldman]

It would be interesting to compare with Scotland, where Scottish Water wasn't privatised, but so far I haven't been able to find comparable figures.

Not obviously any better. According to Scottish Water:

Over the last 16 years, Scottish Water has reduced leakage from 1104ML/d to 463Ml/d, and continues to target leakage.

Daily output is 1.5 billion. There has been some restriction of abstraction by agriculture and industry in the east, particularly Berwickshire; tap water has been OK.

Domestic charges (water and sewerage) are based on council tax bands and run from about £320 to £950 per annum, with 25% single occupant discount.

 

[TheBigD]

I wonder if @TheBigD's £12 includes sewerage. That's listed as a separate charge on my bill and accounts for about half of what I pay.

Yes it does.
Also since I moved house, my new place does not benefit from a reduction for sustainable drainage like my old place used to.