WAG EXPRESS Mark 2 to be announced today

[merlodlliw]

I'll have a look tomorrow, but im sure it is the same as the path that I put up a while back.

It is, two of you put it up, so lets see it again for others.

 

[The Planner]

Whilst no news on re drawn National Transport Plan including redoubling line through Gowerton

Network Change is out for that one, schemes don't normally get that far and then get canned.

 

[daikilo]

I think the WAG should address this by making a funding promise for doubling Chester-Wrexham and as soon as that route is doubled, the service will then indefinately run via that way.

1) If Chester-Wrexham (and v.v.) is the issue, why not start and end there? Express Coach could make a connection from e.g. Flint.

2) Alternatively, what if this train took over existing paths (and stops) on the critical Chester-Wrexham section (and v.v.), presumably with an increase in available seats (and comfort) throughout between Chester and Shrewsbury.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't think there are any day to day scheduled services that have a loco run around

Surely the existing WAG express has a loco run-round (as it is hauled by a class 57 locomotive, I'll be sad to see 57 haulage go if 67s are to replace them).

I am reading this right, the new service is to run 2 hours behind the present in the same direction!??!?!??!!? I really was hopeing that a 2nd WAG express would leave Holyhead at about 4 or 5pm (same time as the present one leaves Cardiff or a bit later) to provide day trips in the other direction and an afternoon southbound LHCS express.

 

[185]

A cheaper option would be reinstall the 700m curve at Shotton from the high level to the North Wales Coast... embankment is visible on Google Maps, just north of the station.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&cp=53.213~-3.038&style=h&lvl=15&sp=Point.53.213_-3.038_Shotton%20railway%20station___

This is a more direct route and involves no reversing, and avoids long single line sections.

Stops in the north, in my view should be:
Holyhead - Bangor - Conwy - Llandudno Jn - Rhyl - Flint -Shotton Interchange - Wrexham - Shrewsbury.

The reduced route would offer time to do those stops.

 

[MCR247]

Surely the existing WAG express has a loco run-round (as it is hauled by a class 57 locomotive, I'll be sad to see 57 haulage go if 67s are to replace them).

I am reading this right, the new service is to run 2 hours behind the present in the same direction!??!?!??!!? I really was hopeing that a 2nd WAG express would leave Holyhead at about 4 or 5pm (same time as the present one leaves Cardiff or a bit later) to provide day trips in the other direction and an afternoon southbound LHCS express.

I meant in service

 

[The Planner]

A cheaper option would be reinstall the 700m curve at Shotton from the high level to the North Wales Coast...

This is a more direct route and involves no reversing, and avoids long single line sections.

Stops in the north, in my view should be:
Holyhead - Bangor - Conwy - Llandudno Jn - Rhyl - Flint -Shotton Interchange - Wrexham - Shrewsbury.

The reduced route would offer time to do those stops.

Chester is worth a few more quid to them. Shotton was looked at years ago if I recall and was binned as costing to much like most things.

 

[merlodlliw]

Chester is worth a few more quid to them. Shotton was looked at years ago if I recall and was binned as costing to much like most things.

Hello Planner.
Could you remember to put up the timings of the Wag Mark 2 ghost path please I could do with a refresher.
Many thanks.
M

 

[The Planner]

Oddly enough, I can't see it in May 11.

 

[merlodlliw]

deleted

 

[cymro inside]

there were 2 trains in the morning and two returns in the evening worked by class 47s there was also an unbalanced afternoon train at 1417 from bangor hauled by a class 33 which at the time of the Crewe blockade ran round at Chester and went via Wrexham!..

 

[merlodlliw]

there were 2 trains in the morning and two returns in the evening worked by class 47s there was also an unbalanced afternoon train at 1417 from bangor hauled by a class 33 which at the time of the Crewe blockade ran round at Chester and went via Wrexham!..

Thank you, I did not recall them, I only knew of one run by Western Region,ex Cardiff evening, rtn following day from Holyhead.

M

 

[merlodlliw]

This will interest a few of you in Wales, from todays local regional.
The story follows the farce put out by the Ministers party(Plaid) that he thought the train WAG2 was following a different route, when he signed off a mere £3.5M
in public funding.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...-express-train-times-revealed-55578-28075370/

The article follows statements made by Politicians to the press, that no route was ever requested via Crewe, which of course we all know different as the route is on the ORR website


Bob

 

[175001]

That's a good path back for business people. Looking forward to it

 

[rail-britain]

From a railway enthusiast point of view it is a shame that both cannot be travelled on
However, the later morning train now means it is possible to connect from the early morning Glasgow Central - Preston / Preston - Crewe / Crewe - Chester connection
The evening connection remains possible
Equally, the later evening service then leaves a dilemma, whether to stay on and then return back to Crewe for a sleeper or get off and take the last service back to Glasgow

 

[cymro inside]

rumour is that the diagram is going to be a 2 car 175 at least initially,looking forward to having an express service from Bangor in the mornings and I can see this useful train loading well.surprised it is not stopping at Abergavenny on the return to give the busy market town a half hourly evening peak service.

 

[merlodlliw]

rumour is that the diagram is going to be a 2 car 175 at least initially,looking forward to having an express service from Bangor in the mornings and I can see this useful train loading well.surprised it is not stopping at Abergavenny on the return to give the busy market town a half hourly evening peak service.

The word in the trade is hired in stock, loco hauled,as a result of Yesterdays press item, my political contacts tell me the midnight oil was burning, and
civil servants are being blamed for misguiding information on the route.

 

[splitfare]

The word in the trade is hired in stock, loco hauled,as a result of Yesterdays press item, my political contacts tell me the midnight oil was burning, and
civil servants are being blamed for misguiding information on the route.

One rumour on another forum is suggesting that the sudden demise of WSMR was to give DB/Arriva additional loco hauled carriages to run this second service. It also suggested that it frees up a slot on the route from Wrexham to Shrewsbury ideal for this service.

 

[merlodlliw]

One rumour on another forum is suggesting that the sudden demise of WSMR was to give DB/Arriva additional loco hauled carriages to run this second service. It also suggested that it frees up a slot on the route from Wrexham to Shrewsbury ideal for this service.

These rumours are circulated everywhere today

1. The second service wont run before May,15 weeks of idle stock.

2.The second slot is too close at 0723 to the first WAG, unless the first WAG is sent via Wrexham using DVT, but a path needs to be found from Chester.
There may still be a path for the old W/S from Crewe early morning?
3.No good for the local W/S staff, unless the catering starts at Wrexham,which is probably out of the question.

4.Discussions are indeed taking place between WAG/ATW/DB on the 67s & ATW driver training

There is frantic activity today to get something on the W/S paths out of
Wrexham to Shrewsbury as the 0723 W/S was a link to catch the WAG at Shrewsbury, now this is gone the only option is the 0630 to Cardiff & opposition A.Ms are demanding action.

In my opinion an ATW feeder will be used between Wrexham & Shrewsbury
at 0723 in the short term, to allow passengers to join the WAG Express, as the ATW Shrewsbury feeder to the VT terminates at Wrexham at 0645 this could be used, unless it runs empty to some where else, also there was a good loading of pax leaving Gobowen for work in Shropshire that caught the 2nd up W./S


Bob

 

[cymro inside]

wag 2 is confirmed by internal sources as class 175 from may until December and mk3s thereafter,rumours abound however that there will be an additional loco and stock working on the coast with atw this summer,possibly llandudno to manchester .those with an interest in train loadings may like to know that i was on the 1615 ex cardiff tonight and it was full from cardiff to abergavenny and on average 3 out of every 3 seats in standard class were occupied from there on to
llandudno junction with about 60 per cent loading on to bangor where at least 70 passengers alighted (i did not check first class as i had work to do)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
loading should read 3 out of every 4 seats not 3 out of 3..misprint sorry!

 

[merlodlliw]

wag 2 is confirmed by internal sources as class 175 from may until December and mk3s thereafter,rumours abound however that there will be an additional loco and stock working on the coast with atw this summer,possibly llandudno to manchester .those with an interest in train loadings may like to know that i was on the 1615 ex cardiff tonight and it was full from cardiff to abergavenny and on average 3 out of every 3 seats in standard class were occupied from there on to
llandudno junction with about 60 per cent loading on to bangor where at least 70 passengers alighted (i did not check first class as i had work to do)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
loading should read 3 out of every 4 seats not 3 out of 3..misprint sorry!

1.Is the internal source WAG or ATW? as class 67 ATW driver training is taking place now with Holyhead staff? can not see this just for WAG Mark 1.
2.I am surprised they can spring a spare 175,150 back up will be interesting.
3.No surprise about standard class loadings on WAG Ex 1, its the Premier end
that is usually quiet.& it did replace an Abergavenny stopper.
4.With the frantic move at present by ATW/DB to get loco hauled,after all
WAG are paying out for hire of loco hauled £3.5M,I would be surprised to see a DMU as a WAG EXP mark 2, not the image the Minister is after.
5.And of course the route, Crewe ghost path appears to have been dropped,the down ghost route is on the web via Wrexham now as from May.
We shall see, I agree rumours abound, but my contacts tell me of very frequent meetings between WAG/ATW/NR & D B.

 

[The Planner]

Ive also heard that its been squeezed via Wrexham now too, a DB class 6 is likely to be shoved out the way to make it work.

 

[merlodlliw]

Ive also heard that its been squeezed via Wrexham now too, a DB class 6 is likely to be shoved out the way to make it work.

Yes, its all going to DBs plan it seems, I have not seen any Up Ghost path yet
have they worked this out yet Planner? I know the down ghost path is on the tables now train is 1W94 (shown as starting at Swansea as a stopper to Cardiff),then Newport/Hereford/Shrewsbury/Wrexham/Chester/Junction/Bangor & Holyhead. (ref time table 3)

I love this quote from the Plaid transport Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones,In an interview with BBC Wales, Mr Jones said he had inherited "substantial problems" when he came into office, and that the transport side of his department was "out of control financially"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-12411625

 

[cymro inside]

atw contacts are quoted,it appears that the 175 becomes available by juggling diagrams with the reintroduction of an additional 150..i presume one of the on hire to fgw sets?

 

[tbtc]

atw contacts are quoted,it appears that the 175 becomes available by juggling diagrams with the reintroduction of an additional 150..i presume one of the on hire to fgw sets?

I was wondering what the ex-FGW 150s would be running on when back in Wales

 

[Gareth Marston]

I was wondering what the ex-FGW 150s would be running on when back in Wales

I theory the on loan ATW 150/2 coming back would have freed up the 158's off the Maesteg to Cheltenham, diagrams, there being 2 of them. Exactly the same number ATW needed to go to Marylebone and us folk in Mid Wales know that would be needed for hourly service on Cambrian main line.

Pinching a 175 to run yet another Holyhead -Cardiff diagram will of course end up with 158's having to fill in on Manchester and Holyhead turns.

 

[merlodlliw]

I theory the on loan ATW 150/2 coming back would have freed up the 158's off the Maesteg to Cheltenham, diagrams, there being 2 of them. Exactly the same number ATW needed to go to Marylebone and us folk in Mid Wales know that would be needed for hourly service on Cambrian main line.

Pinching a 175 to run yet another Holyhead -Cardiff diagram will of course end up with 158's having to fill in on Manchester and Holyhead turns.

So if it is a 175, that would mean ATW pocketing a lot of the £3.5M funding they are going to get from WAG.
My money is still on a 67 with a DVT, a 175 is not a 1st Premier Service train its just a DMU.And all the current ATW driver training on 67s is not for DMUs

Also I note the early 0425 Holyhead to Cardiff 175 is diagrammed to Milford Haven an 8 (eight) hour journey arr 1227 from May.

 

[The Planner]

Last I heard was the same as Gareth, ATW need the 150s back off FGW to release more 158s for any extra Cambrian services. The second Gezza could be in as a 175 path as a 67+DVT wouldn't be too far off it time wise, if it all.

 

[merlodlliw]

Its all up in the air, but this was from an official media release from the WAG press office

A WAG spokesman said: “In the One Wales programme of government, agreed in 2007, we committed to improving links between North and South Wales. We continue to explore other improvements to services on this route.

“We are holding discussions with Network Rail and ATW to identify infrastructure and timetabling improvements, to speed up journey times, and to route Y Gerallt Gymro via Wrexham instead of Crewe.”

Well if ATW can get away with a 175, that's a tidy profit out of the £3.5M
funding for running the train, and of course ATW keep the fares as part of the deal to run both trains , of which Gerald gets £1.7M sub this year plus fares.

ATW of course want to run via Crewe,as they expect to extract more fare money,but Political promises have been made.

Bob

 

[tbtc]

Last I heard was the same as Gareth, ATW need the 150s back off FGW to release more 158s for any extra Cambrian services

...are these 150s delayed by the delay in 172 production, meaning the LM/LO 150s aren't moving to FGW fast enough to release the welsh 150s? I find it hard to keep track of all the cascading!