Voyager Door Closure Procedure

[brick60000]

Hi there,

I have recently been reading some things, and they have confused me! When reading one of them, it seems to me that it is implying that the doors of Voyagers are controlled by the driver, as the beeping that is heard prior to the closure is actually the driver to guard buzzer. Is this the case?

Sorry if this has been brought up in the past.

Regards,
Brick60000

 

[LowLevel]

It is, the driver controls the doors on Voyagers. They open them when they choose, and close them when instructed to by the guard as they dispatch the train using buzzer code '1-2'. The guard then closes their local door themselves and gives the right away in the normal manner on the buzzer.

 

[transportphoto]

As far as I know, the above is correct... the dispatch is known by some as a 'ten-bell dispatch' as ten beeps are exchanged between driver and TM during the process:

1-2 Guard to Driver, Request Driver Closes Doors
1-2 Driver to Guard, Acknowledge, Driver Closes Doors
At this point the Guard checks all doors are secure and then proceeds to close his local door by turning the key.
2 Guard to Driver, Ready to Start
2 Driver to Guard, Acknowledge, Ready to Start

TP

 

[ryan125hst]

The dispatch procedure can be seen on my video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAceHnVYyME&t=45m54s

(I don't work on the railways, so what I have typed below is from observations and what I have read on here before, but

You can hear the dispatcher blow their whistle and the guard board the train. I then pan around to the tour and you can here the 1-2 bell code being sent to the driver, and the driver replying with 1-2 before the doors close. I then pan around to the guard again who, after the dispatcher blows their whistle again, boards the train and closes his local door. You can't here it in the video, but the guard would then send a 2 bell code to the driver who will reply. I believe the engine rpms raise slightly when the driver moves the reverser from neutral to forward (by the looks of it, he does this as the guards local door is closing). Once the 2 bell code is sent and replied to, he will release the brakes and take power (I think it's a combines traction and brake controller in a Voyager).

Strangely though, there is no hustle alarm on a Voyager. Does anyone know why? Also, I wonder why they decided that getting the driver to open and close the doors is better than the guard doing it? How does the driver confirm that the whole train is on the platform and it is safe to open the doors? This is normally the guards job.

One more question from me: When does the guard open their local door? Do they have to wait until the driver has released the doors before their door opens, or will they open it before?

 

[starrymarkb]

There is a hustle alarm. It's quieter then the buzzer beeps though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK9z3YPYQDg

 

[ryan125hst]

There is a hustle alarm. It's quieter then the buzzer beeps though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK9z3YPYQDg

So there is! I've heard the door release sound, but out of all the videos of watched, I don't think I've ever heard the hustle alarm before. I've only been on a Voyager once, but I don't remember hearing it then either, just the bell codes. You learn something new every day! Thank you

 

[voyagerdude220]

One more question from me: When does the guard open their local door? Do they have to wait until the driver has released the doors before their door opens, or will they open it before?

TMs on 220/221s (and also 390s) don't have the ability to open a "local door." It's all on the driver to make sure they stop at the suitable point of a station platform. TMs only get to open their door once the driver has released them, as per Joe public.

There was a case a year or two ago, where VT had to amend the stopping pattern of a Holyhead to Euston service, because it was formed of a double set instead of the usual single 5-car set. As TMs can't just open their door on a 221 and with drivers having full control over the doors, alongside lack of SDO on 220/221/390s, the train couldn't stop at Prestatyn.

 

[brick60000]

Thanks for all of your replies! I never realised this up until now, and they operate on my local line . Ah well!

So there is! I've heard the door release sound, but out of all the videos of watched, I don't think I've ever heard the hustle alarm before. I've only been on a Voyager once, but I don't remember hearing it then either, just the bell codes. You learn something new every day! Thank you

I have to agree with you here! I have never noticed the hustle alarm either!

 

[Goldfish62]

Also, I wonder why they decided that getting the driver to open and close the doors is better than the guard doing it? How does the driver confirm that the whole train is on the platform and it is safe to open the doors? This is normally the guards job.

Surely the same as any DOO train - the driver is expected to pull up to the correct stop board.

 

[ExRes]

You learn something every day, I assumed that 220/221s had the same SDO that we had on 222s, it seems truly amazing that the Voyagers lack such a good system

I always enjoyed the 'SDO' that we had on the 170/1s as well

 

[MCR247]

I have to agree with you here! I have never noticed the hustle alarm either!

It isn't something you can normally hear from your seat like other trains, you need to be in the vestibules to hear it

 

[Minilad]

I can confirm that what has been said in the above postings is correct. And no they don't have SDO

 

[miked]

I can confirm that what has been said in the above postings is correct. And no they don't have SDO

This makes sense as i've been on the 17.39 Birmingham to Derby before, which was a 220, and noticed the rear coach was locked out of use, pressume this was for Willington having a short platform and the 220 not having SDO.

 

[Minilad]

This makes sense as i've been on the 17.39 Birmingham to Derby before, which was a 220, and noticed the rear coach was locked out of use, pressume this was for Willington having a short platform and the 220 not having SDO.

Correct. A couple of the Willington stops are booked for 2 x 2 car 170. This isn't a problem as the 170s have SDO

 

[plastictaffy]

Locking coaches out of use in a pain in the arse. I've always believed that if it doesn't fit, you don't stop. But hell, I'm only a Guard, what would I know?

 

[ExRes]

It always made me chuckle that you had to use the door deselect on a pair of 170s on the down platform at Long Eaton but you could stop there with an 8 car HST due to grandfather rights, obviously grandad was there to pick the punters up from the lineside vegetation

 

[brick60000]

Hi there. Sorry to bring back an old thread, but it saved creating a new one for the same thing :P

Having recently been on a voyager, I spied a green button by the speaker by the door. Is this the driver to guard buzzer which is next to the key hole? At a guess, does the guard have to do various key twists to get his local door to close, assuming that is what it is :P

Many thanks,
Brick60000

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes that's indeed the driver guard button on 220/221s. The Train Manager turns their key in the lock, to turn their chosen door into the local door.

 

[Jonfun]

Having recently been on a voyager, I spied a green button by the speaker by the door. Is this the driver to guard buzzer which is next to the key hole? At a guess, does the guard have to do various key twists to get his local door to close, assuming that is what it is :P

Yeah, the green button controls the Driver/Guard buzzer. Turning a key in the keyswitch activates the buzzer button and a voice link to the driver, and it stops the door from closing by any means other than the 'Door Close' button at that door. You don't need to do any more key twists to shut the door, once the panel's brought under local control, you're reet.

 

[driver_m]

When the TM does that, we get a broadcast in the cab of everything said in that area. Some very interesting things get said by both passengers, and staff too if they forget!

 

[Rich McLean]

For those that don't know:

Train stops, driver opens doors. No need for the Guard to have the key turned at this point
Once given the Close door signal by the dispatcher (unless self dispatch), guard turns the key, and buzzes the driver (one long buzz, followed by two short buzzes, which is repeated back by the driver before he/she closes the doors).
Doors Close, apart from the local door with the key turned.
Guard visually checks all doors are closed and that the signal is set to off (green).
Final RA given, guard then closes his/her door.
Two buzzes, which are then repeated by the driver.
Train departs, key out, and your away.

The beauty of it is, is that the Guard can get off at one end of the train, and walk to any door to dispatch.

The intercom is live when the key is turned, but a lot of Guards don't tend to turn the key until they are ready to dispatch and give the Close Door signal

 

[40129]

Having read this thread and seen the process in operation, I have to admit to having some concerns about it.

1) What would happen if after the guard has given the close doors signal a passenger runs to the train and gets trapped in the doors? On every other train with power doors the guard can simply press the release doors buttons and the doors will re-open but how can he/she do that when they don't have such buttons at the local door?

2) Why is it ok for the driver to release the doors on a 22x based on him being able to see from inside the cab that the train has stopped in the correct place but not for guards on other trains to do the same without stepping on to the platform?

 

[wensley]

On every other train with power doors the guard can simply press the release doors buttons and the doors will re-open but how can he/she do that when they don't have such buttons at the local door?

Not quite true ... On a Class 180 the Driver controls SDO and door release. The Guard, however, is fully in control of dispatch from a local door panel and has the power to open their local door independent of the Driver's controls.

In the situation mentioned above the a Guard would have to contact the Driver to re-release doors as per a 220/221.

 

[Rich McLean]

Having read this thread and seen the process in operation, I have to admit to having some concerns about it.

1) What would happen if after the guard has given the close doors signal a passenger runs to the train and gets trapped in the doors? On every other train with power doors the guard can simply press the release doors buttons and the doors will re-open but how can he/she do that when they don't have such buttons at the local door?

2) Why is it ok for the driver to release the doors on a 22x based on him being able to see from inside the cab that the train has stopped in the correct place but not for guards on other trains to do the same without stepping on to the platform?

1) Intercom on the panel - We can instantly speak to the driver and inform him/her to open the doors. This can be done in a matter of seconds, albeit not quite as quick as doing it ourselfs, but that down to the design.

2) It's not laid down in procedure. It would take more time, as you would have to wait for the train to stop, and then turn the key, open the door, an give the driver a signal to open the rest. Infact I am not 100% sure if you can even open the Local door separately before the rest are opened (apart from the egress handle), any other guards have done this?

 

[LowLevel]

On our TOC it is at the guard's discretion whether to open the local door first or just release them all, with the caveat that if you do the latter and the train is not correctly platformed it's a serious operating incident. Generally my route knowledge influences how I work - if it's a station I call at regularly with a platform longer than the train and we stop in the same place I release the train doors immediately as it's far quicker. If it's a shorter platform or I'm operating the doors from an unusual position, I check by opening the local door first.

 

[edwin_m]

2) Why is it ok for the driver to release the doors on a 22x based on him being able to see from inside the cab that the train has stopped in the correct place but not for guards on other trains to do the same without stepping on to the platform?

Perhaps because the driver is always at the front of the train, and can see that the front has stopped at the correct car stop board. The guard may be at any of the doors door down the train that has a door panel, and unless at the rear door can't see where the either end of the train is without getting out and looking.

 

[NX]

My TOC insists on Gusrds opening their local door. Stepping onto the platform to ensure the train is fully platformed before releasing the passenger doors.
Insist read demand, if you don't, your in serious trouble !

You can't always rely on the driver stopping at the correct Car Stop, especially if you've got more on than normal or the stopping pattern has been ammended at the last minute.

We've a number of stations at which we call with 2+ vehicles (platforms only fit for two), I local door only at least stations as our units don't have fancy SDO equipment.

London Midland for example and their 350 units have a basic SDO or Unit Deselct which automatcially locks the whole unit behind the cab that the SDO is selected in.

NX

 

[brick60000]

Thanks for you replies! It is a very interesting procedure

Does anyone know why this was chosen over other 'conventional' methods at the time?

Also, am I right in assuming that as soon as the TM's local door is shut they cannot reopen it (if the others have been closed and they have manually pressed the door close button)?

Thanks,
Brick60000

 

[BestWestern]

Quite simply, the railway has made a concerted effort particularly since privatisation to reduce, water down and generally elbow out the role of Guards, and the Voyager method of working is a good illlustration of this. The system of the Guard giving a bell/buzzer code to the Driver is merely a token gesture offering to keep the RMT happy, in reality the Driver could simply be given a 'CD' indication in the RA box as per full DOO.

Drivers releasing the doors is arguably the bigger of the safety issues. As any DOO Driver will generally admit off the record, it is a regular event for door incidents to occur simply because a Driver who is stopping a train and immediately releasing doors has a minimal window of opportunity to realise if they have made an error, whereas the Guard checking his train is correctly platformed will, in most cases, have that opportunity to identify a problem, particularly where local door procedure is mandatory. I would expect less of an issue with the far less frequent stopping pattern of a long distance train, but all the same it remains a needless safety compromise.

Ultimately, it's all about the misguided holy grail of wiping out Guards to save millions and make the world a better place (it won't, and it won't....)

 

[NX]

I've seen a number of locations that our friends up front need a reminder sign clearly stating "DOORS RELEASED RIGHT HAND SIDE" just ahead of the stop board.

I reckon if Guards needed doors released "t'other side" reminders we'd be DOO'd in weeks. Only joking our lever pusher friends

NX