Voting intentions (quick poll)

[northwichcat]

What needs to be remembered is both May and Corbyn are united in the view that taking the UK out of the single market would be a good thing, despite many businesses having serious concerns about that. Despite the Conservative claiming to be the pro-business party May has done nothing to ease the concerns over leaving the single market. The real opposition will be the Lib Dems, SNP, Greens and Plaid Cymru who all support remaining in the single market.

 

[Segedunum]

Well, it's my first time voting (at the ripe age of 18) and I'm voting Labour.

Theresa May has disgraced herself all the way through the election campaign, from not bothering to participate in any of the debates, to announcing policies such as revoking human rights and imposing Internet restrictions as if somehow we're all really supposed to like that idea.

Corbyn has a costed manifesto, while the Conservatives have a £2bn black hole in theirs, and so it's clear who's really "strong and stable" here. He's also promising that I won't have to be up to my eyes in debt once I finish university!

And, from a local perspective, my labour MP has been competent enough for the past 7 years, and I see no need to replace her with the Conservative alternative, a bloke who had Michael Gove delivering his leaflets which didn't contain a single actual policy on them, just attempts to smear the labour candidate and "I like Theresa May and Brexit!!" (not quite worded like that)

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

 

[cactustwirly]

Lib Dems, to achieve the impossible - to unseat Theresa May (she's my local MP).

 

[northwichcat]

No. Global macroeconomics and a UK economy that hadn't yet adjusted to the end of Empire explains that. The same would more that likely have happened under a Conservative government.

Indeed. The Conservatives keep pointing to the 2008 crash and blaming Labour for it but the reality is there was an equally big crash (taking in to account inflation) in the early 90s and their plan A for recovery under Norman Lamont failed miserably as he made the problem worse, which resulted in Major sacking Lamont and replacing him with Ken Clarke who had a proper plan which worked - something you can't say about Alistair Darling or George Osborne.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

....but yeah, proportion of debt v gdp is more important.

Indeed this is the truth of the matter. Otherwise we end in a situation that befell Greece and of their subsequent loan requirements....:roll:

To cheer you all up, like all good bookmakers who hedge their financial position should a shock result occur, my international brokers using all that is available these days in terms of electronic finance transfer (steering well clear of the now-unreliable Swiss financial institutions) have spread my financial assets already, should the unthinkable result occur in this British General Election.

 

[AlterEgo]

Here we have a perfect example of only seeing from 1979 onwards, with the usual Thatcher soundbites.

As I said, at the age of 72, I go back to the days fifteen years prior to that and to the days of Harold Wilson leading the Labour Party and the subsequent growing prevalence of extreme left wing Trades Union intransigence that followed on from that period to 1979. I am sure there are the usual wide-eyed Socialist believers on this website who would only see "social good" in the events that so occurred in the times of the infamous "Winter of Discontent".

But that doesn't make your viewpoint more valid or more balanced than people who don't happen to be 72 years old.

Anyway, if you want, why don't we look at the Tory record in the late 19th Century? I'm sure as you weren't alive then, your views on it - by your own logic - would be moot. And in any case, it's not relevant to the 2017 General Election any more than the guff you're going on about from 1976. Not relevant.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that despite the 2008 recession the 1997-2010 Labour government had a better record of keeping the country's spending under control compared to both Labour and Conservative governments before it.

The period from 1997-2010 saw a Labour Party under a Prime Minister who was totally different in seeing how Britain should react to world events of all types with a modern forward looking vision of Britain. That is why many Conservative voters allied themselves to his cause and vision.

Of course, such beliefs of that Blair vision caused "wailing and gnashing of teeth" amongst the "True Socialists Visionaries" who saw this as a total betrayal of their cause.

 

[bramling]

Who will you be voting for in tomorrow's general election and why?

Conservative.

Whilst their campaign has been awful and I have misgivings about the social care issue, on balance I feel the Conservatives are by far the most competent. I like May's Brexit strategy too.

Labour's team is simply awful - a real motley bunch, not just Corbyn but also the likes of Abbott and McDonnell. Absolutely no way I could even contemplate voting for these people. Meanwhile I think back to the disastrous Blair and Brown governments which I feel have done a lot of structural damage to this country, yet the current Labour offering is even worse. I can't believe how many youngsters are taken in by the promise of a spending bonanza - the money has to come from somewhere and the country is already in debt (thanks to Labour) and paying interest on that to this day.

Lib Dems are a joke, Greens are positively evil,and UKIP not standing in my constituency. So Conservatives it is.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But that doesn't make your viewpoint more valid or more balanced than people who don't happen to be 72 years old.

Anyway, if you want, why don't we look at the Tory record in the late 19th Century? I'm sure as you weren't alive then, your views on it - by your own logic - would be moot. And in any case, it's not relevant to the 2017 General Election any more than the guff you're going on about from 1976. Not relevant.

Now then, stop being facetious. I only went back 15 years from 1979 to 1964 when at that time I was 19 years of age and old enough to cast my vote.

You talk about the late 19th century and the Conservative Party record then (the Tories as a party had disbanded earlier that century), but make no mention of how you viewed the Liberal Party policies of that period of time.

 

[Merseysider]

I like May's Brexit strategy too.

What strategy?

 

[Tetchytyke]

What strategy?

 

[Howardh]

Labour for the first time. Don't like Corbyn, but do like our local candidate. Won't vote Tory (which I normally would do) as our Toryboy is a hard-Brexiter and I've had my EU Citizenship stolen from me; and to top it up all the garbage in the Tory tabloid press yesterday has cost them all three adult votes in these towers.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Interesting that the Lib Dems are getting close to 2nd in our poll..

 

[AlterEgo]

Now then, stop being facetious. I only went back 15 years from 1979 to 1964 when at that time I was 19 years of age and old enough to cast my vote.

You talk about the late 19th century and the Conservative Party record then (the Tories as a party had disbanded earlier that century), but make no mention of how you viewed the Liberal Party policies of that period of time.

My point is it doesn't matter because politics then isn't anything like politics is now. Understanding the Liberal party's politics of the mid 1960s isn't relevant to the 2017 election.

 

[bramling]

Labour for the first time. Don't like Corbyn, but do like our local candidate. Won't vote Tory (which I normally would do) as our Toryboy is a hard-Brexiter and I've had my EU Citizenship stolen from me; and to top it up all the garbage in the Tory tabloid press yesterday has cost them all three adult votes in these towers.

I don't understand why you would blame the Conservatives for the loss of your so-called EU citizenship. It was your fellow citizens who decided this in a referendum, and who voted for the party that promised to deliver this referendum in response to public pressure. Democracy at its very best. Indeed some prominent Conservatives at the time, not least the PM and his chancellor, were rather strongly in favour of remain.

 

[Merseysider]

Greens are positively evil

Without linking or referring to articles written by the Daily Mail or Daily Express, can you qualify this statement with some evidence please?

If indeed they are demonstrably evil then that would be news to me.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't understand why you would blame the Conservatives for the loss of your so-called EU citizenship. It was your fellow citizens who decided this in a referendum, and who voted for the party that promised to deliver this referendum in response to public pressure. Democracy at its very best. Indeed some prominent Conservatives at the time, not least the PM and his chancellor, were rather strongly in favour of remain.

Have you forgotten which party called for the referendum. Then decided to send out an official government booklet to every household saying why remaining in the EU is a good thing - the spending of government money on that angered some 'on the fence' people enough to get them to vote Leave. Then the campaigning saw lie after lie after lie - the biggest lie coming from Boris Johnson regarding £350m for the NHS, which some people have said swayed them to vote Leave. Then the same party said the ballot has to be respected, despite the public being poorly informed about the effects of leaving the EU by politicians - Farage kept telling us the UK could be like Norway if we voted Leave, yet May has ruled out that option.

If there had been a lie about hundreds of millions of pounds by the Remain said and Remain had won, then UKIP's popularity would have gone through the roof.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My point is it doesn't matter because politics then isn't anything like politics is now. Understanding the Liberal party's politics of the mid 1960s isn't relevant to the 2017 election.

May I respectfully request that you do not deliberately confuse matters, as it was your very own mention of Conservative policies in the late 19th century that caused me to ask why you did not make any mention of Liberal policies in the same time period. At no time have I ever made mention of the Liberal Party's politics in the mid 1960s, as you state in your posting above.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have you forgotten which party called for the referendum. Then decided to send out an official government booklet to every household saying why remaining in the EU is a good thing - the spending of government money on that angered some 'on the fence' people enough to get them to vote Leave. Then the campaigning saw lie after lie after lie - the biggest lie coming from Boris Johnson regarding £350m for the NHS, which some people have said swayed them to vote Leave. Then the same party said the ballot has to be respected, despite the public being poorly informed about the effects of leaving the EU by politicians - Farage kept telling us the UK could be like Norway if we voted Leave, yet May has ruled out that option.

Remind me how the very antithesis of all that the Conservative Party stands for, the RMT, suggested their expressed preference of a "Leave" vote in that referendum.

 

[northwichcat]

Remind me how the very antithesis of all that the Conservative Party stands for, the RMT, suggested their expressed preference of a "Leave" vote in that referendum.

You mean the one that objects to a British subsidiary of a German company winning a rail franchise but complains if a Canadian multinational with a manufacturing plant in Derby doesn't win a contract?

 

[AlterEgo]

May I respectfully request that you do not deliberately confuse matters, as it was your very own mention of Conservative policies in the late 19th century that caused me to ask why you did not make any mention of Liberal policies in the same time period. At no time have I ever made mention of the Liberal Party's politics in the mid 1960s, as you state in your posting above.

"Deliberately confuse matters"

My point was simply that it doesn't actually matter what happened A Very Long Time Ago, it's what the parties are promising now which actually matters.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Bit confused. Was that directed at me?

The first line was: You complained about our voting system (which I agree is far from perfect) but then say you'll either vote Conservative (a party whose very raison d'etre is to maintain the status quo) or spoil your ballot. That won't achieve anything productive and certainly won't prompt electoral reform.

A note for those planning to spoil their ballot though- there was a story in 2015 (which may have been apocryphal) about someone who drew a big penis and testicles on their voting paper. At the counting, as the "picture" was entirely within the box for one candidate, it was counted as a vote for that candidate, which I'd assume wasn't the intention of the er... artist!

 

[bussnapperwm]

I'm a Tory through and through.

 

[Darandio]

I'm a Tory through and through.

I'm sure there is a cream for that.

 

[AlterEgo]

The first line was: You complained about our voting system (which I agree is far from perfect) but then say you'll either vote Conservative (a party whose very raison d'etre is to maintain the status quo) or spoil your ballot.

I think you misread. Here's what I said:

Spoiled ballot as I live in a safe Tory seat and won't vote Labour. I'd rather see a more representative system of voting.

I intentionally spoiled my ballot this morning. I'd never vote Tory, ever. This election I did not wish to vote Labour because of concerns over their personnel - I am not "anti-Labour" at heart. In fact I yearn for a properly competent Labour party, though I have to hand it to Corbyn for conducting a sensible and very industrious campaign despite all my other reservations.

My seat is one of the safest Tory seats (2015: Tories, circa 30,000, Labour 2nd on circa 8,000) - hence no matter which of the non-Tories I voted for my vote would count for very little indeed. The spoiled ballot is my only way of expressing my dissatisfaction at the winner-takes-all system we currently have, and the democratic deficit that system leaves on a local level.

 

[Barn]

What did you do to spoil it, out of interest?

 

[DarloRich]

I think you misread. Here's what I said:

Spoiled ballot as I live in a safe Tory seat and won't vote Labour. I'd rather see a more representative system of voting.

I intentionally spoiled my ballot this morning. I'd never vote Tory, ever. This election I did not wish to vote Labour because of concerns over their personnel - I am not "anti-Labour" at heart. In fact I yearn for a properly competent Labour party, though I have to hand it to Corbyn for conducting a sensible and very industrious campaign despite all my other reservations.

Interestingly anything written on a spoilt ballot is read to the candidates!

 

[AlterEgo]

What did you do to spoil it, out of interest?

I marked none of the boxes and wrote "intentionally spoiled ballot, PR now" on it.

My hope is that if enough people who feel disenfranchised by FPTP did exactly that (and not comedy spoils like drawing cocks or putting write-in candidates), there'd be some sort of inquiry into why so many people were spoiling their ballot, which may, in time, lead to some sort of acceptance that people didn't like the system.

Many people view spoiled ballots as a waste of time, but it is no less or more a waste of time as voting for anyone but the Tories in the Woking constituency.

 

[northwichcat]

I marked none of the boxes and wrote "intentionally spoiled ballot, PR now" on it.

My hope is that if enough people who feel disenfranchised by FPTP did exactly that (and not comedy spoils like drawing cocks or putting write-in candidates), there'd be some sort of inquiry into why so many people were spoiling their ballot, which may, in time, lead to some sort of acceptance that people didn't like the system.

Many people view spoiled ballots as a waste of time, but it is no less or more a waste of time as voting for anyone but the Tories in the Woking constituency.

Under PR it would be unlikely that either the Conservatives or Labour would ever get a majority again. When Nick Clegg tried to get PR on the agenda and got told by Cameron he'd compromise with a referendum on AV I think that was as close as we're ever going to get.

 

[AlterEgo]

Under PR it would be unlikely that either the Conservatives or Labour would ever get a majority again.

Exactly. Good.

It might force political parties to work more collegiately and would be a more inclusive system, I feel. But I recognise that's a niche view in the UK and likely will be for the rest of my life.