Voting intentions (quick poll)

[Howardh]

Exactly. Good.

It might force political parties to work more collegiately and would be a more inclusive system, I feel. But I recognise that's a niche view in the UK and likely will be for the rest of my life.

I think PR would introduce single-issue parties who today wouldn't get a look in. Think that would be good, too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How many people on this website think that "the percentage share of the vote" in the poll attached to this quiz will be in any way reflective of the percentages actually made, when all the results of the seats contested are known?

 

[northwichcat]

How many people on this website think that "the percentage share of the vote" in the poll attached to this quiz will be in any way reflective of the percentages actually made, when all the results of the seats contested are known?

Probably no-one because most people will accept that a poll on a rail forum is not representative of the entire population.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think PR would introduce single-issue parties who today wouldn't get a look in. Think that would be good, too.

This is another reason to be thankful for not having PR.

 

[DarloRich]

How many people on this website think that "the percentage share of the vote" in the poll attached to this quiz will be in any way reflective of the percentages actually made, when all the results of the seats contested are known?

not at all - I am fairly certain May will win

 

[Y961 XBU]

Unless there is a lot of tactical voting then May has got this

 

[SS4]

I marked none of the boxes and wrote "intentionally spoiled ballot, PR now" on it.

My hope is that if enough people who feel disenfranchised by FPTP did exactly that (and not comedy spoils like drawing cocks or putting write-in candidates), there'd be some sort of inquiry into why so many people were spoiling their ballot, which may, in time, lead to some sort of acceptance that people didn't like the system.

Many people view spoiled ballots as a waste of time, but it is no less or more a waste of time as voting for anyone but the Tories in the Woking constituency.

Dream on. PR will only be introduced when it benefits the party in power

After all, a more representative voting system is too expensive...

 

[GusB]

This is another reason to be thankful for not having PR.

Perhaps if you lived north of the border you'd be thankful for PR. I don't think the Conservatives would have done as well in the Scottish Parliament elections without it.

If we had some form of PR at Westminster, we also may not be looking at the situation where they have recently had a single MP and, in the case of 1997, none at all. It pleases me to have as few Tory MPs as possible, but I accept the fact that are a great many voters with no representation at all.

It wouldn't have pleased me to see UKIP returning MPs to parliament but hey, that's democracy. It is ludicrous where the Greens can get one MP, yet a party with a significantly higher number of votes get none.

 

[D365]

How many people on this website think that "the percentage share of the vote" in the poll attached to this quiz will be in any way reflective of the percentages actually made, when all the results of the seats contested are known?

Can election polls in recent years be relied upon generally?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Probably no-one because most people will accept that a poll on a rail forum is not representative of the entire population.

I don't think any online poll is reliable because they must be vulnerable to vote rigging. My local newspaper would get 500 likes for comments from certain people within 30 minutes of the comment being posted, till they clamped down on it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think you misread. Here's what I said:

Spoiled ballot as I live in a safe Tory seat and won't vote Labour. I'd rather see a more representative system of voting.

I intentionally spoiled my ballot this morning. I'd never vote Tory, ever. This election I did not wish to vote Labour because of concerns over their personnel - I am not "anti-Labour" at heart. In fact I yearn for a properly competent Labour party, though I have to hand it to Corbyn for conducting a sensible and very industrious campaign despite all my other reservations.

My seat is one of the safest Tory seats (2015: Tories, circa 30,000, Labour 2nd on circa 8,000) - hence no matter which of the non-Tories I voted for my vote would count for very little indeed. The spoiled ballot is my only way of expressing my dissatisfaction at the winner-takes-all system we currently have, and the democratic deficit that system leaves on a local level.

Perhaps I did, apologies. I took the "won't vote Labour" as a dislike of the Labour Movement rather than a recognition that it would probably be a wasted vote. The idea of many people spoiling their ballots in a similar way is a nice way to imagine forcing change, but it'd need to be widely publicised in the weeks and days up to the election in order to gain any traction whatsoever.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps if you lived north of the border you'd be thankful for PR. I don't think the Conservatives would have done as well in the Scottish Parliament elections without it.

If we had some form of PR at Westminster, we also may not be looking at the situation where they have recently had a single MP and, in the case of 1997, none at all. It pleases me to have as few Tory MPs as possible, but I accept the fact that are a great many voters with no representation at all.

It wouldn't have pleased me to see UKIP returning MPs to parliament but hey, that's democracy. It is ludicrous where the Greens can get one MP, yet a party with a significantly higher number of votes get none.

That's one of the downsides of PR: (Oh my Lord, I'm agreeing with Paul on a political point... NURSE! ) Namely that some seriously unpleasant individuals and parties may get representation. The assortment of right-wing nutjobs that ran in the Batley & Spen by-election which was only needed because another right-wing nutjob had decided to murder the brilliant MP we had previously, was a warning there.

The Conservatives themselves have been rather clumsy round here too: their candidate making a quip about how they "haven't murdered anyone..." being one of the lowlights.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Unless there is a lot of tactical voting then May has got this

I still think May will get this, but I do think there is going to be a lot more tactical voting than before. Granted this is just based on people I know, but there is a hell of a lot more talk of it than there was 2 years ago.

 

[Y961 XBU]

I still think May will get this, but I do think there is going to be a lot more tactical voting than before. Granted this is just based on people I know, but there is a hell of a lot more talk of it than there was 2 years ago.

All down my facebook all i see is people say they voted Labour, seems if it was just down to who i have on facebook this country would be alright

 

[Tetchytyke]

Dream on. PR will only be introduced when it benefits the party in power

Or all the parties in opposition.

Of course FPTP suits two main parties entirely down to the ground, because they know that these things are cyclical and they'll get their time in the sun again. It narrows their competition to one party.

Spoiling a ballot is a waste of time, because no record is ever made of why it is spoiled or what the message behind it is. You just get filed in a box with all the bozos who can't complete a ballot paper properly. Hell, even the person counting it probably won't read what you've got to say.

Namely that some seriously unpleasant individuals and parties may get representation. The assortment of right-wing nutjobs that ran in the Batley & Spen by-election which was only needed because another right-wing nutjob had decided to murder the brilliant MP we had previously, was a warning there.

You set a floor, below which you don't get any seats. Perhaps 5% of total votes cast.

FPTP elections increase the presence of the nasty and the weird because FPTP makes it so easy to get their voice heard. You only have to persuade a small number of people of your position. Not that either of them were weird or nasty, quite the opposite, but we saw that most famously with Martin Bell, whose entire position was that he wasn't Neil Hamilton, and with Dr Richard Taylor who became an independent MP in Kidderminster on a platform about saving the local hospital.

There are pros and cons to PR. I prefer the German system, where there are constituency MPs and then the seats are topped up, but rather than have a party list I would have the "losers" with the biggest vote share dropped into Parliament, so it would also reward those who come close in local constituencies.

 

[richw]

All down my facebook all i see is people say they voted Labour, seems if it was just down to who i have on facebook this country would be alright

Or is that because labour supporters are the ones who shout off?

 

[najaB]

This is another reason to be thankful for not having PR.

First past the post, single candidate constituencies is an inherently unrepresentative system. I'm not sure what the perfect alternative system is (if there is one) but PR isn't the anathema to democracy that it's made out to be.

 

[mikeg]

I voted Alan Avery, the Labour candidate in my pretty darn safe Tory seat. But then I'm a party member so it'd be indecent of me not to!

Interestingly, seen plenty of vote Labour posters around, a few LibDem ones but no Tory ones. Hopefully Labour's not just piling up support in 'unwinnable' seats.

 

[Intercity 225]

I'm centre-right and usually vote Conservative but I couldn't this time around because I'm a staunch pro-European and I think Brexit is a disaster. As such I was planning to vote Lib Dem but when it came to the crunch I couldn't vote for them either because of their severe lack of ambition. They had a golden opportunity to make headway in this election but failed because of their weak leader and insipid campaign.

As such I spoiled my ballot for the first (and hopefully only) time. Had some fun with it though - this is what I wrote over each candidate I had to choose from in Manchester Central:

Tories: No Brexit in my name
Labour: Economically insane
Lib Dem: Severely lacking ambition
Green: Nice but dim
UKIP: Not nice, still dim
Pirate Party: Bless

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm centre-right and usually vote Conservative but I couldn't this time around because I'm a staunch pro-European and I think Brexit is a disaster. As such I was planning to vote Lib Dem but when it came to the crunch I couldn't vote for them either because of their severe lack of ambition. They had a golden opportunity to make headway in this election but failed because of their weak leader and insipid campaign.

As such I spoiled my ballot for the first (and hopefully only) time. Had some fun with it though - this is what I wrote over each candidate I had to choose from in Manchester Central:

Tories: No Brexit in my name
Labour: Economically insane
Lib Dem: Severely lacking ambition
Green: Nice but dim
UKIP: Not nice, still dim
Pirate Party: Bless

I'd have voted for the Pirate Party. That's a proper protest vote, more effective than a spoiled ballot.

 

[cjmillsnun]

- Raising the 20p and 40p income tax thresholds

To be fair. These are Lib Dem policies (that the Tories claimed credit for after the coalition and then continued afterwards) they benefit everyone in work.

 

[Intercity 225]

I'd have voted for the Pirate Party. That's a proper protest vote, more effective than a spoiled ballot.

Got to admit I was tempted but they lost all credibility for me when I read their electoral leaflet. There was a heading titled "MANCHESTER COMES FIRST" (in capitals) but at the bottom of the same page it stated the flyer was "printed in Southend, Essex".

I couldn't bring myself to vote for hypocrisy

 

[alex17595]

Our Lib Dem candidate lives in Manchester. They must have been desperate.

 

[mikeg]

I'd have voted for the Pirate Party. That's a proper protest vote, more effective than a spoiled ballot.

Seconded. If you can't find someone that you really like to vote for, vote for those who you dislike the least. Also I stood in a (district) election before, and yes you are shown (though not necessarily read) and explained any spoilt ballots. Never seen the point of ballot spoiling, most candidates would disregard you as one of the 'green ink' brigade. Although it has to be said, the notion of most spoilt ballots being protests in my experience is misplaced. I've been to a few counts and the majority of spoilt ballots are because for some people filling in a ballot paper seems to be a complex task that they make a right mess of.

 

[Intercity 225]

Seconded. If you can't find someone that you really like to vote for, vote for those who you dislike the least. Also I stood in a (district) election before, and yes you are shown (though not necessarily read) and explained any spoilt ballots. Never seen the point of ballot spoiling, most candidates would disregard you as one of the 'green ink' brigade. Although it has to be said, the notion of most spoilt ballots being protests in my experience is misplaced. I've been to a few counts and the majority of spoilt ballots are because for some people filling in a ballot paper seems to be a complex task that they make a right mess of.

May I ask what the "green ink brigade" is please?

 

[mikeg]

People who write nasty, 'anti-political' grumpy letters to politicians for a hobby. You know, cause they resent their elected officials. OR at least that's what an MP in a former constituency of mine used to call them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Our Lib Dem candidate lives in Manchester. They must have been desperate.

Our Tory candidate lives in Chesham.

A local man for local issues.

 

[507021]

Our Lib Dem candidate lives in Manchester. They must have been desperate.

The Tory candidate for my area lives in Hertfordshire apparently.

I had to laugh.

 

[Intercity 225]

People who write nasty, 'anti-political' grumpy letters to politicians for a hobby. You know, cause they resent their elected officials. OR at least that's what an MP in a former constituency of mine used to call them.

Thanks for the clarification. And I'm definitely not one of those, I respect anyone that wins a ballot even if I don't share their political views. Just want them to get on with the job of representing the constituency as best they can.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

People who write nasty, 'anti-political' grumpy letters to politicians for a hobby. You know, cause they resent their elected officials. OR at least that's what an MP in a former constituency of mine used to call them.

Parker Quink Green Ink is still available to buy, in 57ml bottles, for those with refillable fountain pens.