Wales RUS consultation published

[Proud Salopian]

They DO NOT read this Forum.

I know.

(Saying that, perhaps they do for a laugh now and again?)

If you want them to know about something then YOU have to do some work and email or write to them.

And here's where my grasp of reality differs with your supposed grasp. I don't bother about informing them of stuff they already know. They know perfectly well what's what at Shrewsbury and at other stations in Shropshire and how rammed their trains are on the Marches route. They also don't care. And I know that. And they know that I know that. Et cetera.

I love how you slate me for being a "keyboard warrior". Except that I'm not "at war" with anyone so can't be a "warrior". I'm not trying to change the world because I know it's futile. (And I'm acutely aware that if you are going to try to change something, rambling (or tweeting or whatever is fashionable at the moment) on the internet is an utter waste of electrons.) And in any case, what really is the difference between a "keyboard warrior" who rants away on internet forums and another person who writes futile letters to companies, local rags, etc?

The only thing that would make a company like ATW sit up is if revenue/profits dropped. However, ATW is a government-sanctioned monopoly, whose only 'rival' along the Marches corridor is the A49 (ie the Highways Agency... another monopoly!) I now rarely go by train and instead use the A49. But passenger numbers do continue to rise and so long as that happens the money flows in and all is well (for them). When I travel, infrequently, to London I actually drive half the way and then use Chiltern... who have proper competition (the M40 & West Coast Mainline) and therefore actually care for their passengers, as otherwise they'd lose them to the alternatives. This is how the world works. Chiltern aren't the great TOC they are because some people wrote some letters to them.

 

[chris_in_salop]

I'm also in Shrewsbury, but I recognise that it is a relative backwater. The whole country's rail infrastructure is crying out for more funding to cope with 15-20 years of passenger growth, and realistically Shrewsbury's toilets don't come up that high on the priority list. They aren't that bad anyway (especially when compared to Chester or Wolverhampton).

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm also in Shrewsbury, but I recognise that it is a relative backwater. The whole country's rail infrastructure is crying out for more funding to cope with 15-20 years of passenger growth, and realistically Shrewsbury's toilets don't come up that high on the priority list. They aren't that bad anyway (especially when compared to Chester or Wolverhampton).

Exactly, and I think your town compatriot's comment in his last paragraph says it all about him!

The negativity about the railway system by some members of this forum annoys and horrifies me,especially when they (almost) proudly admit that they don't actually use the railway. Perhaps some of them should realise how good it has become in this area lately.

(Gareth is excluded from those comments!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It does not tell the Company, be that NR or ATW what you consider to be a problem. They DO NOT read this Forum.

I think that an exception would have been made about the "Fantasy reopening of the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line" thread that recently appeared upon this website, especially to those in ATW, as the reading of some of the aspirational postings have led to outbreaks of uncontrollable laughter in some railway establishments. Just the tonic when you are in the messroom after a hard day or in the offices, having just fielded your 100th irate call of the day from a traveller....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chiltern aren't the great TOC they are because some people wrote some letters to them.

You do realise Chiltern and ATW are owned by the same people - Arriva/DB?
Because of the different franchise agreements Chiltern has more incentive to improve its services than ATW.
Writing to ATW is pointless with the franchise being rebid soon - they are just marking time.
Better write to the Welsh Government who are in charge of the spec for the rebid.
On the general provision of toilet facilities, much of that is down to NR policy and their standards are well below those at airports.
I wouldn't say Shrewsbury is exceptionally bad, though.
Crewe is significantly worse.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Exactly, and I think your town compatriot's comment in his last paragraph says it all about him!

...especially when they (almost) proudly admit that they don't actually use the railway. Perhaps some of them should realise how good it has become in this area lately.

So because I don't use the railways that often (any more - I used to) I can't comment about them?

Great attitude. I'm a second class citizen, clearly. Apparently I can be entirely judged by that "last paragraph" of mine, which basically says that around here I drive mostly. Well, guess what? That might be in part because of ATW's trains and stations. (And London Midland et al.) I'd love to use the railways more, and elsewhere in the country (and indeed, the world) I do.

I've had this problem on this forum before. Say anything negative or controversial about the railways (how they're run, etc) and you're made into a pariah.

You do realise Chiltern and ATW are owned by the same people - Arriva/DB?
Because of the different franchise agreements Chiltern has more incentive to improve its services than ATW.

Yes. EXACTLY. A state-sanctioned monopoly (ie a "franchise") in one place means a different level of attentiveness by the monopoly owner than in another place, even when the same owner owns the two. You've exactly added to my point.

Writing to ATW is pointless...

Corrrect.

Ultimately the best weapon an individual like me has is to 'vote' with my wallet. Don't add to ATW's revenues. Alas, because many other people don't have the option to chose an alternative method of transport (and of course - thanks to the monopoly - can't chose their TOC on the route) ticket monies will continue to roll in for ATW. [This is also the reason why millions pack onto overcrowded trains into London every day - they'd love to chose an alternative, but can't. Out here "in the sticks" there is also a lack of choice and it also leads to overcrowding... the difference being that adding to capacity on the Marches services is relatively easy: you simply add a extra carriage or two to the trains!]

I can only hope that any new franchise agreement is tougher and will force the purchase of more rolling stock and make improvements to stations. We'll see..

 

[merlodlliw]

I note in todays local daily, The Daily Post, a Deeside business leader is not so sure about Network Rails RUS plans for North East Wales, its rather long so heres the link

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/deeside-business-chief-sceptical-over-8780938

It seems the idea of Electrics between Wrexham and Bidston is now on the back burner.

 

[chris_in_salop]

There's this unwordly attitude among our local yokels that Shropshire is the victim of a wicked conspiracy to deny it the masses of investment that it surely deserves. You hear it in the bleatings on the comments pages of the local rag, where lots of people are outraged that the A49 has not yet been upgraded to a six lane motorway. Similarly there's massive anger that no-one is treating the problems of Wem level crossing as the major international issue that they feel it is, surely comparable to Russia's incursion into the Ukraine.

Personally I think the rail service of Shropshire is stronger today than it has been for a long time. The fact that the Heart of Wales line still exists, with daily services to such throbbing centres as Broome and Hopton Heath, is quite incredible. Far larger towns elsewhere in England have nothing like the service those little villages enjoy.

 

[Gareth Marston]

There's this unwordly attitude among our local yokels that Shropshire is the victim of a wicked conspiracy to deny it the masses of investment that it surely deserves. You hear it in the bleatings on the comments pages of the local rag, where lots of people are outraged that the A49 has not yet been upgraded to a six lane motorway. Similarly there's massive anger that no-one is treating the problems of Wem level crossing as the major international issue that they feel it is, surely comparable to Russia's incursion into the Ukraine.

Personally I think the rail service of Shropshire is stronger today than it has been for a long time. The fact that the Heart of Wales line still exists, with daily services to such throbbing centres as Broome and Hopton Heath, is quite incredible. Far larger towns elsewhere in England have nothing like the service those little villages enjoy.

A sense of proportion and an understanding of the bigger picture is so often lacking in local complaints take the frothing at the mouth about my home Newtown apparently needing a bypass. According to the local bypass brigade the empty shops in the town centre and the fact that a multinational company has not opened a branch factory in the town bringing hundreds of jobs is all to with the horrendous traffic problems that are a national priority that the "idiots" in Cardiff ignore because Mid Wales doesn't vote Labour. Of course there's been a global recession and Tesco opened a store in the town in 2010 that they seemingly forget as well as having no understanding of how modern business chooses location and likes agglomeration and skills pools that Mid Wales doesn't have.

 

[merlodlliw]

There's this unwordly attitude among our local yokels that Shropshire is the victim of a wicked conspiracy to deny it the masses of investment that it surely deserves. You hear it in the bleatings on the comments pages of the local rag, where lots of people are outraged that the A49 has not yet been upgraded to a six lane motorway. Similarly there's massive anger that no-one is treating the problems of Wem level crossing as the major international issue that they feel it is, surely comparable to Russia's incursion into the Ukraine.

Personally I think the rail service of Shropshire is stronger today than it has been for a long time. The fact that the Heart of Wales line still exists, with daily services to such throbbing centres as Broome and Hopton Heath, is quite incredible. Far larger towns elsewhere in England have nothing like the service those little villages enjoy.

I suppose you could say the same of other larger towns in North Wales,such as Corwen/Ruthin & Denbigh who lost BR services 60 years ago, I presume the rail service at Shrewsbury is what you have in mind.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I suppose you could say the same of other larger towns in North Wales,such as Corwen/Ruthin & Denbigh who lost BR services 60 years ago, I presume the rail service at Shrewsbury is what you have in mind.

As much as I would have liked to see Corwen, Ruthin and Denbigh remain connected to the rail network, they are hardly in the same league as Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

As much as I would have liked to see Corwen, Ruthin and Denbigh remain connected to the rail network, they are hardly in the same league as Shrewsbury.

Of course, Shrewsbury is one of the key ATW managed hubs, I was just comparing Broome & Hopton Heath villages.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Of course, Shrewsbury is one of the key ATW managed hubs, I was just comparing Broome & Hopton Heath villages.

Ah, my mistake!

 

[merlodlliw]

Ah, my mistake!

No problem.

 

[kieron]

Resiting Shotton as one interchange station looks good, but not if there are still only 1tph on the two routes.

It just looks like a green octagon to me, in other words an aspiration rather than any sort of plan.

It's not one I share, though. Only one of the current platforms meets the accessibility requirements, and the routes between the bottom line and the Wrexham platform (in particular) is circuitous, and isn't sheltered from the rain.

On the other hand, the platforms on the top line are roughly where someone using the line would want them. They're convenient for accessing what there is of the town centre, and they're close to the town centre bus stops. The bottom line platforms aren't convenient for much apart from the railway.

There are plenty of other changes which would encourage people to change train more often in Shotton. For instance, a more frequent service, a faster service, a smoother service, more convenient connections or a service to Liverpool which doesn't involve a further 5-10 minute wait in Birkenhead would all help.

This idea sounds like a way to spend a lot of money on not very much.

 

[trainophile]

As Hereford has had a few mentions, I'll just add that it has recently been announced that the city is to have a new 3,000 student university in the next few years. Goodness knows how the already stretched railway, both north and south bound, will cope with that, especially at the start and end of terms.

 

[6Gman]

As Hereford has had a few mentions, I'll just add that it has recently been announced that the city is to have a new 3,000 student university in the next few years. Goodness knows how the already stretched railway, both north and south bound, will cope with that, especially at the start and end of terms.

Same as Aberystwyth. They can stand!

Seriously, one would hope that the issue may be addressed by then.

(Yesterday's 1430 Manchester - Swansea showed the way; it was 4 cars!

Bad news - two x 150/2!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This idea sounds like a way to spend a lot of money on not very much.

We have a good few of those on here!

 

[PHILIPE]

Same as Aberystwyth. They can stand!

Seriously, one would hope that the issue may be addressed by then.

(Yesterday's 1430 Manchester - Swansea showed the way; it was 4 cars!

Bad news - two x 150/2!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


We have a good few of those on here!

14 30 Manchester to Swansea booked 4 Cars to return a unit from Manchester off last Chester Saturday night.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

As Hereford has had a few mentions, I'll just add that it has recently been announced that the city is to have a new 3,000 student university in the next few years. Goodness knows how the already stretched railway, both north and south bound, will cope with that, especially at the start and end of terms.

Isn't that a problem with the railway these days? At times when there is a need for more capacity the extra rolling stock just isn't there, as it once was. That, of course is the price we pay for maximising the use of the units or whatever.
I don't know how Aberystwyth copes now at the start and end of term, but it was pretty busy in the 1970's!

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't know how Aberystwyth copes now at the start and end of term, but it was pretty busy in the 1970's!

They overloaded the A44 from Llangurig west!

 

[Gareth Marston]

They overloaded the A44 from Llangurig west!

The most dangerous road in Wales .....though plenty of flowers on the A470 near the Storey Arms today plus an idiot with a telephoto lense taking pictures of the flowers standing in the carriageway.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Isn't that a problem with the railway these days? At times when there is a need for more capacity the extra rolling stock just isn't there, as it once was. That, of course is the price we pay for maximising the use of the units or whatever.
I don't know how Aberystwyth copes now at the start and end of term, but it was pretty busy in the 1970's!

When I was an Aber student - and being just a little involved in the Railway Society - we persuaded the Students Union to underwrite a charter from Aber / Borth to Euston via the Salop curve - with a set down only at Watford for the Xmas end of term in 1977. Train ran as a 6 coach MK1 set - hauled by a class 40 which apart from having no train heat , left the guard behind at Newton on the ECS working from Wolverhampton Oxley CS. ! We arranged also a buffet in the brake van and made a modest profit. The heat from Wolverhampton was very welcome - as was the opportunity to flag the train away from Borth in the time honoured tradition - carefully monitered by the guard of course.

 

[fgwrich]

Well, Cardiff would most likely hate this but with the recent impetuous to increase capacity on the Valley lines like Ebbw Vale, could a Ebbw Vale to Hereford service via Newport be a possible solution? Worked in a similar style to the Maesteg to Gloucester services.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well, Cardiff would most likely hate this but with the recent impetuous to increase capacity on the Valley lines like Ebbw Vale, could a Ebbw Vale to Hereford service via Newport be a possible solution? Worked in a similar style to the Maesteg to Gloucester services.

It will be s job to find a unit to work from Ebbw Vale to Newport let alone Hereford. The Welsh Government will not be interested in Hereford as it is in England.
Maestegs to Gloucester have been running to Cheltenham for several years now.

 

[Gareth Marston]

When I was an Aber student - and being just a little involved in the Railway Society - we persuaded the Students Union to underwrite a charter from Aber / Borth to Euston via the Salop curve - with a set down only at Watford for the Xmas end of term in 1977. Train ran as a 6 coach MK1 set - hauled by a class 40 which apart from having no train heat , left the guard behind at Newton on the ECS working from Wolverhampton Oxley CS. ! We arranged also a buffet in the brake van and made a modest profit. The heat from Wolverhampton was very welcome - as was the opportunity to flag the train away from Borth in the time honoured tradition - carefully monitered by the guard of course.

An ATW Manager once described end of term at Aber as "like the last helicopter out of Saigon" to me!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

When I was an Aber student - and being just a little involved in the Railway Society - we persuaded the Students Union to underwrite a charter from Aber / Borth to Euston via the Salop curve - with a set down only at Watford for the Xmas end of term in 1977. Train ran as a 6 coach MK1 set - hauled by a class 40 which apart from having no train heat , left the guard behind at Newton on the ECS working from Wolverhampton Oxley CS. ! We arranged also a buffet in the brake van and made a modest profit. The heat from Wolverhampton was very welcome - as was the opportunity to flag the train away from Borth in the time honoured tradition - carefully monitered by the guard of course.

That sounds fantastic! Those were clearly the days! Unfortunately I had finished in the summer of 1976, and had to contend with DMU 's on every service from 1973-76. I think that the only loco hauled train by then was Summer Saturdays, which I never managed to frequent. It was regularly late, by all accounts, certainly on the two occasions I was waiting for a friend to arrive on it.
I remember the end of term trains being busy, but can't recall any 'extras' or indeed any doubling up of units. The only highlight for me - if you can call it such - was, I think the 10h15 departure from Aber which was a Cross Country unit, and if you were quick enough it was possible to get a slightly more comfortable seat in the de-commissioned first-class.
I have no recollection of the Railway Soc, I'm afraid, looking back that's a shame!

 

[Gareth Marston]

That sounds fantastic! Those were clearly the days! Unfortunately I had finished in the summer of 1976, and had to contend with DMU 's on every service from 1973-76. I think that the only loco hauled train by then was Summer Saturdays, which I never managed to frequent. It was regularly late, by all accounts, certainly on the two occasions I was waiting for a friend to arrive on it.
I remember the end of term trains being busy, but can't recall any 'extras' or indeed any doubling up of units. The only highlight for me - if you can call it such - was, I think the 10h15 departure from Aber which was a Cross Country unit, and if you were quick enough it was possible to get a slightly more comfortable seat in the de-commissioned first-class.
I have no recollection of the Railway Soc, I'm afraid, looking back that's a shame!

The York mail was still loco hauled up to 75 though given the timings it would only suite certain students!
Best end of term provision was probably summer 86. The loco off the newly reintroduced Cambrian Coast Express was given a rake of MK 1's to haul down to Aber & back on weekdays instead of sitting in Shrewsbury for 10 hours.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The York mail was still loco hauled up to 75 though given the timings it would only suite certain students!
Best end of term provision was probably summer 86. The loco off the newly reintroduced Cambrian Coast Express was given a rake of MK 1's to haul down to Aber & back on weekdays instead of sitting in Shrewsbury for 10 hours.

The "York" mail had only (I think) 1 and a half passenger coaches and a van or two. The withdrawal of the train saw as LHCS saw it replaced as a Cross Country DMU which trailed a van (often a CCT) - which then went forward on a proper train from Salop to York.The Central Wales sent a van up on the last one from Swansea ...

I was there from 1976 - 1979 , and we had excellent access to the working railway thanks to the local staff.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The "York" mail had only (I think) 1 and a half passenger coaches and a van or two. The withdrawal of the train saw as LHCS saw it replaced as a Cross Country DMU which trailed a van (often a CCT) - which then went forward on a proper train from Salop to York.The Central Wales sent a van up on the last one from Swansea ...

I was there from 1976 - 1979 , and we had excellent access to the working railway thanks to the local staff.

Enjoy pictures of a proper railway!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6666341443/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52050...svq-aE2B4z-aE6sDq-e3vPLE-bqRXAf-eB5jHj-c4mZA5

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39281...Y5d-e3udmo-dUFQSz-dHVqrn-fqzNh3-boPzUc-fnJYD4

https://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/8493363434/

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=40244

 

[TDK]

The two-car 175s were ridiculous when they were introduced... a decade of strong passenger growth later and they're a serious problem. Alas, this being the Welsh Marches, nothing is being done about it. I wonder if anything will be in the new franchise agreement along the lines of "all trains Cardiff-Shrewsbury to be 3-car".. nope, don't think so!

you have more of a problem on the North Wales coast so why only just as far of Shrewsbury?