Voyagers could be the best current train

[Mat17]

When you cannot place a decent sized bag in the overhead luggage racks then it is the design of the train that is wrong

If you're lucky enough (or not as the case may be) to be able to board the train in the first place due to inadequate number of carriages and overcrowding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is an oxymoron. voyager type trains are designed to be airliner style fuselages on railway wheels. The UK already suffers from restricted loading gauge compared to the rest of the world but to then build trains to an even smaller cross section due to following the ridiculously expensive notion of tilting trains, actually does the users a disservice. When you cannot place a decent sized bag in the overhead luggage racks then it is the design of the train that is wrong

Pendolinos have generously sized overhead racks, so it's just bad design. The issue is a conduit of some sort placed above the racks. If that wasn't there they'd be big enough.

 

[david1212]

That is an oxymoron. voyager type trains are designed to be airliner style fuselages on railway wheels. The UK already suffers from restricted loading gauge compared to the rest of the world but to then build trains to an even smaller cross section due to following the ridiculously expensive notion of tilting trains, actually does the users a disservice. When you cannot place a decent sized bag in the overhead luggage racks then it is the design of the train that is wrong

Exacerbateted by a lowered internal roofline to accommodate having equipment on the roof rather than all under the passenger floor. If the external roofline followed the loading gauge profile then internal roofline followed that with the same spacing as the sides there would be more luggage space on the racks.
Had the same number of seats been fitted across another carriage and far more groups around tables there would have been luggage space between the seats as some compensation for the loss on the racks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exacerbateted by a lowered internal roofline to accommodate having equipment on the roof rather than all under the passenger floor. If the external roofline followed the loading gauge profile then internal roofline followed that with the same spacing as the sides there would be more luggage space on the racks.

Nope, it's just lousy design. Pendolinos have a far lower roofline and have good sized overheads.

 

[seagull]

I still remember the very first time I stepped onto a Voyager back in 2002, and thought how "narrow gauge" it seemed inside, very cramped.
The lovely burning smell you get inside the saloon after braking for a station from 125mph is another unforgettable experience, too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I still remember the very first time I stepped onto a Voyager back in 2002, and thought how "narrow gauge" it seemed inside, very cramped.
The lovely burning smell you get inside the saloon after braking for a station from 125mph is another unforgettable experience, too.

I don't recall that. You did however get it on Mk3s for a very long time, due to some muppet thinking that "right next to the brake discs" was the right place for the aircon inlet.

 

[Razorblades]

I was on the launch press run, from Birmingham to Reading and back with a pair of 220s, if memory serves. Not helped by the obligatory and OTT Virgin Trains hype, the realisation that the new fleet was actually going to be completely uninspiring was depressing to say the least.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was on the launch press run, from Birmingham to Reading and back with a pair of 220s, if memory serves. Not helped by the obligatory and OTT Virgin Trains hype, the realisation that the new fleet was actually going to be completely uninspiring was depressing to say the least.

Anything that saves passengers from IC70 seats in bottle green and beige deserves hype if you ask me

 

[MattRat]

Pendolinos have generously sized overhead racks, so it's just bad design. The issue is a conduit of some sort placed above the racks. If that wasn't there they'd be big enough.

The Pendolinos don't have engines taking up floor space, and since train bodies taper as they go higher up (they aren't just cuboids), the less space you have the higher you have to place a luggage rack.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Pendolinos don't have engines taking up floor space

Pendolinos have a visibly higher floor and lower ceiling than Voyagers.

and since train bodies taper as they go higher up (they aren't just cuboids), the less space you have the higher you have to place a luggage rack.

Pendolinos are more tapered than Voyagers, taking into account their higher degree of tilt (9 vs. 6 degrees, if I recall).

 

[miklcct]

I have found the Voyagers much worse than the Desiros (class 444 or even class 450) on my local route, South West Main Line.

Class 444 trains are quiet and more efficient because they run on electric, while Desiros are noisy and inefficient because they run on diesel.

I can't even get GPS reception within a Voyager which can give me anxiety at night while I have no problems tracking where I am on class 444 trains.

Also, as mentioned above, Voyagers feel cramped while Desiros don't give me such feeling.

 

[Halish Railway]

Also, as mentioned above, Voyagers feel cramped while Desiros don't give me such feeling.

Let’s hope that the HS2 trains (especially the captive fleet) will have the same characteristics of the 444s that you described.

Passengers would certainly notice the difference between that and a Voyager/Pendolino that they’d supersede - That would be one way to drum up ridership and gain support for the HS2 project.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd expect them to look very 80x-like. Which is an upgrade on a Pendolino in most ways.

 

[Wolfie]

Nothing wrong with an IC70 seat of either class, delivered to spec.

Really? Try having spinal issues and then say that. Truly awful junk, particularly in Standard class. Good riddance.

 

[antharro]

I don't mind Voyagers. But only if I'm in first class. I can't stand the standard class seats - too upright and uncomfortable; they'd be tolerable for a short distance commuter train but for a long distance train, nope. Arriva have done these trains a disservice in the utter lack of maintenance the interiors have had; even in first they are horribly rattly. I don't mind the engine drone and I've never actually noticed the toilet smell.

I would like to see them get a thorough interior overhaul, but only as long as the first class area isn't downgraded!

I can't even get GPS reception within a Voyager which can give me anxiety at night while I have no problems tracking where I am on class 444 trains.

I am also on the SWML... if you're on a fast then you're no more than 30 minutes from a station at the most. Keep an eye on RTT and you'll know where you are.

 

[Retorus]

Really? Try having spinal issues and then say that. Truly awful junk, particularly in Standard class. Good riddance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Mar 2022 ==

I have to say that anyone who gets anxiety at night because they can't track their progress with GPS on a train has got some serious issues.

I don't think this is appropriate, anxiety comes in all shapes and sizes for every reason under the sun. It's not your place to say someone has "serious issues" for what triggers their anxiety.

 

[Wolfie]

I don't think this is appropriate, anxiety comes in all shapes and sizes for every reason under the sun. It's not your place to say someone has "serious issues" for what triggers their anxiety.

Actually thinking about it you make a fair point, thank you, l will end my post accordingly. The last thing that l would wish to do is make anyone more anxious.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd expect them to look very 80x-like. Which is an upgrade on a Pendolino in most ways.

I'm no fan of Pendolinos, but even they wipe the floor with the 800-series from a passenger accommodation point of view. The austere interiors of the IEP units are a real let-down, and the ride quality is fair-to-middling at best.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I don't recall that. You did however get it on Mk3s for a very long time, due to some muppet thinking that "right next to the brake discs" was the right place for the aircon inlet.

Which is better than the CET vent being by the exhaust.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm no fan of Pendolinos, but even they wipe the floor with the 800-series from a passenger accommodation point of view. The austere interiors of the IEP units are a real let-down, and the ride quality is fair-to-middling at best.

Have you tried a LNER one? The interior ambiance I find very similar to a Pendolino other than the lighting maybe needing knocking down a notch or two.

Otherwise:

Ride: both equally iffy though in different ways. Pendolinos very often hit the bump stops, 80x are a bit jiggly but no worse than 350s.

Seats: Pendolino wins, but the old fashioned thick backed design is one reason for the poor legroom so this is balanced a bit.
First Class: Pendolino wins by a country mile. Best First Class in the UK. I think it's a real shame the IET First Class doesn't meet this standard, and there's no particular reason it couldn't.

Interior ambiance: depends which IET. The GWR ones are beyond drab, but the ones with some colour on the seats are nice enough. And none have the "fag ash Lil" beige ceilings which are rather dated.

Legroom: IET wins far and away - this is very important to me, being tall and having had DVT so being cramped in could genuinely be life threatening by causing a recurrence
Luggage space: IET wins far and away; overheads are huge
Windows: IET wins, much bigger

Overall I'm quite glad MKC's Avanti service to Brum will be an IET soon enough (minus the bad seats), and it will make me use them more (as things stand I often choose 350s even on an interavailable ticket). I don't hate Pendolinos, but I just find IETs nicer.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Have you tried a LNER one? The interior ambiance I find very similar to a Pendolino other than the lighting maybe needing knocking down a notch or two.

Yes. The clinical lighting and firm seating does not scream "pleasant travelling environment" to me. Whenever I'm using LNER I try to time my journey to match the Mk4 sets.

 

[greyman42]

Really? Try having spinal issues and then say that. Truly awful junk, particularly in Standard class. Good riddance.

You cannot expect seats to be designed for people with spinal issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. The clinical lighting and firm seating does not scream "pleasant travelling environment" to me. Whenever I'm using LNER I try to time my journey to match the Mk4 sets.

I think they have a lovely warm feel with all the red myself. It's definitely the nicest 80x interior.

Mk4s are indeed classy and the seats are good (after the false start by GNER with single-piece cushions with a base that tipped the wrong way), but they're getting old and they ride like carts even compared to 80x.

 

[Wolfie]

You cannot expect seats to be designed for people with spinal issues.

I can expect them to have some level of back support and no useless at best, obstructive at worst, stupid fixed armrests though. IC70s belong on heritage railways or a skip.

 

[43301]

I think they have a lovely warm feel with all the red myself. It's definitely the nicest 80x interior.

And they have a buffet, which no other 80x do currently (not sure whether the Avanti ones will).

Mk4s are indeed classy and the seats are good (after the false start by GNER with single-piece cushions with a base that tipped the wrong way), but they're getting old and they ride like carts even compared to 80x.

Those Mk4 interiors (and the nearly identical ones on the LNER HSTs) are probably the best interiors of recent years.

 

[greyman42]

I can expect them to have some level of back support and no useless at best, obstructive at worst, stupid fixed armrests though. IC70s belong on heritage railways or a skip.

The fixed armrests stop fat people encroaching onto your own seat.

 

[Wolfie]

The fixed armrests stop fat people encroaching onto your own seat.

... and make it difficult for anyone with mobility issues not to mention being seriously problematic in the event of a crash. Antediluvian old crap. Good riddance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

... and make it difficult for anyone with mobility issues not to mention being seriously problematic in the event of a crash. Antediluvian old crap. Good riddance.

Indeed. Such a shame the Mk3s weren't fitted with the far better seats fitted originally to the Wessies.

 

[philthetube]

I have found the Voyagers much worse than the Desiros (class 444 or even class 450) on my local route, South West Main Line.


I can't even get GPS reception within a Voyager which can give me anxiety at night while I have no problems tracking where I am on class 444 trains.

In my experience, if the gps knows where it is before you board the train they it normally stays connected, try using a tablet instead of a phone, they seem to do better as well.

 

[43301]

In my experience, if the gps knows where it is before you board the train they it normally stays connected, try using a tablet instead of a phone, they seem to do better as well.

Probably to do with the size of the antenna in the device.

Voyagers have some sort of window coating I believe which blocks the signal (can often get a signal in the vesibule even if not in the saloon area).