Virgin Voyager news

[MCR247]

And the lease was probably for certain length of time etc like a contract

 

[Voyager 2093]

This just in: Chiltern Railways acquires 2-car class 221 for use on Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham route.

You being serious?

 

[MCR247]

Obviously :roll:

 

[route:oxford]

Anyone can argue that XC should have more trains ( including many who believe that 180s should go to XC).

It's easy to believe that the 180s should go to XC...

Unfortunately, it's been pointed out on here before that the 180s won't fit through the New Street tunnels.

(I'm not sure why they won't fit though... Too fat, too tall, too long?)

 

[Zoe]

If XC gained extra Voyagers I expect they would use them so that HSTs could be withdrawn rather than using them to run double Voyager diagrams. The Voyagers are cheaper to run than the HSTs.

 

[Voyager 2093]

Obviously :roll:

I'm baffled why would Chiltern need Voyagers for that route?

 

[MCR247]

He wasn't serious :roll:

 

[Voyager 2093]

He wasn't serious :roll:

Oh right. But no need for the rolling eyes seriously.

 

[MCR247]

Wasn't it pretty obvious?

 

[Voyager 2093]

Wasn't it pretty obvious?

No.That's why I asked.

 

[tbtc]

It's easy to believe that the 180s should go to XC...

Unfortunately, it's been pointed out on here before that the 180s won't fit through the New Street tunnels.

(I'm not sure why they won't fit though... Too fat, too tall, too long?)

I'm not sure - 180s seem to cope everywhere else in the country they have tried to run - there's a narrow tunnel around Chorley IIRC which they pass through daily (there was suspicion that 390s wouldn't be able to do it on WCML drags IIRC)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They would use the HSTs more, but as they are on dry lease they have to pay for maintenance. I don't think they do with voyagers

Yup.

Its a bit like the Voyagers are a car which they have paid for (so only pay marginal costs to run), and a HST is a taxi which they pay the full cost for using each time they do so.

Bad example maybe, but its not as simple as some think

 

[YorkshireBear]

will there ever be a way for them to lease them without that happening?

 

[TDK]

Wasn't it pretty obvious?

Now DB own both companies I can see why your "joke" was taken seriously

 

[ainsworth74]

will there ever be a way for them to lease them without that happening?

Don't see how unless they buy them outright (which I'm sure would cause the DfT to have a fit they don't like that sort of thing) or if the ROSCO decides to offer them on without maintenance charges, which I can't see happening.

 

[MCR247]

Now DB own both companies I can see why your "joke" was taken seriously

Virgin and DB?

 

[Zoe]

Virgin and DB?

I think the other person is referring to the fact that DB own both Chiltern and Cross Country.

 

[MCR247]

But it was about Virgin 221s

 

[sprinterguy]

It's easy to believe that the 180s should go to XC...

Unfortunately, it's been pointed out on here before that the 180s won't fit through the New Street tunnels.

(I'm not sure why they won't fit though... Too fat, too tall, too long?)

It's just the tightly curved tunnel onto the Cross City line that is a problem (Unless the tunnel on the Camp Hill line is problematic too?), suggesting that the Adelante carriages are either too fat or too long. There has been at least one 180 through New Street, but only through the tunnels for the Coventry-Wolves line.

 

[87015]

It's just the tightly curved tunnel onto the Cross City line that is a problem (Unless the tunnel on the Camp Hill line is problematic too?), suggesting that the Adelante carriages are either too fat or too long. There has been at least one 180 through New Street, but only through the tunnels for the Coventry-Wolves line.

I'm pretty sure 175s had a turn at one time which went empty around the Lifford curve to get it out of New St for an hour, which suggests it wouldn't be too hard to clear 180s if you actually wanted to.

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm pretty sure 175s had a turn at one time which went empty around the Lifford curve to get it out of New St for an hour, which suggests it wouldn't be too hard to clear 180s if you actually wanted to.

Yeah it's probably the case that there just isn't a need to clear them for that route so it hasn't been done.

Going a bit off topic, but sticking with the theme of Crosscountry rolling stock deployment that this thread has slipped into, I would have said that if XC were to have all 14 Adelantes foisted upon them, put them on the Manchester to Bournemouth runs; There seem to be just enough trains to allow complete 180 operation of this route: They could be maintained at Alstom's purpose built depot for the mechanically similar 175s at Chester and wouldn't have to negotiate any of the tunnels surrounding New Street that they are not passed for as those trains run via Coventry. BUT I think the Manchester to South Coast and South West diagrams are shared, not self contained, so there'd end up being a mix of 180s and Voyagers on both routes.

A distinctly non-Voyagery thought, but there you go.

 

[tbtc]

Going a bit off topic, but sticking with the theme of Crosscountry rolling stock deployment that this thread has slipped into, I would have said that if XC were to have all 14 Adelantes foisted upon them, put them on the Manchester to Bournemouth runs; There seem to be just enough trains to allow complete 180 operation of this route

We need to find a suitable route to foist this strange number of units onto. Something like what you've suggested sounds right for them.

 

[MCR247]

Maybe if you put them on the MML and gave the cascaded 222s to XC?

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely that would just complicate things unduly for EMT who right now have just two types of train working their long distance services? Granted it's going to complicate things where ever they end up, but it seems a bit silly to try and fix something that doesn't need fixing with regards to the 222s on the MML. Sprinterguy's idea of putting them onto a self contained route is probably the best idea, if one can be found of course.

 

[MCR247]

But I can't think of many self contained routes :?

What about putting some on ATWs 175 long distance routes, and then fitting some 175s with ETRMS and replacing 158s with them?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely that would just complicate things unduly for EMT who right now have just two types of train working their long distance services? Granted it's going to complicate things where ever they end up, but it seems a bit silly to try and fix something that doesn't need fixing with regards to the 222s on the MML. Sprinterguy's idea of putting them onto a self contained route is probably the best idea, if one can be found of course.

If there was more, they could replace HSTs

 

[ainsworth74]

If there was more, they could replace HSTs

There's only 14 180s, how many HSTs do EMT need daily? The other problem would be that a 5 car 180 is quite a step down in capacity from 2+8 HST.

 

[MCR247]

Well I meant more if there was enough they could indirectly replace them, like 180s cascade 222s of slow trains and they double up to replace HSTs, but I doubt there is enough.

EMT probably need about 10 HSTs in service daily

 

[YorkshireBear]

so there would need to be 20 180's to replace 20 shorts formations of 222's :/ shame

but at moment all 180's will be accounted for soon so :/

 

[222001]

All but 5 of the 180s are in use with HT and GC though...

 

[starrymarkb]

why not get them on normal lease then :/

They are on a normal lease...

Virgin however took the Voyagers on a lease that included maintainence by the manufacturer, therefore everything is in one monthly payment.

That deal expires next year. Then the Voyagers revert to a normal lease and it is down to XC to maintain them, either at their own depots or on a Pay as You Go at Central Rivers

 

[tbtc]

They are on a normal lease...

Virgin however took the Voyagers on a lease that included maintainence by the manufacturer, therefore everything is in one monthly payment.

That deal expires next year. Then the Voyagers revert to a normal lease and it is down to XC to maintain them, either at their own depots or on a Pay as You Go at Central Rivers

If this expires next year then presumably this means there would no longer be a (big) difference between the running costs of XC Voyagers and of XC HSTs?