Virgin Voyager

[JJUK]

Hi,
I take it all the Virgin Voyager's have been sold to X Country. I saw many Voyagers a couple month ago and all the virgin logo's have been taken off?

Are there any still in the ownership of Virgin?
also what happened as he sold them all to X Country?

Thanks, JJ

EDIT: oops sorry i have just realised this is suposed to be in Traction & Rolling Stock. Could a Mod / Admin please and Sorry

 

[Callufrax]

Hi JJ,

The Voyagers were never actually owned by Virgin Trains. Rather, they were leased from Angel Trains - a rolling stock leasing company. The 220s have moved over to CrossCountry, along with some 221s.

As the branding and nameplates are property of Virgin Trains, these obviously needed to be removed. Some 221s which went to CrossCountry, will go back to Virgin Trains, and have their names re-applied, along with the Virgin branding.

 

[Coronation 229.]

There are quite a few 221 sets running on the WCML at the moment for Virgin and I have heard there are more to come back.

 

[Guinness]

Most of the TOCs (Train Operating Companies e.g. XC) lease stock of Porterbrook, HSBC Rail or Angel Trains there are some other very smaller companies, usually big equity firms or Banks. These companies are called ROSCOs in the industry. However they are making far too much money IMHO, one of them posted profits of something ridiculous like £350m given we're paying more and more for fares. The government have launched an inquiry into this but as usual it will take a few years spend millions on that itself and then say "Nope, everything is fine".

Wikipedia will explain all :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROSCOs#Leasing_services

 

[JJUK]

Thanks for that Callufrax. I understand that now.
The pendolino's ... are they leased as well or do they belong to Virgin?

 

[P156KWJ]

leased from Angel. It's only companies like EWS that own their own stock mostly. For example, EWS own all the class 60s.

 

[JJUK]

Thanks Sulzer25,
I never knew that. I actually thought Virgin and big companies like that would have owned their own stock.

 

[Bayum]

Virgin own "some" of their rolling stock don't they??

Like a few Pendolino's, and a few Voyagers?

 

[P156KWJ]

All of the class 390s are owned by Angel, and all of Virgin's SuperVoyagers are owned by Halifax Bank of Scotland. All Virgin's class 57/3s are owned by Porterbrook

 

[LilLoaf]

Virgin has also made a right mess of referbishing the voyagers for work on the WCML. All seats now have tables, the result less seats on train that had to few seats to start with. Couch formations that make no sence, i was on one last week it went, A, D, C, B, F.

The only time when the annoucement about where everything is on the train came in usefull.

Madness total madness

 

[Techniquest]

As others have said, all of the 220s (220001 - 220034) are now with AXC. With the 221s, it's slightly different, in that Virgin West Coast currently use 221101 - 221113, with 221114 - 221118 with AXC. 114 - 118 are currently due to have returned to VWC, whether they have done I don't know. 221119 - 221140 are with AXC. Finally, 221141 - 144 are with VWC.

 

[Pumbaa]

Yup - they went as planned on the TT change Techniquest. Leaving XCT with a unit short!

 

[Techniquest]

Yep, got the confirmation of that when 221114 headed for Birmingham at Carlisle yesterday afternoon.

I wonder what the state of affairs is with AXC now.

 

[Pumbaa]

Bloody shambles I expect! I heard they were putting a stay on the shop refurb until they had a full fleet (ie the last HST).

 

[voyagerdude220]

One AXC 5-car 221 set has already been fully refurbised, and relased back into service, shop-less, with the bike space moved into where the shop used to be, and a trolley bay positioned into where the bike space used to be located, towards the very rear of Coach F.

Or did you mean that the alterations to the Cross Country sets have been paused, until XC have a full fleet?

 

[devon_metro]

One AXC 5-car 221 set has already been fully refurbised, and relased back into service, shop-less, with the bike space moved into where the shop used to be, and a trolley bay positioned into where the bike space used to be located, towards the very rear of Coach F.

Or did you mean that the alterations to the Cross Country sets have been paused, until XC have a full fleet?

IT was not fully refurbished. The rest of the train is still in the awful state that Virgin built them in!

 

[TEW]

IT was not fully refurbished. The rest of the train is still in the awful state that Virgin built them in!

Does anybody know if they will ever be refurbished internally? They are in a really bad condition now.

 

[Pumbaa]

Or did you mean that the alterations to the Cross Country sets have been paused, until XC have a full fleet?

Yes I meant that!

Does anybody know if they will ever be refurbished internally? They are in a really bad condition now.

Speaking to a TM the other week whilst heading to York, he seemed to be of the opinion that a refurb internally was planned for once they had the TT sorted out and al stock was operational, and they could spare the set out, so once it'd had the shop removed it went straight into refurb. However, speaking to another one on Monday last, he said that they weren't going to be bothering until the shops had been done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thinking about it, Mumrar, can you confirm any of this?

 

[slick]

There are quite a few 221 sets running on the WCML at the moment for Virgin and I have heard there are more to come back.

The london euston to hollyhead via chester service is run by a 221 set and 221x2 in peak. One was a really smokey set today choked the LM platforms!

 

[37401]

Virgin are getting some of there voyagers back from XC as there getting HST`s in if you see a Voyager in VT livery its a 99.9% chance itll be a Super voyager

 

[voyagerdude220]

We have already had 221114-221118 returned to us, and they are all already back in service with us, here at VWC

 

[Waverley125]

Are there any Voyager-perated services out of Euston on the VHF? Was at willesden junction yesterday & saw one going southbound at about quarter to 1.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Chester services are aren't they?

 

[P156KWJ]

thought they were soley Birmingham-Edinburgh?

 

[voyagerdude220]

No, not at all..

Virgin Super Voyagers do indeed form Birmingham to Edinburgh/Glasgow services, but also, as rightly mentioned earlier in the thread, form London Euston to Chester/Wrexham General (once daily)/Holyhead services.

All services along the North Wales Coast are formed of Super Voyagers now, after the December TT change, apart from one return working over the weekend, which is still formed of a 57+390 between Crewe and Holyhead, to retain knowledge of the Pendos to train crew.

Feel Free to point out any errors which i may have accidently included

 

[Techniquest]

Sounds right to me. Don't forget beyond Chester it's a ridiculously poor service to Llandudno Junction, Bangor (one service even terminates there!) and Holyhead with Virgin now. Mind, it's hourly to Chester out of Euston which is nice.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I wouldn't mind the same post-VHF frequency on the Preston/Glasgow route, compared to before, if VT hadn't increased prices north of Preston to obscene levels.. I used to get either £14/£24 or £34 singles.. now it is £55-£65 minimum each way!

Thats off topic however..

Wales doesn't seem to have done very well, with the VHF TT either..

 

[Techniquest]

Well aye, nor has Crewe really, hourly to Chester or beyond, hourly to Manchester and an hourly 221 to Edinburgh/Glasgow. Considering how much more there was before VHF, I'm not impressed.

 

[JJUK]

Virgin are getting some of there voyagers back from XC as there getting HST`s in if you see a Voyager in VT livery its a 99.9% chance itll be a Super voyager

Whats the difference between Super Voyagers and Normal Voyagers?

 

[Mintona]

Super Voyagers can tilt, normal ones can't.