Virgin Voyager news

[Railway]

http://rail-news.com/2010/11/16/virgin-to-eliminate-four-car-super-voyagers/

 

[387star]

Interesting. Good news in so far as a 5 car voyager is always better than a 4!

They could couple the two spare driving cars together to make a mini voyager!

 

[YesToHS2]

They could couple the two spare driving cars together to make a mini voyager!

Would look like a 125mph 2 car class 175.

It seems to makes sense, as they were only stand-by sets anyway.

 

[Zoe]

They could couple the two spare driving cars together to make a mini voyager!

With half of the train First Class.

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this...

But if I were in the process of considering creating a HEDEMU, I'd probably need to release at least one Voyager set to the manufacturers in order for them to trial a pantograph set. Two driving units would probably be quite adequate.

But in the meantime...

We can have hours of fun discussing the potential for a 2+5 unit splitting/joining somewhere instead of wasting it in warm-store!

Can I start the ball rolling by suggesting running the two car unit from Perth to Edinburgh (via Stirling) to give Mr Soutars home town a direct link to Birmingham!

There is also potential for hours of debate over which "spare" EMU pantograph coach could be refitted to connect/couple to the Voyager units and run at up to 125mph on the mainline (not tilt enabled) in order to test the theory before production of the correct unit commences.




(I'd guess only one shop will be open at any time in the new double-shop Voyager)

 

[387star]

Do these trains still stink of raw sewage or has this problem been ironed out?

Is there a major shortage of luggage space? Crosscountry increased theres

 

[MCR247]

Do these trains still stink of raw sewage or has this problem been ironed out?

Is there a major shortage of luggage space? Crosscountry increased theres

To stop the smell something has to be done every certain length of time. Virgin keep doing it to prevent the smell.
XC did it once.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting. XC don't have the same issues with mixed 4 and 5 car fleet, why not transfer the power cars to XC? Take two 5 car units down to 4, and provide an extra 4 car - all things being equal run another doubled up service somewhere...

 

[bengley]

This just in: Chiltern Railways acquires 2-car class 221 for use on Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham route.

 

[scotsman]

Interesting. XC don't have the same issues with mixed 4 and 5 car fleet, why not transfer the power cars to XC? Take two 5 car units down to 4, and provide an extra 4 car - all things being equal run another doubled up service somewhere...

XC have so many that it would be impossible to do. 220 units couldn't run with 221 coaches and vice versa. So, a few 4 car 221s doesn't cause to much trouble in the grand scheme of things, in reality it just means that there is no coach which is fully unreserved.

 

[MCR247]

Interesting. XC don't have the same issues with mixed 4 and 5 car fleet, why not transfer the power cars to XC? Take two 5 car units down to 4, and provide an extra 4 car - all things being equal run another doubled up service somewhere...

That's a good idea, give the 2 driving cars to XC, make 2 221s 4 car, and put the 2 coaches into the other 221. Shame it won't happen

 

[class156]

XC have so many that it would be impossible to do. 220 units couldn't run with 221 coaches and vice versa. So, a few 4 car 221s doesn't cause to much trouble in the grand scheme of things, in reality it just means that there is no coach which is fully unreserved.

Surely they 220 and 221 carriges would be interchangeable as XC have disabled the tilt function on the 221s.

 

[scotsman]

Surely they 220 and 221 carriges would be interchangeable as XC have disabled the tilt function on the 221s.

The bogies are completely different

 

[jopsuk]

XC have so many that it would be impossible to do. 220 units couldn't run with 221 coaches and vice versa. So, a few 4 car 221s doesn't cause to much trouble in the grand scheme of things, in reality it just means that there is no coach which is fully unreserved.

XC run 220s coupled to 221s a lot- and have a single 4-car 221 at the moment (there were 4 originally). As they don't use the tilt function, to them, a four-car 221 is fully interchangeable (in operations terms) with a 220.

Still don't understand why the North Wales 221s were built as 4 car in the first place. Another stunning bit of short-sighted rolling stock specification.

 

[Failed Unit]

That's a good idea, give the 2 driving cars to XC, make 2 221s 4 car, and put the 2 coaches into the other 221. Shame it won't happen

To me the other missed opportunity here is to swap 3x virgin 4 car Voyagers with 2x 5 car XC voyagers. That way we don't have 2 coaches gathering dust. Virgin have what they want and XC gain overall. They may be able to run another double voyager for example.

Don't know how practical it would be to renable the tilt on the XC sets and retrofit the shops however.

 

[swt_passenger]

To me the other missed opportunity here is to swap 3x virgin 4 car Voyagers with 2x 5 car XC voyagers. That way we don't have 2 coaches gathering dust. Virgin have what they want and XC gain overall. They may be able to run another double voyager for example.

That achieves the same numerical change as my proposal above, but means you have a total of 22 vehicles to modify or relivery, rather than 4.

 

[jopsuk]

Your plan (swt passenger) means just disabling two carriages worth of tilt, rather than re-enabling ten, and no shops to be refitted.

 

[swt_passenger]

XC have so many that it would be impossible to do. 220 units couldn't run with 221 coaches and vice versa. So, a few 4 car 221s doesn't cause to much trouble in the grand scheme of things, in reality it just means that there is no coach which is fully unreserved.

You would't have a mix of units and coaches. XC would take a coach each out of two of their 221s, and stick them between the two ex Virgin driving cars.

XC would end up with a total of 4 x 4 car 221s, as they already have 1, giving them a net gain of two vehicles but one additional four car unit.

 

[Crossforth]

With all this stock shortage and overcrowding, a two car voyager running round (semi permanently coupled to something else of course) is service with Virgin or XC would be a good idea as it relieves over crowding slightly and you could always declassify first class if needs be

 

[Failed Unit]

Problem with that is the extra staff needed for a non corridor linked train. Otherwise it will be full of fare dodgers!

 

[Crossforth]

Problem with that is the extra staff needed for a non corridor linked train. Otherwise it will be full of fare dodgers!

Fair point. That's a shame but I suppose it's up to Virgin.

 

[Invincibles]

Maybe they could run the 2 car from Blackpool to London

Another option would be to make Crewe - Chester Virgin and then ATW could use the unit they have on that route somewhere else. But I suppose that would upset quite a lot of people

 

[sprinterguy]

Swap the standard class driving carriage from the spare pair for a first class driving car out of one of the five carriage units: Result, one five carriage Vomiter of all standard class seating which is semi-permanently coupled to the pair of first class driving carriages. First class passengers have their very own exclusive two carriages separate from the standard class accommodation and you don’t need any extra staff as first class has its’ own attendant.

 

[route:oxford]

Swap the standard class driving carriage from the spare pair for a first class driving car out of one of the five carriage units: Result, one five carriage Vomiter of all standard class seating which is semi-permanently coupled to the pair of first class driving carriages. First class passengers have their very own exclusive two carriages separate from the standard class accommodation and you don’t need any extra staff as first class has its’ own attendant.

Oh god no.

I don't think I could cope the with endless threads of...

"I happened to get on the wrong portion with my advance ticket and was surcharged because I could not walk through the train".

or

"Should Virgin declassify the Vestibules of the two car 1st Class unit"

 

[90019]

Oh god no.

I don't think I could cope the with endless threads of...

"I happened to get on the wrong portion with my advance ticket and was surcharged because I could not walk through the train".

If they put plenty of notices on and around the doors, I doubt anyone would be able to claim they didn't know.

 

[Geezertronic]

Oh god no.

I don't think I could cope the with endless threads of...

"I happened to get on the wrong portion with my advance ticket and was surcharged because I could not walk through the train".

They would probably do the same thing as they do when 2 x 221s run from Euston where they split at Chester, one going to Holyhead and the other to Wrexham. The automated announcements and signage at Euston state which portion goes where and the matrix screens on the doors also state which portion goes where as well.

 

[TDK]

When VT lost the XC franchise was it not an agreement that the 5 car voyagers and the 4 car they kept had to be handed back in 2012 when the VT francise ended and XC were to reinstate HST'suntil this date?

 

[starrymarkb]

Can't see that happening! the 221s make up about 1/3 of the XC fleet, where would you find 20 odd HSTs?

 

[MCR247]

I think its the other way around?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah I think TDK is saying that in 2012 VT were supposed to hand over the Voyagers they have left to XC not the other way round.