I can tell you that at the time of the TSGN bid there was no major change in the way cleaning had been done since the start of the franchise, i.e. they made use of agency staff to cover vacancy gaps, apart from Brighton (where Southern had previously performed the cleaning). Said vacancy gap was certainly bigger than it needed to be, but no staff were made redundant AFAIK.
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W Driver Only Operated Trains (DOO) discussion
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I can tell you that at the time of the TSGN bid there was no major change in the way cleaning had been done since the start of the franchise, i.e. they made use of agency staff to cover vacancy gaps, apart from Brighton (where Southern had previously performed the cleaning). Said vacancy gap was certainly bigger than it needed to be, but no staff were made redundant AFAIK.
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RailUK Forums
I wasn't suggesting it was part of franchise change. What I was saying was that the information given to bidders showed that FCC was still employing cleaners at the same locations it had been during 2010.
As I already explained, they had a mix of staff and agency due to running a large vacancy gap.
P.S. FCC hasn't existed for almost a year now.
Unlike yourself, I am perfectly capable of both reading and comprehending posts.
Historically there were no cleaners employed by FCC at Moorgate. There were only 2 at WGC. That's zero and two. Seems like a bit of a non-story to me.
Yes. And when they introduced cleaners at Moorgate they took the in house cleaners away from Welwyn and employed agency staff at both locations.
But regardless, in terms of train Maintanance with hitachi and Siemens TUPE simply won't come into it as they are completely new jobs and not directly taking over a service currently carried out. Therefore they can make people redundant and able to apply for other jobs without the need for TUPE. Sadly all above board and legal.
Lets keep it civil please. There have been a few posts which are boarding on violating the Forum Rules particularly those relating to being respectful of other members.
Remember this is an emotive topic and involves people who are directly affected by the consequences of what's being discussed.
Remember this is an emotive topic and involves people who are directly affected by the consequences of what's being discussed.
Agreed. New trains require new maintenance so there are no TUPE rights.
Nevertheless Siemens appeared keen to take on existing staff on TSGN. Would they pay them less? Well I've seen staff move from Bombardier to a TOC and they were on more money. I don't suppose the pension is as good though.
Nevertheless Siemens appeared keen to take on existing staff on TSGN. Would they pay them less? Well I've seen staff move from Bombardier to a TOC and they were on more money. I don't suppose the pension is as good though.
Sleepy
Established Member
No rumours of any more strike dates looming soon ?
thelongestroad
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Additional strike/action short of a strike dates have been announced as below...
http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/intercity-express-programme-iep030815/
http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/intercity-express-programme-iep030815/
Robertj21a
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What an amazing coincidence that they should pick a Bank Holiday.
In what way? Not sure I understand what you are getting at. Pick a weekday and they get accused of disrupting commuters. A weekend and it's leisure travellers. Bank holiday and it's holiday makers. What ever day they choose it will disrupt a large group of people. Infact a bank holiday may cause a lot less disruption. And the striking staff have more to loose on a bank holiday as they loose their extra bank holiday pay or day in lieu of they go out on strike.
TheLastMinute
Member
Interestingly, the TSSA has called off it's ballot for action short of a strike after receiving assurances from FGW that no management grade staff would be forced to cover the work of strikers. Perhaps the RMT is hoping that striking over the bank holiday means there are less management volunteers to cover the work? Also, what's the situation with FGW drivers and Sunday working - could we see a lot of ASLEF drivers making themselves unavailable on those Sunday?
Huh? I didn't think that they can wriggle out of TUPE and redundancy in that way. They can make you redundant and then you are free to sign up with the new employer, or there is an employer organised transfer of staff between undertakings in which case TUPE applies.
father_jack
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Mass "unavailabilty" might be challenged as secondary industrial action.
Members are welcome to discuss the planned strike action and the issues around it. They are not welcome to resort to personal insults provoked or otherwise. Keep comments to the issues at hand and do not insult other members on this thread otherwise further action may be taken.
A further reminder that there are people who are directly affected by the changes being proposed by the DfT/FGW and as a consequence those people are fearful for their livelihoods and their futures. Some of those people read this forum. Therefore I would strongly advise all members to serious consider how their post may be interpreted by those who are at the centre of this strike action. Flippant comments that you think are fine could actually be quite upsetting to them.
A further reminder that there are people who are directly affected by the changes being proposed by the DfT/FGW and as a consequence those people are fearful for their livelihoods and their futures. Some of those people read this forum. Therefore I would strongly advise all members to serious consider how their post may be interpreted by those who are at the centre of this strike action. Flippant comments that you think are fine could actually be quite upsetting to them.
Captain Chaos
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This is during Notting Hill carnival and Reading Festival. Managers are usually deployed for crowd control for this. So unless they hire a load of a security or get police drafted in for crowd control then they face a large problem.
TheLastMinute
Member
True that anything arranged, even unofficially, by the union or the reps would almost certainly be illegal secondary action.
But if Sundays were optional, and the drivers organised a "depot BBQ" purely between themselves, surely there isn't much that can be done to force them to work? Hence my question about what the Sunday arrangements were for the various FGW driver groups.
Jonfun
Established Member
Challenged maybe, but if Sunday working isn't in their contracts (I don't know, it might be) then what exactly can be said?
Or maybe the Managers realised that their contracts probably wouldn't be renewed next year if they voted to strike now!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FGW West are supposed to work them if they can't be covered, of course the fact that it would be classed as compulsory overtime means there isn't much they could do if you didn't turn up.
HSS can all go unavailable and there is nothing the company can do about it.
I don't know about Thames Valley.
Vast majority in Thames Valley is DOO, so it's possible, like last time, that a fairly good service should run. Provided of course sufficient units are prepped for service.
Marlow Branch, Oxford-Worcester and Reading-Gatwick require Guards. Those services will likely be affected again.
As it only takes 2 minutes to fill the paperwork in to say that a manager is competent then a full service should run.
Maybe the drivers who take the trains onto the depot the night before the industrial action should isolate the odd item so the drivers the next morning will know if the trains have been prepped correctly or just had a prep slip filled in!
Rich McLean
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Rule on Sundays is if you want to give up your turn on a Sunday, its down to you to find a replacement. If there is no replacement, you're expected to work
On FGW it can vary from Link to Link and depot to depot, due to various different T&Cs for West, LTV and HSS, taking into account ex-BR drivers
EDIT: Covered above by 455Driver
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Doubt it. There have been many occasions during disputes where drivers decline rest day or Sunday working as it's overtime. Abellio at Scotrail had to run an amended timetable. It's up to the individual to decide whether to work and nothing to do with ASLEF.
With it been a bank holiday weekend I suspect a few would be unavailable to work even if there wasn't a dispute.
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread that ASLEF are not prepared to accept any roll out of further DOO on FGW, so if that's the case, why haven't ASLEF got involved and also balloted for strike action over this dispute?
Surely if ASLEF did get involved then FGW would most likely cave on the DOO issue immediately, as there would almost certainly be a near total shutdown of the FGW network during strike action if drivers also walked out, were ASLEF to co-ordinate action with the RMT?
Also, seeing as relations between FGW and the RMT and now becoming increasingly bitter with both sides becoming entrenched in their positions, why hasn't ACAS got involved yet?
Are ASLEF and ACAS both too distracted by the Underground dispute at the moment to get involved in the FGW dispute?
Surely if ASLEF did get involved then FGW would most likely cave on the DOO issue immediately, as there would almost certainly be a near total shutdown of the FGW network during strike action if drivers also walked out, were ASLEF to co-ordinate action with the RMT?
Also, seeing as relations between FGW and the RMT and now becoming increasingly bitter with both sides becoming entrenched in their positions, why hasn't ACAS got involved yet?
Are ASLEF and ACAS both too distracted by the Underground dispute at the moment to get involved in the FGW dispute?
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